Sub-Mixing Drums

[Blaine]

Can I run this by you:

I assemble my drum tracks in acid (from loops and samples ect..) and save them as seperate .wav files, open them up in Samplitude. create a stereo sub-mix for drums only. Send each track ( kick, snare ect..) pre-fader to the sub-mix setting the levels with my Aux Bus sends and Each track fader is off.
On the sub-mix track I insert a Waves RCL compressor pre-fader, Reverb post fader, BBE Sonic Maximizer post fader and then mix that stereo fader in with the rest of the instruments.
Does anything look out of place here. I've searched but haven't found much info on mixing drums and this is kinda self taught. I'd be thankful for any comments on my fx placements and such.

 

[drumsound]

Blaine,
If that method is working for you go with it. Keep in mind on method doesn't work for everything.

Have Fun!

 

[arneholm]

Originally posted by Blaine:
I assemble my drum tracks in acid (from loops and samples ect..) and save them as seperate .wav files, open them up in Samplitude. create a stereo sub-mix for drums only. Send each track ( kick, snare ect..) pre-fader to the sub-mix setting the levels with my Aux Bus sends and Each track fader is off.
On the sub-mix track I insert a Waves RCL compressor pre-fader, Reverb post fader, BBE Sonic Maximizer post fader and then mix that stereo fader in with the rest of the instruments.
Blaine, I use Samplitude myself. In version 6 you could actually create a drum bus
out of drum tracks, assign all the drums with panning to it. Actually panning is the thing that kinda puzzles me. The AUX send is mono in Samplitude, isn't it? (I almost never use Samplitude like that) So you would lose all the stereo information doing that? Or you would have to create actually two aux sends and hard pan them on the returns? This sounds a bit inconvenient to me, that's for sure.

In version 6 it is a piece of cake - you assign all the drum tracks to a drum bus, comp and eq them separately, if needed and then again comp the drum bus aswell...

Also - what does the BBE Sonic Maximizer do exactly? It's a limiter, right? What I mean - the Waves Renn compressor (RCL) already has a limiter on it - is it necessary to put another limiter on top of it? Myself I pretty much hate peak limiters on the drums - or I just haven't found a suitable use to them. They seem to kill all the depth that there was left in the drums. But if it works for you - fine!

 

[Aaron-Carey]

BBE sonic maximizer is an enhancer, like an aphex.

 

[Blaine]

The BBE Maximizer, a plug in I came across the other night and it had a few presets in it for instruments, drums, full mixes ect... so I tried it on a drum mix and it seemed to open the mix up. It sounded like it pulled out some of the low mids and added air. I guess a professional would know how to do the with eq but I'm not in that arena.

B

 

[KellDammit]

i think the aphex boxes are frequency exciters...they may make a similar device to the bbe, tho.

the bbe sonic maximizer is some sort of frequency-based delay, i believe...
the idea is to slightly separate the high and low attacks, so they don't step on each other...since you hear the low and high separately, each seems more defined and clear.
i know the bbe hardware boxes are supposed to do it without screwing up the phase, or at least they correct the phase after the processing. so the advertising says anyway...
that's the general gist of the thing to the best of my knowledge, tho i'm sure someone could explain it with more detail (or perhaps more accuracy).

it's a pretty nifty gizmo...some companies were even building bbe processors into walkman-type portables a few years back.
i know there's a plugin around, but i haven't messed with it yet, but it is licensed by bbe...

kell

 

[waitgoiter]

That technique will sure thicken the drums up if they're too thin. You compress/distort/reverb the submix and then mix it in underneath till it's as big as you need it.

But I'm thinking that if you're reaching for the sonic maximizer then you've already got too much mud going on? Sometimes I like a graphic eq on the dirty submix to get it just right, preferably the worst one you can find. YMMV in the plug-in world.

 

[Aaron-Carey]

kell yeah the BBE is an exciter. It has a high freq enhancer, and splits the lows into sevral bands, delaying each slightly by a different amount. Been in guitar racks for years. Great device for them.

You never seen one in a guitar rack?

The weirdest thing to me is, the real world BBE is an analog device. Yet they have modeled it VERY well in this dx plugin...
so WHY cant manufacturers who make DIGITAL reverbs make their DX reverbs sound as good as their real digital ones???

makes no sense, seems like it would be so much harder to model something analog, then to just port over their code from their digital algo.

 

[Bob Olhsson]

Digital reverb units are actually complete dedicated computers.

General purpose processors are only just becoming powerful enough to think about porting over code to use at the same time as other functions. Even then the savings in processing power still makes using outboard reverb units more sensible.

 

[Bob Olhsson]

Oh, about drum mixing...

I find that the biggest challenge is keeping all of the relative timing straight in terms of the delays caused byplug-ins Amazingly small changes can have a major impact on how a track feels rhythmically. This is a major issue in sample replacement and editing too.