RADAR studio the "integrated audio appliance"

Kurt Foster

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2002
Location
77 Sunset Lane.
as you are speaking, saying you don't "need another computer", you say you are "thinking of a new computer".

i think that speaks more to what i was saying than refuting it. solid state memory, 384 and higher, dsd multitrack are all lurking in the shadows ..... it's going to be another 6 years until Moore's law predicts the doubling of processor power every year. it could go on even longer.

plugs are here to stay ... people are going to use them because 1. they look cool and 2. every body else does. obsolescence is a fact we deal with. this sh*t was supposed to cost less and "sound better". not drain your wallet and "sound real ok'.
 

audiokid

Chris
Moderator
Joined
Mar 20, 2000
Location
Nanaimo BC, Canada
Indeed Kurt. You and I are in the camp where we don't need all this added distraction. I'm pretty sure 1 EQ, 1 type of comp, 1 limiter, a reverb, delay is enough for me. When i am mixing my stuff, I may have a lot of tracks but almost all of them are flat or only slightly graphed. I really don't understand why people need so many plugins and all the DSP. Samplitude and Sequoia are like a great console to me. Its all I need. As long as you don't pollute it, it works great.

But back to the need of another computer:
I am interested in finding a new company we can promote here.
The second part to that is based around learning more about spectral engineering and studying how to remove bad rooms in the mix. I want a DAW for forensic type audio and personal research in spectral editing. But my 5 year old PC is rocking right now. And my 6 year old DAW is getting all the mastering I need done. Its an older AMD on Windows 7. It sings along.

imho. a well built , well optimized PC should run for years. I'm thinking longer and cheaper in the "long run" than any tape deck, that's for sure.
 

pan60

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
and how long until the processor / ram / drives / os become obsolete? backward compatibility is a lost concept in computerland. just buy new sh*t every year or two. and if you can't afford it, die. keep in mind new computer usually means new audio interface .... look at all the firewire interfaces for sale ... you can't give one away. everything is thunderbolt now ....but even this shall pass.
plus one!
I almost wonder if the daw companies should not start offering their own computers just to keep thing a bit more backward compatible?
I'm old i'am gray, but I want gear that will not force me to make a total upgrade on everything I have just because.
 

DonnyThompson

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2012
Location
Akron/Cleveland, OH
this sh*t was supposed to cost less and "sound better". not drain your wallet and "sound real ok'.

I don't ever recall being led to believe that "going digital" was going to cost less than analog...at least not to do it right. But if you do the math, it actually does cost less - for what you get and what you can achieve.

Consider where we were in 1978 or so... a decent 8 track 1/2" deck, passable console, wiring, bays, good mics, racks of processing, even for a home studio we could spend $10 grand easy and still be pretty limited in what we could do.
And that's 10 grand in 1978 money.

Now, we can have unlimited tracks, all the processing that one of our old racks had - and then some - and without having to constantly fix cables and bays, maintain gear that could break down, or be noisy, and which had a finite bandwidth... all for around $3000 or so, tops.

I like analog too, and like the rest of you, I came up in the age where that was all we had - so we learned on it and did the best we could with what we had. But my production potential far outshines what I used to be able to do with analog, and the limitations it held. I have no desire to return to a large format console, racks of OB gear, and all the cables and bays it took to integrate it all.


I really don't understand why people need so many plugins and all the DSP. Samplitude and [="http://pro.magix.com/en/sequoia/"]Sequoia[/] are like a great console to me. Its all I need. As long as you don't pollute it, it works great.

LOL... well, you know why. ;)
Because not everyone mixes the same way. Styles differ, as do production methods. Certainly a great preamp, mic, EQ and GR set are paramount to any good recording workflow. But there are those of us who really do like certain FX beyond what our DAW platforms offer. I love Samp, it's a fantastic DAW platform, editing is the best - bar none, and it's EQ is as good as it gets.... but I'm not - and never have been - crazy about their stock verbs or delays. My favorite reverb of all time is the Bricasti. But, I can't afford one, and, as of this writing, they haven't made a software version yet, so my next go-to is T-Racks Lexicon PCM Reverb. It has the lush, smooth sound that I like when I choose to use a verb. I'm still using Samp's delays, and I think they're okay, but I'm looking for an alternative.

I also like using a few different third party compressors for textures. I love the way the 1176 I'm using sounds on kick and snare. But, that's just me, and directly related to the way I mix and produce. It's not the right way for everyone, it's just the way that works best for me.

It's an individual thing. No two people really mix alike. That doesn't make one better or worse than the other, just different. I think it'd be a pretty boring world if we all mixed and produced the same way. ;)

IMHO of course.

d.
 

pan60

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
3000.00 Would not get me close. And I still have a largish patch bay and crap loads of cabling.
I'am not a total in the box guy. I would rather spend more money and have a computer and AD/DA system that would work for years with little maintenance. I can still get a tech to work on my tape machine and or console, most outboard gear.
I do like and prefer the computer particularly in regard to editing and i'am not totally anti computer. I do not like the constant built in obsolescence.
I am setting with a computer now that if I had my way I would not change, but it is on list last leg I plan to get the most out of it but the change to a new computer is going to be very costly. It will mean a major overhaul. I am not looking forward to it at all.
 

Kurt Foster

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2002
Location
77 Sunset Lane.
Now, we can have unlimited tracks, all the processing that one of our old racks had - and then some - and without having to constantly fix cables and bays, maintain gear that could break down, or be noisy, and which had a finite bandwidth... all for around $3000 or so, tops.

3000.00 Would not get me close.

i was just looking at [="http://pcaudiolabs.com/"]computers[/] .... $1600 for a basic [="http://pcaudiolabs.com/rok-box-mc-mobile-7-fw/"]audio ready laptop[/]. $3800 for a full blown options. DAW software / plugs not included
 

pan60

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
The refurbed macs I have been looking at have been between 4000.00 and above 5000.00.
I have never owned a PC and don't know anything about one.
my wife has mac and pc both in her office but hates the pc. i looked at hers and could not make head not tails of it so i am thinking i will just stay with the mac. and i am not happy with the mac service, so a pc is still on the radar. but even so a computer and a daw with just the basics i can see it for even close to 3000.00 even with a pc?
personally I have 36 channel in and out, I could probably get by with 24, but 8 would not even get close to working for me.
 

pan60

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Also if we are chatting about Radar then we would need to be looking at computer that would fall in that same category as the Radar system. So comp, and AD/DA as well or am I missing something?
 

Kurt Foster

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2002
Location
77 Sunset Lane.
that is comparable to the RADAR's Windoze system. nice laptops! and wouldn't you consider Antelope converters to be in the same league as the Radar basic?

the Thunderbolt laptops start around $2500. add 32 channels of the ORION and your choice of DAW ... another $3G's. PC Audio will load and configure the OS, plugs & DAW ... pretty close to turn key but at a price. BUT still way less than the RADAR.
 

audiokid

Chris
Moderator
Joined
Mar 20, 2000
Location
Nanaimo BC, Canada
i was just looking at [="http://pcaudiolabs.com/"]computers[/] .... $1600 for a basic [="http://pcaudiolabs.com/rok-box-mc-mobile-7-fw/"]audio ready laptop[/]. $3800 for a full blown options. DAW software / plugs not included
I have a similar laptop of theirs, it works excellent. Its never crashed once and I run Sequoia 13 on it. The only thing I don't like about it is the mouse pad so I use a usb one most of the time with it.
 

DonnyThompson

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2012
Location
Akron/Cleveland, OH
I dunno Kurt.

I've got an HP with a 3.5ghz quad core cpu, 2 TB HDD, 16 gig RAM, 27" flat screen monitor, and it runs 45 tracks of audio, VSTi's and all kinds of plugs - per track if I want - with no sweat...

$699 for the PC, $189 for the flat screen.
Software and hardware, probably another $1500-$2000.

I've spent money in add ons along the way - like plugs - maybe around $1000 or so... but that's nowhere near what I paid to fill my rack back in the day, though..the real hardware was a whole lot more expensive, and I have so much more audio processing now... I don't use all of it all of the time, but if I was going to put togeter a real OB rack with eveything I have in plug in form now, I'd be looking at probably $15,000.... and I think that's probably conservative.

Those custom built turn-key DAW computers are sweet, to be sure, but you don't have to have one that loaded, unless you see yourself getting into a lot of ultra-dense production - 45 tracks and over, 16 different VSTi's running at once, 4 processors per track at once, etc., then yeah, you're gonna need some serious ammo. But do you really see yourself doing that? Do you think you need to be loaded for a bear that big?

Not being a smart ass here.... I'm sincere in my questions.
 

Kurt Foster

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2002
Location
77 Sunset Lane.
i suppose i don't have a grip on how much of a computer i need but history tells me to max out.
i would like to be able to record 8 tracks live and mix 32. i have never used more than 32 tracks.
i'm looking new and used at i7 quads with either 7200 or 10,000 rmp or solid state drives, 8 gig ram, nvida graphics, f/w or thuder bolt as well as usb intefacing ... and i'm looking at laptops. i will never buy another desktop.
 

audiokid

Chris
Moderator
Joined
Mar 20, 2000
Location
Nanaimo BC, Canada
I agree with Donny all the way here. The only people needing some beast of a computer are the ones excessively using plug-ins. From the sounds of it, I use half the amount Donny uses and if he's doing okay on that box, I don't understand why you can't because I'm certain you aren't buying into the UAD/ third party supermarket?
 

Kurt Foster

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2002
Location
77 Sunset Lane.
has to be a laptop that is not limited so if i want to run UAD or something else, i can.

i want to record / monitor 8 tracks live @96 without latency and mix with plugs. i think the computers i have speced out can do that.

i saw a used ASUS laptop on C/L today that has thunderbolt for $750.
 

pan60

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
I called a friend that sells audio designed computers and he could not get me want I wanted for anything close to 3000.00. And even if he could that still does not cover the DAW or converters.
The Radar can be upgraded a long ways, and I am not jumping for the radar like I say, but can you take the laptop as far as you can that Radar? Plus look at the warranty and service the Radar offers.
The Radar AD/DA converters that I have heard are as good as they get. I have not of course heard everything out their but they are nice.
I cant bring myself to get a laptop.
Tower here.
 

audiokid

Chris
Moderator
Joined
Mar 20, 2000
Location
Nanaimo BC, Canada
warranty and service the Radar offers
imo, who cares about the bloated warranty they offer. Its a waste of money period.

My laptop will track 24 channels of Studiolive for 2 hours straight. But they can get hot and heat is not a good thing over time.

My laptop runs USB converters great. I also used it for FF800 with FW. 8 channels on a Laptop is pretty easy, but latency is subjective. It depends on how clean tou keep it, the DAW you use and the third party "junk" you pollute it with.

Laptops are great for mobile but they are horrible to mix on. But my eyes aren't that great either. My PCAudioLabs Laptop has an HDMI bus so I hook it to a big TV and it works excellent, but, it also has an impact on how ell it responds once the big screen is going. Laptops don't have the same ability to do a lot of things as well. So, keep that in mind.
 
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