just wondering what different approaches people take to eqing drum overheads, or, how people make their overheads work well with their close mic's.
it depends on the eq's i'm using, my favourite overheads signal chain is an rcaNeumann ba-71a discrete preamp to a matched pair of custom pultec eqp1a i have , with the pultec i'm boosting in the 6.3k area and i'm filtering all from 200hz down ,depends on the style of music i sometimes filtering from 700hz down , but usualy i'm filtering all from 400hz.
sometimes i'm using a pir of neve 1064's preeq's and then i'm boosting the 10k shelf a few steps sometimes even boosting the 7k but the neve's are quite agresive in that region so i'm bypassing it a few times to be sure , with the neve's i'm hp filtering from 360hz down because that's what available on that eq
depends on what mics I am using, how the drummer hits the drums and the room I am recording in. The thing that I keep wanting to tweek is the height and placement of the overheads so that I can get the best balance of the kit as a whole. I will also listen in mono to make sure that there isn't any phasing issues especially when I start adding more mics into the mix, especially with the snare mic.
As far as eq goes, only a little on the top if needed and a little of the bottom filtered out at 50 or 60Hz if needed. I find if the mics are put in the right spot there isn't much you need to do. To me, having to boost the eq more than +6dB indicates that something is awry (unless, of course,you're going for some radical sound).
A drummer who knows how to balance himself is a big plus. A good sounding drum kit (new skins all around) with the right snare for the song (I try to avoid triggering or sound replacing drums but sometimes it is a necessity) in a good room for drums is even a bigger plus.
I'll always record the Overheads flat. At mix, often I'll high pass anywhere between 60-300Hz, not always though. Usually a little hi-shelf on the top. Usually don't do anything in the mid-range at all.
As a drummer, I hate the use of overheads as "cymbal mics (exaggeratedly sibilant overheads)," so I like to start my high pass at around 200-250 Hz. Also, if I add any top end, I usually also employ a de-esser.
As far as mic'ing goes, cymbals can get really brash with mics that are too on-axis; I try to capture most of the room with the overheads (invariably large diaphragms) while keeping the drum mics close.
[edit: ...and I just realized that most of this had been said by Johnwy already.]
I record all the drums flat and dry...Lately I've been on an X/Y stereo overhead...I find that its smoother.At mix I'll take the overs out of the drum sub and send them to their own sub...then I'll compress the general drum tracks across the bus and use the overs for my air and spread.
i always like to put the overheads not only for cymbals sound but ambience too, room, the real sound of the instrument...
'cause i have in mind that drums is just 'one' instrument, and i have only 1 888 i/o (8 inputs) :lol:
for me, the great sound of drums come from the oh's, the best hf of snare and hi hat...
so, i use 2 large diaphragms in a-b (lately i have used 2 M9 tube, with interesting results, and very smooth hf's), rec eq's flat (roll off at 65) and mic with low cut and -10db key (-16db) turned on.
eq's in the mix:
- roll off between 80-220,
- parametric around 7k, for more 'presence'
- parametric around 17k, for more 'air'
well, usually is this what i make... (plus a shotgun (at4041) in ride...)
I don't find myself having to EQ much at all. Usually just a little bit of wide Q 400 HZ makes them fit in great. I use Jim Williams modified vintage KM86's (triple pattern versions of the KM84, NOT the 184). The Josephson E22s are probably the closest thing on the market to the Jim Williams modded 86's...the Josephsons have a slightly bigger low frequency range though, which is pretty damn cool IMO, even less reductive EQ needed than the 86's.
Davedog wrote: I record all the drums flat and dry...Lately I've been on an X/Y stereo overhead...I find that its smoother.At mix I'll take the overs out of the drum sub and send them to their own sub...then I'll compress the general drum tracks across the bus and use the overs for my air and spread.
I too have used this technique and find it works well, however sometimes I have found that once I bring in the oh tracks to give the snare,toms,etc life and air, the cymbals become way too present in the overall mix, I guess this comes down to mic placement which I realise, but I did want to ask, do you comp the overhead tracks once they are sent to their own bus??