Crane Song analog dither CD

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OTRjkl

Guest
Just received the Crane Song analog dither CD. Per their instructions, I mixed it into a tune I'm mastering (recorded/mixed on ProTools LE at 16/44.1 I think - took the CD-R & D/A'd it out of my TASCAM CD-RW2000 (24 bit), ran it across my tube A/D at 24/88.2 & into the DAW - which was a huge improvement in itself).

I could not believe what I was hearing! All of a sudden my sound had depth and (just like they said) life & warmth! When I muted the dither track, my "so much better" hi-res track now sounded thin & flat. Unbelieveable. How do they do that?!? I have found a secret weapon (Ha, Ha, Ha. I am ZATAR!!!).

One thing I'm not sure of is if I'm supposed to run the dither track through any processing that I'm doing to the audio track or if I'm supposed to just leave it alone & route it to the main bus untouched? Input???

I suppose now somebody is going to tell me that there is even better dithering out there somewhere. :eek:
 
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brad

Guest
If you are using it as dither, you'll need to add it in at the last step before truncation.
 
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OTRjkl

Guest
Originally posted by Brad Blackwood:

If you are using it as dither, you'll need to add it in at the last step before truncation.
How do I determine exactly at what point that is?

Also, what is the difference between using it as dither or as tone control? Doesn't it do both at the same time?

Thanks for the input.
 
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OTRjkl

Guest
Brad could do a much better job explaining it than I could, but here's what I know.

Dither is, in very simplified terms, adding noise to the program material that you are working on. It is a specialized noise that, I believe, spans a much wider freq. spectrum than the audible range. It is supposed to add back into the digital realm all the freqs., harmonics, overtones, etc. that are missing in digital audio in order to give it back some warmth & life. Exactly how it does it is NOT my area of expertise. (Help!, Brad.)

Anyway, per the instructions on the CS CD, you load this dithering noise into your DAW - I saved it as its own file so I could recall & use it anytime - add it to your song as its own stereo track and mix it in with the rest of your program material at -25 dB.

You will be astounded at the results! The CD says that you should hear added fullness & warmth in the bottom end, which you do. But I also noticed that individual instruments were popping out of the mix after adding the dither. It created some space behind the mix - made it more transparent & 3 dimensional, not flat like digital is. IMO, it is more than well worth the $30 investment.

I assume that it is the same type of dithering that is incorporated into the CS outboard gear.

Brad, please correct & instruct me as necessary on this.
 

Mike Simmons

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2001
Location
Philadelphia
Brad, could you comment please on the tone control vs. dither applications here? Is this used in conjunction with or instead of the dither on the 2-bus? (like pow-r dither)

On-Track (aka ZATAR!!!), I'd ask you to post a before and after but for $30 I probably should just give it a try.

Interesting stuff... is this new or are people getting similar results with other dithering software?

:w: Thanks!
 
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OTRjkl

Guest
If you have it on your dig 2-bus output and are wordlength reducing from 24-16, it will act as dither.
In a DAW situation, if you, for example, process your audio tracks on say Bus A & route that bus to the Master Bus while assigning the dither noise tracks directly to the Master Bus, is that the same as having the dither at the end of the chain? As far as I can tell, that's the only way to get the dither tracks as close as possible to the last step. This "project" would then be rendered down to a stereo file at 44.1/16 to be put to CD. Any ideas?

As far as the before/after post goes, I would be glad to do it except that I have no web site :( to post it on. Is there a place to upload a file to?
 

erockerboy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2001
Hi guys,

Just curious, does the Cranesong dither CD come with dither in multiple bit depths? Or is it 16-bit only?

TIA,

-e
 
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OTRjkl

Guest
It would be 16-bit only being as how its a Redbook CD-R (plays on a CD player).

I tried to run MS Explorer on it but it came up empty so there is obviously no data on it, just music (noise).
 
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OTRjkl

Guest
You load it into your EDL (at 16 bit) and lower the level by 25 db for standard 16 bit dither - can't see why you couldn't lower it 73 db to dither to 24 from whatever... (6db/bit - you can do the math and figure it out for any level...
So the point is....the lower the target bit depth, the more noise you use?

Brad, did you see my question about the busing & where to introduce the dithering?

I know you're busy.....
 

Kev

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2001
I've got tell ya ,

I'm having trouble coming to terms with all this.

On first read I have this in the April Fools bucket but I have too much respect for those here to dismiss it and so will have to have a re-read.

I wonder if this CD is available here in Australia.
 

Adrenaline

Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2001
Now hold on just a damn minute! You mean you can add a dither to any track and it'll bring out warmth and fullness. I'm still not really understanding what a dither is exactly. Is it like added space to an otherwise plain sound field? Where do i find this Dither software?
Yall so smart!
 
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brad

Guest
And for those of us who are just tuning in, the Crane Song dither available on the disc is the same dither used in the HEDD-192 and the Spider...
 
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OTRjkl

Guest
Originally posted by Brad Blackwood:
And for those of us who are just tuning in, the Crane Song dither available on the disc is the same dither used in the HEDD-192 and the Spider...
Not that I really know what I'm talking about, but.....

.....what noise shape would that be?

BTW- what do you know about the CS STC-8?
 
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OTRjkl

Guest
Brad-

Forgot to ask....any idea where to pick up a copy of Ken Pholman's book you mentioned?

Thanks.
 
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