Mackie HDR vs. Tascam MX2424 vs. Fostex LV2424

[Doc@BeefyTreats.com]

Anyone had experiences with these beasts? Anyone able to compare and contrast? I am sick of computer recording and want something else that is hard disk based (I like the copy/paste and undo functions, it's true). Any ideas? Doc

 

[MindMeld]

why not the alesis? I've had no problems with it and its totally stable and sounds good as long as you have an external clock. i have the lucid wordclock and i often track to the alesis, and transfer to the computer to mix with nuendo

Marshall

 

[sheet]

I have used all three. I did a session at a very large, very well known university, and they had done projects throughout the year on various loaner units. My job was to get them sync'd to video and dumped into a DAW.

The Mackie has some issues still. They had gone online to learn how to make there own drive/carrier's instead of buying Mackies. That was a mistake. In the long run, it is better to buy the Mackie. The Mackie's internal clock is less than stable. It reads video sync ok. I had various clicks and pops in the audio when it generated TC. There are software issues with this unit. Go to the user's conference to see the fixes. It sounds good for the money.

The Tascam is pretty much bug free now. They have the editing software down now. You need a computer for this one though. You don't need a computer with the Mackie. The sound of the Tascam is very good for the money. I have never had one lock up or have boot-up problems.

I have not used the Fostex in a long time, and it was not side by side with the competition.

I would go with the iZ Radar Project D. The Radar is the way to go. You can use iSCSI drives which are faster than ATA drives, have greater throughput than an ATA, and are less expensive than a SCSI drive. The Radar has such a nice buffer system that even ATA drives work fine in mixing and in tracking. It sounds great, and BeOS is much more stable than Windows, DOS or any other OS that the competition uses.

I would rent one first and check it out.

 

[FloodStage]

sheet,

What software issues did the Mackie have? I've got a HDR and would like to know what to look out for.

For what it's worth, I use a Lucid GenX-6 to clock my stuff and I haven't had any clock issues.

The only problem I've ever had is that sometimes when I boot up the HDR, it gets half way through the boot process and starts over and you have to power down and start over to get it booted up. However, once it boots all the way up, it has never ever crashed on me.

Thanks!

 

[Davedog]

The Alesis is the easiest of the bunch.With external clock it sounds better but jitter on this machine is a minumum anyway.The IDE drives are available evrywhere and are cheap.The OS is the same as ADAT and we all know how long thats been around. Any problems there have been ironed out long ago.The new $199 firewire outdrive for the Alesis makes it possible to sys dump all your tracks into most any DAW system for edit or tweeking and theres no need for any othe converters.So for around 2grand its a very economical and stable platform to record to.I have had no problems this year with mine and I havent even upgraded to the newest OS.The newest models operate at 24/96 and i'm pretty sure that this is 24 tracks at that rate.Mine will record at 24/96 but only 12 tracks...still, for the money its really the best..AND YES, when I bought I had the opportunity to shop and compare.Price was not the issue. Functionality was.Mackies over hyped and under engineered HDR's turned me off.Why would I want a propriatary OS that doesnt acurately 'talk' to anything else except a D8B, and uses ungodly expensive propriatary drives.The Tascam was what I almost bought and if the dealers in town would have known more I would have bought it.Sice I didnt, I had more money for the console.Which in the end turned out to be the best choice of all.
That said, If I had the money to upgrade right now it would be the RADAR system.And the DAW to edit would be all the Hammerfall cards...ymmv

 

[Doc@BeefyTreats.com]

I am under the impression that the Alesis is destructive editing only, no undo. Is this so? Doc

 

[sheet]

The Alesis is linear based, destructive recording. This works great for live recordings.

 

[sheet]

Originally posted by FloodStage:
sheet,

What software issues did the Mackie have? I've got a HDR and would like to know what to look out for.


Thanks!

I don't recall. It was the version prior to the current release of 12/02. The problem with updating was that there was a missed update along the way. The word from Mackie is that you have to install ALL updates, prior to installing the new Mackie OS. If you didn't, you had to send your drive back to Mackie, or some stupid crap like that.

When I walked into this format hell, I tried to make it work in the same fashion that it was working when they recorded with it. We actually had a great studio clock system.

I seem to recall that it would not simultaneously pass signal from digital in to digital out while in record mode too. That was an odd feature. Is yours like that?

 

[rhythm-ranch]

The Alesis does have un-do.

 

[sheet]

The undo does not work in record mode, only in edit mode. It is a destructive recorder, just like tape. If you record a vocal on track "8" and you recut the vocal on track "8", the orginal is overwritten. It has not undo there where it is most important.

 

[Davedog]

While it is true that there are no 'virtual tracks' with the Alesis and the undo only works in edit, folks like myself who came from analog only, dont find this to be a particularly hard problem.After all, the best performance is the one to keep and theres 24 tracks to perform on....if thats not enough, for the money it will cost for a Mackie HDR, you could have 48 tracks of Alesis and enough left over to buy a nice mic.

 

[Kurt Foster]

What Dave said!! And the Mackie is, well.... it's a Mackie!! Nuff' said!

 

[sheet]

I don't think that the destructive thing is bad for live gigs either. I have never had anyone stop a show to retake a solo. I think that the whole hard drive issue is dealt with better on the Alesis than the Mackie.

 

[Doc@BeefyTreats.com]

My research is leading me towards the Tascam. I am still interested to hear reports on the Fostex HD recorder or anything else people can recommend. Doc

 

[Axeman32]

I use the Mackie as my mobile recording unit. It is very easy to port tracks to my DAW. USB connection and move the files. That simple!

I also prefer the non-linear use of disk space. I also like the non-destructive recording and the virtual tracks. All of which can be copied into you DAW with no hassle.

This was the deciding factor for me. . .

 

[acorec]

Originally posted by Doc@BeefyTreats.com:
Anyone had experiences with these beasts? Anyone able to compare and contrast? I am sick of computer recording and want something else that is hard disk based (I like the copy/paste and undo functions, it's true). Any ideas? Doc

I have had the Fostex D1624 and now the D2424LV. I find them to be great sounding "tape" substitutes. I mean the controls are like the old analog machines. The controls are straight forward and the sound is really amazing. I have much time on it with no problems. I , too, gave up on computer recording. I have all of the software (cakewalk, Pro-tools etc.etc.) and found out that there is always a stumbling block somewhere. I like mixing the old fashion way. I like recording the old fashion way. The D2424LV is really a good sounding and quiet machine.

 

[Rod Gervais]

quote:
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Originally posted by Doc@BeefyTreats.com:
Anyone had experiences with these beasts? Anyone able to compare and contrast? I am sick of computer recording and want something else that is hard disk based (I like the copy/paste and undo functions, it's true). Any ideas? Doc

OK doc....... i've owned the alesis adat.... loved it - but it has it's limitations.. one of which is that it's linear (as has been noted by others) and also that the tape itself develops tensioning problems and degradation of the media with time.

The Mackie MDR 24/96 is what i am working with now. There are some problems with the time clock..... although the occurances are far and few in between.... and the few times that i have had problems (one was a time shift of a section of track that i had copied because the musician's playing volume wasn't consistent - which completly dissapeared from the time hack - only to reappear about 2/3 of the way through the recording) - BUT (the big but) i have always found success with the UNDO command. Thus i have never had a problem which was unrecoverable.

When i do have this occurance i simply close the song i am working on and reboot - not a killer - and then she works fine for months on end..... my problems have only been maybe 4 or 5 times since i purchased the gear - and i have had it for almost 2 years.

I suppose the big question is - would i purchase another mackie - and the answer is yes - although my next purchase will be a HDR 24/96 - which i will be able to slave the one i have now to - and which utilizes a computer key board, monitor and mouse to allow software editing without the need for a seperate computer system.

All of that having been said - i personally now would never return to tape for initial recording.

I might consider mixing down and going to analog if i wanted some of the warmth (personally i don't see this as an issue at this time) but i get everthing in the world i want with disk.

I love the ability to have a take absolutely perfect except for a single bass note - and slicing 5 or 10/1000 of a second out so i don't have to re-dub. Or pushing something forward the same for perfect sync.

I would not do this much work for a track that was botched - but damn it's nice for that occassional slip.

All of that having been said - i have never worked with the other digital recorders - and (as i have mentioned more than a few times on this site) i am not a professional sound engineer - but i would have to believe that any of those recorders would be in the same class or better. It just so happened that at the moment where my particular illness (the driving desire to buy more gear) struck me on that particular day - i was standing next to a mackie deck.

Happy hunting

Rod

 

[Rod Gervais]

Ooooppppppppsss...... 3 comments more - i should have read ALL of the comments above 1st - my bad

1. i have never worked with the alesis HD system - only the ADAT

2. The mackie does not require proprietory hard drives - will work with any manufacturers drives that meet the spec - (which is governed by the drive speed and size) - although it will use any drive of any speed and size which (if it verifies that it is not correct for continous operation for recording purposes) it will then use only for backup.

3. the system is Windows and Apple compatible for connection to a computer network if desired.

Once again - my wishes are only that you end up with the gear that works best for you - i own no stock in mackie and therefor have no vested interest in your purchasing their equipment.

Happy hunting

Rod

 

[sheet]

Or....you could just buy the Radar and NEVER have any problems like you would with the Mackie. Call around in Nashville. It is the dominant digital machine there.

 

[sheet]

Or....you could just buy the Radar and NEVER have any problems like you would with the Mackie. Call around in Nashville. It is the dominant digital machine there.