Learning the trade

[rubsanda]

I'm an old guy, but my 26-yr-old son plans to attend an "audio engineering" school in New York City. The two he's considering are Institute for Audo Research and the SAE Institute.

He's a college grad and a performing musician. He's also had some recording experience.

Any opinions about which school provides the better training in this field?

TIA.

 

[sign]

There's an 'audio education' forum on http://www.musicplayer.com

There was quite a discussion about the subject a while ago on this (read only now) forum.

Especially Fletcher had some very interesting comments about the SAE/Full Sail and that kind of education 'institutes' on which I for the most part agree with Fletcher.

I had a number of 'students' in my studio who had an 'education certificate' but most of them didn't know $*^t.

IMHO it's as easy as saying; I like to become a professional football player and I'm going to attend an education for it, or; I want to become a famous artist, painter or whatsoever.

I would very much like to know the opinion of other engineers/producers about this subject without starting a flame war.

I really hope this helps and saves you a lot of money.

 

[rubsanda]

Thanks for letting me know about the forum.

I'm not sure that you are saying that "audio engineering" schools are worthless, but -- aside from doing an apprenticeship, how does one learn the trade?

 

[roninmusic]

Personally I think, overall, the engineering schools are a good idea if (and only if) the student themselves approach it with the right frame of mind. The student should be aware that he/she will still start their career the bottom rung.

One of the more apparent pros of these schools is that it lets students get a broad sense of high end equipment and how is is applied. If someone has at least a grasp of the tools and the flow of a session (and is man/woman enough to know that no one gives a damn about their opinion at this juncture in their career), I see no reason why they wouldn't be an asset to most studios.

The knock I have on these schools is that they seem to teach arrogance. I know of one school that told students that they should be able to go to any studio and assist any session after graduating. This statement is ridiculous and is probably one of the reasons most current engineers/producers/studio managers have a problem with recording school grads.

I'll use Han's analogy of the painter/artist... Recording schools are like a painting school that teaches you what the brushes are, how to prep the canvases for the painter, how to tell the water colors and the oils apart, who was the most famous neo-classicalist, etc... If a student is too dumb to figure out how to apply this knowledge into a work scenerio then they will fall by the wayside.

 

[sign]

(Dead Link Removed)

 

[Ang1970]

Thanks Han!

 

[Mad John]

Hi,

I briefly went to (no chuckleing now) The Center for the Media Arts in NYC in 1988. I belive it was a 6 month course. This is when Hip Hop was really hot and everybody was crazy over "The Artist formally known as......."

It was like being in a asembley line for idiots!

I remeber one class where the teacher spoke on the sonic atributes of the wave forms in a cymbal after it had been struck. His lecture went on for over an hour on this subject, till I finally raised my hand and said something like , "I thought you just hit the cymbal and moved on!"

I did learn how to edit though , but I walked out on the school with in a month , had to keep the bull $*^t books.. "The Phisics of music" - please!

I got a little over $3000 back and proceeded to purchase the Tascam 388 1/4 8 track that was new at that time. Great piece, recorded an Opera on it!

I also went at this time to The New School where I was in a class (for 1 day!) called How to write a song. They discussed the writting skills of Stevie Wonder and Paul Mcartney.

That is where I leaned more than I could of hoped for! These peole are scammers...please. I went to Berklee in Boston for 2 semesters in 1985 and it was the worst expierience of my young life.

They are not Musicians but Robots and they learn to analize music Scientifically! Does this make any sence?

From all of this I learned that one does not go to the Mick Jagger institute to learn how to be a real Rock and Roller.

Real world expierience is always preferable.

Just my 2 cents!

"The Modern day Composer refuses to die!" Varese

Mad John
Zythum Studios

 

[Mad John]

Hi,

I briefly went to (no chuckleing now) The Center for the Media Arts in NYC in 1988. I belive it was a 6 month course. This is when Hip Hop was really hot and everybody was crazy over "The Artist formally known as......."

It was like being in a asembley line for idiots!

I remeber one class where the teacher spoke on the sonic atributes of the wave forms in a cymbal after it had been struck. His lecture went on for over an hour on this subject, till I finally raised my hand and said something like , "I thought you just hit the cymbal and moved on!"

I did learn how to edit though , but I walked out on the school with in a month , had to keep the bull $*^t books.. "The Phisics of music" - please!

I got a little over $3000 back and proceeded to purchase the Tascam 388 1/4 8 track that was new at that time. Great piece, recorded an Opera on it!

I also went at this time to The New School where I was in a class (for 1 day!) called How to write a song. They discussed the writting skills of Stevie Wonder and Paul Mcartney.

That is where I leaned more than I could of hoped for! These peole are scammers...please. I went to Berklee in Boston for 2 semesters in 1985 and it was the worst expierience of my young life.

They are not Musicians but Robots and they learn to analize music Scientifically! Does this make any sence?

From all of this I learned that one does not go to the Mick Jagger institute to learn how to be a real Rock and Roller.

Real world expierience is always preferable.

Just my 2 cents!

"The Modern day Composer refuses to die!" Varese

Mad John
Zythum Studios

 

[Bob Olhsson]

<<aside from doing an apprenticeship, how does one learn the trade? >>

Frankly, one doesn't learn the trade without doing some kind of apprenticeship over several years. This is just how the entertainment business works. It's all about demonstrating that you can be trusted.

 

[aztro1]

having been a musician and dabling in home recording prior to attending a school for the "art of recording" having alredy had moderate real world experience I chose to go this school as part of a vocational rehab program.i had no interest in pursuing a crear in audio recording or live sound,but was only interested in furthering my knowledge in the basic fundementals of recording.that was almost two years ago and now i own my own studio and just resigned from a very large regional / national production company where i was a staff audio engineer,I continue to free lance as live sound engineer when i can.I make my entire living off of pro audio.I dont think this would have ever happened if I hadnt gone to this school.I also dont believe that these schools are for every one.they are a great way to learn a rough out line of the basics of recording but with out the ambition and a true love for the art as with anything you will succeed at nothing but failure