# How are you metering your mix?

#### mberry593

Well-Known Member
And i also know some folks, here in France, who still use the -16dbfs = 0Vu...
But other than them, here it's -18=0, as mberry said...

I'm happy to find someone here from France. Could you please say a few words about ORTF metering? We all know about US VU, UK BBC PPM, Nodic, etc.

[="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_programme_meter"]Peak programme meter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/]

But I don't know anything about practices in France and as you can see the Wikipedia article refers to a VU meter with a +2 reference.

Thanks

#### niclaus

Well-Known Member
Well, for the last 15 years, the only meters i used were VU, Peak DIN (DIN PPM) and full scale.
The reference level was such as +4dbu=0Vu=-9PeakDin=-18dbfs

But I know that those old meter such as used in the old days were different, and were, in fact, calibrated so the reference level was +2VU. But i never saw anyone using that ref level. But this probably explain why on the first digital machines, you had the possibility to calibrate @ -16dbfs, since 0VU=-18dbFS, +2VU was -16dbfs...

Again, i never used such a ref level...

For TV, for the last 15/10 years, the reference level was -18dbFS=0VU=+4dbU=-9PPM, and the real judge was the DIN PPM, and we were not allowed to go farther than 0PPM (DIN).
For the last 4/5 years, some stupid guy who obviously didn't understand the relationship between PPM and FS told everyone not to accept mixes that would go farther than -9dbFS, since he probably thought that -9PPM was corresponding to 0PPM, but he forgot to think about the rising and release time of those 2 different meters...
Anyway, we then had to deliver mixes that were crushed beyond salvation (because to go to 0PPM when you limit @ -9DBFS, you have to crush things), and it also allowed people to crush things so their program was louder than the one next to it... It did not make any sense anymore.

TV mixes waveform started to look like music waveform... You know, the good old brick...

For the last couple of years things changed and we were asked to use the dolby media meter as a reference, and mix @-25(dialogue level) while still limiting @-9dbFS... Since Dolby was not willing to give their algorithm away, the same comition (CST/Ficam) decided to use another loudness measurement and went for the EBU128 recommandation.
Around the same time, analog TV disapeared, and the 0PPM limitation with it...

Since january first 2012, we deliver mixes @-23LKFS (+-1), loudness range inferior to 20LU and max true peak @ -3dbFS... (using the same reference levels, +4dbu=0VU=-18dbFS=-9PeakDin)
Wich make much more sense than what we've been using for the last decade, but it still has some flaws (like on old movies for example).
So, now, we use Peak DIN, VU, DBFS, Loudness meter... (most of the time i only use Peak Din and Loudness meter)

For theatre release, well, when your room is calibrated @ 85/83dbC, you can do whatever you want... but people are still using the PPM meter (phase meters and lissajous) to check levels... (and optical soundtrack (analog LtRt on the side of the print) is still limited around 0PPM).

I hope i was clear, and not too boring...

N.

#### mberry593

Well-Known Member
Niclaus: Thanks for taking the time to update us on the situation in France. I'm still curious about the thinking behind the old +2 reference though.

Replies
1
Views
1K
I
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
639
Replies
11
Views
2K
Replies
61
Views
6K