Apogee 800 toslink trhu optical motu, very low input level on logic

aliberesco

Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2021
Location
Mexico
I just connected a new apogee 800 out (toslink) trhu optical motu in but in logic i can record every track with a very low input, do you know how to fix it? Thanks.
 

Boswell

Moderator
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Location
UK
Assuming this is the Apogee Rosetta 800, you should try to break the problem down to isolate what is causing the trouble. The Rosetta 800 is quite a complex unit, and can be configured through use of internal jumpers as well as multi-use push buttons on the front panel

The Rosetta 800 is an A-D (and D-A) converter box that needs to be driven with (and gives out) balanced line-level signals. What type of pre-amplifiers are you using to feed the 800 and have you got Tascam-compatible interconnection cabling?
 

aliberesco

Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2021
Location
Mexico
Assuming this is the Apogee Rosetta 800, you should try to break the problem down to isolate what is causing the trouble. The Rosetta 800 is quite a complex unit, and can be configured through use of internal jumpers as well as multi-use push buttons on the front panel

The Rosetta 800 is an A-D (and D-A) converter box that needs to be driven with (and gives out) balanced line-level signals. What type of pre-amplifiers are you using to feed the 800 and have you got Tascam-compatible interconnection cabling?
Hi, thanks for your help. I have a XLR to DB25 Snake cable, 8 channels of guitar, bass, mics, connected to apogee input, then I have it connected through a toslink cable to the motu 828 mk3 input, As the motu didn’t recognize then apogee I had to aggregate device on the Audio midi setup application, I configured the 8 channels that on the audio menu are from 17 to 24. Then I add every channel on logic, and it works, but the signal input of each is very weak, every instrument marks some level, but almost no sound at all, my monitors hardly sound so I have to record and normalize every track after that to get some level. Is there something wrong on my setup?
 

Boswell

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Apr 19, 2006
Location
UK
What piece(s) of equipment do you have between the microphones/guitars and the XLR connectors on the end of the cable to the Rosetta input?
 

Boswell

Moderator
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Location
UK
That's what I suspected. The Rosetta 800 needs to be fed with signals that have been through a pre-amplifier. This would bring their amplitudes up to the level that the Rosetta needs. Exactly what figure that is for your 800 depends on the settings of jumpers inside the box and the push-button settings on the front panel.

You were probably expecting that the Rosetta 800 would take microphone signals, but unfortunately that is not the case, as it is an analogue-digital and digital-analogue converter.

If you make a list of the make and model of your microphones, we could make some suggestions about the pre-amplifiers you could consider for this job. How many sound sources do you record at any one time?
 

aliberesco

Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2021
Location
Mexico
That's what I suspected. The Rosetta 800 needs to be fed with signals that have been through a pre-amplifier. This would bring their amplitudes up to the level that the Rosetta needs. Exactly what figure that is for your 800 depends on the settings of jumpers inside the box and the push-button settings on the front panel.

You were probably expecting that the Rosetta 800 would take microphone signals, but unfortunately that is not the case, as it is an analogue-digital and digital-analogue converter.

If you make a list of the make and model of your microphones, we could make some suggestions about the pre-amplifiers you could consider for this job. How many sound sources do you record at any one time?
Yes, i expected that because i was told that if i bought the rosetta i could record my drum kit with voice, bass and guitar digitally from the snake. If that's not true then it's been a waste of money, because now i have to buy more equipment. I have a shure drum kit, a sm58 for voice and my guitars
 

paulears

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Joined
Feb 7, 2014
Location
Lowestoft - UK
Can I just check? You do know this device is a line level +4dB unit? It doesn't have preamps in the usual sense at all, and is just an interface from A to D and back. The max input level is +6dB, so plugging in anything other than high level source devices won't produce much at all. I doubt a dynamic mic would even tickle the meters? The DB25 to XLR cables are pretty standard as they go, and very expensive - and I use them on some audio devices - but they don't cater for mics and guitars?

EDIT - sorry that post was late, it didn't go for some reason.

The apogee website makes no mention of anything that would give the impression it's for mics - some of their other products do - like the element 88. I don't know how you missed it. Do you have any cooling off period where you can return it? Other than that, then you could buy an older analogue classic mixer and use this to get mics and guitars up to pro line level?
 

paulears

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Joined
Feb 7, 2014
Location
Lowestoft - UK
If you only need a few channels - then if we assume you have no money, you could buy a cheapish mixer - this kind of thing.

You'd need to chop off your expensive xlr=db25 fanout and replace it with 3 circuit jacks that would let you 'sniff' the mixer channels from the inserts, but it would work. However - maybe it would be better to sell the apogee - there is one going for nearly 600UKP on our ebay at the moment - and buy something different. In all fairness - you could get something that can do many roles for that kind of money. Even maybe a Behringher X32 rack - and you'd have all sorts of possibilities and pretty decent preamps - and lots of them.
 

aliberesco

Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2021
Location
Mexico
If you only need a few channels - then if we assume you have no money, you could buy a cheapish mixer - this kind of thing.

You'd need to chop off your expensive xlr=db25 fanout and replace it with 3 circuit jacks that would let you 'sniff' the mixer channels from the inserts, but it would work. However - maybe it would be better to sell the apogee - there is one going for nearly 600UKP on our ebay at the moment - and buy something different. In all fairness - you could get something that can do many roles for that kind of money. Even maybe a Behringher X32 rack - and you'd have all sorts of possibilities and pretty decent preamps - and lots of them.
I nedd at least 8 channels, i own a motu 828 mk3 and i wanted digital, so they told me i needed the apogee, but iuf it doesnt work, what is recommended for thaht work, digital input and 8 channels, maybe there's one thing and i can sell both the apogee and the motu
 

Boswell

Moderator
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Apr 19, 2006
Location
UK
I think you would do better by selling the Rosetta 800 - you could probably get the best part of USD800 for it. For that sort of money, there would be many 8-channel pre-amp/converters available. However, you would have to spend a little more to get a unit that would give you similar conversion quality as the Rosetta, but the Audient ASP880 would do that.

The MOTU828 is worth keeping as that gives you the computer interface, MIDI I/O and a further 8 ADC inputs.
 

paulears

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Joined
Feb 7, 2014
Location
Lowestoft - UK
I was a Tascam user, then switched top Presonus - and I think that if my current firewire one died, I'd buy a Studio 1824C - not too sure about the USB-C, but it would be this or maybe a Scarlett 18i20 I think at the moment - I wouldn't use the higher sample rates, that's something I'm uninterested in - and the preamps usually get the transparent tag - and I'm not again interested in preamps that you can 'hear'. I appreciate some want this kind of thing - but not me.

 

kmetal

Kyle P. Gushue
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Joined
Jul 21, 2009
Location
Boston, Massachusetts
At Normandy we had a Rosetta 800 connected to an 828mk3 via adat just like the OP. The difference in quality is not particularly subtle. Id personally keep the 800 because its a world class unit from not too long ago. It since it does ad an da you will have very high quality inputs and outputs to your speakers.

The focusrite octo pre (non dynamic) is a good bang for the buck unit. It gives you 8ch of mic pres and adat out. Its probably not as good as the audient, but is a good performer per dollar. I have not used its adat outs (conversion) but routinely used the pres.

For an all in one motu makes an interface with 8ch of pres, and the focusrite scarlett and clarrett models have 8ch pre units too. None of the onboard pres will be as good as the audient. They will be similar to an octo pre.

A fair compromise of quality vs price would be the antelope discrete 8. I haven't used the unit but based on specs and reputation i would suspect it would hover somewhere around the audient and Rosetta middle ground.
 

aliberesco

Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2021
Location
Mexico
At Normandy we had a Rosetta 800 connected to an 828mk3 via adat just like the OP. The difference in quality is not particularly subtle. Id personally keep the 800 because its a world class unit from not too long ago. It since it does ad an da you will have very high quality inputs and outputs to your speakers.

The focusrite octo pre (non dynamic) is a good bang for the buck unit. It gives you 8ch of mic pres and adat out. Its probably not as good as the audient, but is a good performer per dollar. I have not used its adat outs (conversion) but routinely used the pres.

For an all in one motu makes an interface with 8ch of pres, and the focusrite scarlett and clarrett models have 8ch pre units too. None of the onboard pres will be as good as the audient. They will be similar to an octo pre.

A fair compromise of quality vs price would be the antelope discrete 8. I haven't used the unit but based on specs and reputation i would suspect it would hover somewhere around the audient and Rosetta middle ground.
So, you recommend i keep it and? Get a focusrite and connect the 8 channels out to the aògee 8 channels in?
 

Kurt Foster

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Jul 2, 2002
Location
77 Sunset Lane.
So, you recommend i keep it and? Get a focusrite and connect the 8 channels out to the aògee 8 channels in?
you have painted your self into an enviable position. i don't think i would be wrong to say almost anyone would be happy to own the Rosetta. a lot of us actually prefer having line inputs rather than something that forces us to use built in sub par mic pres. since you already have the Apogee, the best move would be to invest in a few mic pres or better yet, channel strips.
 

kmetal

Kyle P. Gushue
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Joined
Jul 21, 2009
Location
Boston, Massachusetts
So, you recommend i keep it and? Get a focusrite and connect the 8 channels out to the aògee 8 channels in?
That's what id do personally, then upgrade to better pres as time moves on, one or two channels at a time.

Boz's suggestion is perfectly logical.

I would just personally would prefer the top notch ad-da conversion over better pre amps to start with in this case.

Its difficult to say whats best for you, so i can only say what i prefer.
 

kmetal

Kyle P. Gushue
Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2009
Location
Boston, Massachusetts
If you sold the motu, you may be able to aquire a used interface with adat in/out and the used 8 channel pre (or other pres) for little to no extra cost.

The motu is a decent unit, but you do have that option.
 

aliberesco

Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2021
Location
Mexico
That's what id do personally, then upgrade to better pres as time moves on, one or two channels at a time.

Boz's suggestion is perfectly logical.

I would just personally would prefer the top notch ad-da conversion over better pre amps to start with in this case.

Its difficult to say whats best for you, so i can only say what i prefer.
I dont understand, i need preamps for apogee, so, you recommend to get the focusrite to use it as a pre 8 ch and connect it to the rosetta via toslink or the snake? Please consider i'm a newbie so i must go step by step, nothing is implicit. I own a rosetta connected to the motu and to the computer. I have a 8 ch snake but no preamp, so you recommend a focusrite to preamp my inputs, right? I have no money but i have gear so i can trade it for the focusrite or something like that, but before i must know if it'll be the right gear, because i need to record right away and i cant be trying several gear that wont fit my needs and ive been misguided before. Thanks
 

aliberesco

Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2021
Location
Mexico
you have painted your self into an enviable position. i don't think i would be wrong to say almost anyone would be happy to own the Rosetta. a lot of us actually prefer having line inputs rather than something that forces us to use built in sub par mic pres. since you already have the Apogee, the best move would be to invest in a few mic pres or better yet, channel strips.
Ok, like what, i mean, i don't know so i want to learn what would be the best choice to make my recording process available asap. Thank
 
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