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My journey into Hybrid mixing

Today was the baby step into this new way (for me) of doing recording and mixing. I was fairly certain (thanks to help from others here, audiokid in particular) about how to get going. Today braving the install of the RME HDSPe card into the Mac was step one. Before all that I had to setup power and network etc. Once I had the card in I made it talk to the Orion 32 and out to the Dangerous Music Monitor ST.

The Orion 32 console is a horrible thing to work with initially, once you know how, it's just fiddly. The great thing is, with something like I have just done, it's do it, save it to a setting, remove the USB cable, and done. To make it work (future reference for any who may need to know) You simply shift click and drag all the AD line to the MADI OUT and MADI 32 in to DA out. If you needed more, say the SPDIF or ADAT, you can simply drag those to 33 through whatever.

Final step, tell the Orion to use MADI as a clock source (contrary to anything Antelope may say, their clock is not better than the RME clock, and keeps everything sane). I then installed the drivers for the RME and flawless connection. With that complete, I hooked up some 8 way off DB25 cables to my Dangerous Music Monitor ST and with a feed off the Orion 32 gave first my older Mackie HR824s a try... then, the moment I had been waiting for, hooked up the Event Opals. Loaded up Logic Pro X again, already having confirmed with the Mackies I had a clean path.

The Event Opals are definitely more distinct, I was surprised the Mackies didn't fair badly against them, but, the difference is that distinction. Sitting under my newly installed group of Auralex and facing more on the wall behind them. There is a very detailed difference already, not even set the Events up properly yet, just default.

Next time into the fray, making sure the Preamps are bringing in a clean signal, and, setting up the MCU Pro, Extender and C4 Pro and giving them a test flight.

Tony

Comments

Tony Carpenter Mon, 12/15/2014 - 18:11

OK, today was the big hardware racking job. I have now placed all but one piece of my rack gear in place. Most of it is talking to something ( in theory). I say in theory, because, well... I have not quite touched the SSL X-Patch properly other than to tell it what's where. It should in theory work. I spent the last 2 hours of the day making sure my 2 outs to the mastering set of EQ/DBX Quantum and the Eventide went out to the Dangerous Music Monitor ST on a separate pair. Set up an AUX Bus in LPX and checked an A/B of the Master BUS version compared to my AUX Master. I can hear some difference... but I admit it's not the end all yet. I do have a question for audiokid about the RME out to the Orion then AUX, I am right using MADI back through and then out AUX, not using the actual 1/4 inch out of the RME as a separate output again right?.

On an aside the Mackie controllers are hit and miss in Logic Pro X, I think you need to face the right way and wriggle your ear and blink so many times or something. When they do work, most times, they are amazing. The C4 Pro in particular is very nice.

Tony Carpenter Tue, 12/16/2014 - 06:38

Boswell, post: 422366, member: 29034 wrote: Very impressive, Makzimia, but I'm puzzled as to what a graphic EQ is doing in a studio rig like that?

I like having a physical EQ in the final chain, usually had one as a plugin. I it allows me to do any final shaping in case I missed something. Having said that, the AUX does allow me to throw one on of course, we'll see how it goes as I go foward. With the exception of the added Eventide, this is my chain I used in the UK back in 2000.. used to it?.

Tony Carpenter Tue, 12/16/2014 - 06:42

kmetal, post: 422376, member: 37533 wrote: Nice work mak!!! Looks good! The only thing I would add, and purely for the sake of neatness is a cheap [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.furmanso…"]Furman[/]="http://www.furmanso…"]Furman[/]. It'll help keep those pesky power cables tidy. It's nice to see ya putting investments in truly important things like monitoring path integrity, and room response. Good work!

Thank you :). I actually have 3 furmans in use and a UPS if you look closely. The only reason you see any wires is, mic lines and LAN cable all over the back. Of course had to bring power closer for stuff, hence the power boards too. All is covered by the furmans though, other than a USB hub and something I can't remember right now.. one is even a 20amp one. I went with a set of db25 to xlr f or m and or 1/4 or db 25. Used good mic cables then to bridge to each device. I couldn't afford to make custom cables. And yes, even though I couldn't perfectly build my room, I had an idea of what I needed and did the best I could :).

Cheers,

Tony

Tony Carpenter Wed, 12/17/2014 - 02:59

New day new issues... first off, gear unrelated, T'Fusers started falling off the walls.. damn two sided tape not holding. I *think* I may have put too much fiberglass in the backs... looked yesterday into using drywall screws.. nope, looked at wall anchors.. nope.. *le sigh*.

Anyway, new issue I want to nip (possibly) in the bud, if needed. With using 2 Focusrite Octopres, should I be clocking them to anything?. Keep in mind, I know it's a noob question, but, first time I have ever used stand alone multi pres into a AD/DA setup and the RME card now too.

Thanks,

Tony

Boswell Wed, 12/17/2014 - 03:22

You are presumably connecting the two Octopres into the RME card using ADAT lightpipes, so you need to have everything running from the same clock. Because you have two Octopres, you can't let them run on their internal clocks (which would not be synchronized). Since the Octopres do not have wordclock outputs, what you will have to do is take a BNC wordclock out of your RME system to the BNC wordclock inputs of both Octopres and then set them to run on external wordclock.

You will need two 75 Ohm BNC cables, two 75 Ohm T-pieces and a 75 Ohm BNC terminator. Put a T-piece on the BNC wordclock input of each Octopre and connect the two T-pieces with a BNC cable. Put the terminator on the open end of one of the T-pieces (it doesn't matter which). Connect the second cable to the open end of the other T-piece. Since you don't give any details of which RME interface you have, it's hard to be specific, but you probably have a breakout box connected to the RME card on which you should find a BNC wordclock output to plug the other end of the BNC cable into.

Tony Carpenter Wed, 12/17/2014 - 03:40

Hi Bos, actually, due to having the Orion 32 going MADI to the RME HDSPe card, I went with each Pre going out 8 TRS to DB25 in on the Orion 32 for now. I will change one lot to go to patchbay shortly, realised I needed more control that direction. So, Octopres currently into Orion32 then MADI out to RME, RME is providing clock via MADI to the Orion currently. RME goes back via MADI into Orion and out to the DM S ST.

Oh yes, and those Octorpres are MK2 dynamics, and have WC in and OUT, sorry... it's early still.. was stressed up at 3am..

Thanks,

Tony

Tony Carpenter Wed, 12/17/2014 - 03:54

Boswell, post: 422457, member: 29034 wrote: If you are taking analog outs from the two Octopres, their digital capabilities are not being used, so no clocking concerns arise

That's what I figured, had to make sure I wasn't being my usual blonde twit self about something.. LOL.

Thank you sir :) appreciate the confirmation.

Tony Carpenter Wed, 01/07/2015 - 09:12

Greetings all. Progress report. For those that missed it, I got the DBX Quantum upgraded, nice new M/S control amongst that change. I also tuned the Event Opals, not as great of a result as I hoped. For that issue, I am tuning the room with the multiband EQ to settle the peaks and valleys as close to a flat line response as practical.

I have a new issue I need to tackle as I am at the final stages of wiring up for a working rig. You will note from the previous posting I am sorted out as far as preamps and feeding my various monitoring feeds. I am now at the summing point. This I feel is the only problem facing me that I feel a solution, may or may not, be already in my hands still. Keeping in mind Bos's reminder to me of the need only for clocking under digital needs. I have the MOTU Traveller MK3 sitting around, I found it to be a powerful and clean unit when it was all I had some time ago.

So, here comes the question, if I was to feed 2 lots of ADAT off the Orion 32 at 44.1 giving me 8 pairs of stereo (motu getting clock either passed from the Orion, or WC off the RME HDSPe card), does anyone see that as a severe come down in quality when I then AES/EBU that to the DBX and onwards to the Dangerous Music Monitor ST. Will the Orion 32 pass the clock through it is using from the RME, or, will I have to use the WC out of the RME?.

Currently I have no way to send a set of stems out as needed for the system I am aspiring to, and money is definitely not being thrown at that anytime soon.

Thanks,

Tony

pcrecord Wed, 01/07/2015 - 10:04

World clock can be safely past down via ADAT or SPDIF if you have 2 units.
If you enter a third one in the equation, you would need to use WC cables to link them all.
I see no problem using the Traveller MK3 preamps and send the signal through ADAT if you need the extra preamps to complement the Octopre.

I'm a bit curious as how you end up with that buying order. The Orion is such good converter that, my side purchase to it would be high quality preamps before thinking of summing and Dangerous Monitor ST and certainly before trying to glue other units like the Traveller.

Why not doing a garage sail and of anything lower grade and buy a nice set of preamps like the MP32 or some ISA828 or others..

Just my two cents ;)

Tony Carpenter Wed, 01/07/2015 - 10:13

Hi Marco, thanks for the answer,

I actually have more than enough preamps (for mics). The 2 Octopre Mk2 dynamics work well. Also I have the RC-500 Presonus and some Tc-helicon stuff. The Orion 32 is feeding, and being fed by the RME HDSPe card on MADI, they are then feeding the Dangerous Monitor ST x 2 with one path going out to the DBX Quantum EQ and the Eventide and into the Dangerous. That takes care of a "Mastering" type chain and a straight (no stems) feed off the DAW. I would prefer a stem feed, and that is why I am looking at the MOTU to handle that on ADAT NOT into the preamps, and then mix that down and out to the Dangerous. Make more sense?.

Tony

Boswell Wed, 01/07/2015 - 10:14

Makzimia, post: 423338, member: 48344 wrote: So, here comes the question, if I was to feed 2 lots of ADAT off the Orion 32 at 44.1 giving me 8 pairs of stereo (motu getting clock either passed from the Orion, or WC off the RME HDSPe card), does anyone see that as a severe come down in quality when I then AES/EBU that to the DBX and onwards to the Dangerous Music Monitor ST. Will the Orion 32 pass the clock through it is using from the RME, or, will I have to use the WC out of the RME?.

Currently I have no way to send a set of stems out as needed for the system I am aspiring to, and money is definitely not being thrown at that anytime soon.

I'll cover the clocking point first. Clocking in this type of multi-box system serves two functions: (a) it specifies the exact times at which conversions between the analog and digital domains should happen (in both directions), and (b) it gives some timing information about the digital transfers between equipment. The precise timing of the conversion instants specified by (a) is an important factor in the quality of the audio. I have left (b) much more vague than (a) in that, within about half a sample interval, it makes no difference to the quality of the audio when these digital transfers happen. This means that purely digital transfers via protocols such as ADAT lightpipe or AES/EBU can either carry their own clock or be externally clocked by a system master clock and, as long as synchronism is maintained, there will be no data corruption or loss. What you should be careful of is clocking an A-D or D-A converter from the recovered clock of an incoming data stream, as this is likely to give considerably more jitter than an external wordclock delivered by BNC cable. If the Orion is capable of acting as a high-quality master clock, it makes sense to use that throughout your system, either by BNC cable to the boxes that perform domain crossings or else by embedded clocks to boxes that you are using purely in the digital domain.

I can't quite grasp your intended setup from your description. You aim to take 8 stereo pairs (16 channels via ADAT) out of the Orion32 into the MOTU Traveller, and then how does it get down to a single stereo AES/EBU pair to feed the DBX Quantum? Are you envisaging purely digital mixing paths at this stage of your upgrade, or do you already have an analog box of some sort in the process that I have missed?

Tony Carpenter Wed, 01/07/2015 - 10:22

Heya Bos, my head just exploded LOL. Anyway,

Boswell, post: 423345, member: 29034 wrote: I can't quite grasp your intended setup from your description. You aim to take 8 stereo pairs (16 channels via ADAT) out of the [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.antelope…"]Orion32[/]="http://www.antelope…"]Orion32[/] into the MOTU Traveller, and then how does it get down to a single stereo AES/EBU pair to feed the DBX Quantum? Are you envisaging purely digital mixing paths at this stage of your upgrade, or do you already have an analog box of some sort in the process that I have missed?

The MOTU has a mixer, and the on the back options include AES/EBU out, and the mixer allows you to choose outputs for the submix, from memory :).

Keep in mind the actual DAW is interfaced to the RME HDSPe card on MADI. The RME is clocking for the Orion. So, with that in mind all preamps come into the Orion, out to the RME and outputs come back into the Orion and out to the Dangerous. So, if I am getting all channels into the Orion from the RME, I can send some of that out via ADAT. The AES/EBU in would then get sent out as analog out of the DBX Quantum, it has a high quality AD/DA converter, correct?.

Many thanks :)

P.S I warned you I can be more dangerous than knowledgeable.

Tony

pcrecord Wed, 01/07/2015 - 10:57

Makzimia, post: 423344, member: 48344 wrote: Hi Marco, thanks for the answer,

I actually have more than enough preamps (for mics). The 2 Octopre Mk2 dynamics work well. Also I have the RC-500 Presonus and some Tc-helicon stuff. The Orion 32 is feeding, and being fed by the RME HDSPe card on MADI, they are then feeding the Dangerous Monitor ST x 2 with one path going out to the DBX Quantum EQ and the Eventide and into the Dangerous.
Tony

I had an octopre for a month and sold it, fair preamps for the price but no highend.

Makzimia, post: 423346, member: 48344 wrote: The MOTU has a mixer, and the on the back options include AES/EBU out, and the mixer allows you to choose outputs for the submix, from memory :)

The motu has a mixer ; so the orion with higher quality converters. You could use the spdif in/out between the Orion and the Quantum, don't you ??

audiokid Wed, 01/07/2015 - 11:39

Personally, I would master clock from the RME MADI. Once its setup. Pull the USB cable off and you are golden.
I don't know your exact needs but let me say this, less is more. The Orion32 and your RME interface is all you need. Its stellar. If you decide you want to expand your workflow, use an additional converter for capturing like Bos and I describe in other theads.

Keep analog, "analog" and don't get all excited about using every ADDA you have to AD into your perfect match. Orinion32/RME Madi PCIe is great as is. Clock off the RME PCIe. Internal clocking is always better and the less clocking connections you have tangling around, the better.

RME control panel and the SSL X Patch should rock your socks off.

---------------------

Regarding the Monitor ST. http://dangerousmusic.com/media/st-sr-manual.pdf

Okay, here is my setup, maybe you decide a different workflow. This rocks for me.

The ST has digital ins and analog ins and outs
. Do not confuse these while you are sorting out what the heck this thing is all about. Do you need all this, YES! Its a learning in progress.

Main inputs and outputs:
The Monitor ST uses 25 way ‘D’ connectors for the main input and output connections
wired according to the Tascam standard. The signals are arranged on the connectors as
follows (wiring diagrams on next page).
Input 1 Left and Right on channels 1+2
Input 2 Left and Right on channels 3+4
Input 3 Left and Right on channels 5+6
Input 4 Left and Right on channels 7+8
Speaker 1 Left and Right on channels 1+2
Speaker 2 Left and Right on channels 3+4
Speaker 3 Left and Right on channels 5+6
Sub woofers Left and Right on channels 7+8

Choose 2 monitor analog outs of the Orion and put it into one of the 4 analog Monitor ST inputs (You need a Dsub with "analog tascam pinout" ) 1/2, 3/4, 5/6, 7/8.

The ST analog ins are the DA of the converter(s)
Examples: (DAW 2-bus, summing console, mixing console, mastering console, Internet). These inputs allow you to monitor at specific input points of your workflow (recording, mixing, mastering, internet).

The ST Analog Outs are for your monitors OUT to the speakers (A, B, C , SUBS) 1/2, 3/4, 5/6, (7/8 = SUBS)

The digital in's ( NOTE: Tascam digital pinout) are for the optional additional switching system converters.) Which require AES EBU

Its killer system once you realize what the ST monitor controllers is really all about.
Hope this helps.

back to the group.

pcrecord Wed, 01/07/2015 - 12:00

audiokid, post: 423353, member: 1 wrote: Internal clocking is always better and the less clocking connections you have tangling around, the better.

I'm hijacking a bit here but are you saying my masterclock should be my audio interface (saffire 56) instead of the AD96 ??
My actual chain : AD96 (master), UA 4-710 (slave) to saffire 56 (slave), using bnc cables...

audiokid Wed, 01/07/2015 - 12:06

@tony. The RME HDSPe MADI clock would be the best choice including the 10M. Those are a waste of money. I recommend internal clocking, RME PCIe gets no better.

audiokid Wed, 01/07/2015 - 12:10

To expand on my Monitor ST inputs .

DAW1> Orion32 DA > analog stems (summing box, console, etc) 2-bus analog monitor out > Dangerous Monitor Analog Input 1 (Note: speakers A.B.C. w/wo subs can be selected)

DAW2 or capture > Analog master sum (I happen to use the Dangerous Master but you can simply just monitor the sum out of the Orion) uncoupled 2 channel converter (or round trip I suppose) > AD master out > I capture to Sequoia on a second DAW but you could head to a DSD, DA88 etc) >DA ( MasterDangerous Monitor Analog Input 2 (Note: speakers A.B.C. w/wo subs can be selected)

make sense?

Tony Carpenter Wed, 01/07/2015 - 12:24

Hi Guys,

Chris, I have the feeds ( on analog ) fine from the RME (it clocks the Orion) MADI is selected inside the panel for the Orion. I got that on the first day you and I talked about it :). No issues hearing the standard 2-bus stuff. I was just wanting to get a set of stems.

I am now looking at this thread set more, and coming to a possible realization, and how dim I can be :D. What if I use the SSL X Patch as my stem set. I can then just DB 25 that out as analog to back in the Orion ( as I currently have it.. D'oh) or out to the Motu for a separate set for listening purposes (instead of the round trip).

Thanks again...

Tony

Tony Carpenter Wed, 01/07/2015 - 12:28

pcrecord, post: 423350, member: 46460 wrote: so the orion with higher quality converters. You could use the spdif in/out between the Orion and the Quantum, don't you

As Chris and I point out above, we have the MADI in use, and analog out to the Dangerous ST for a 2BUS. Just wanting to settle on best way I can (for now) to get a 8 way stereo stem set, if possible :).

Thanks Marco,

Tony

audiokid Wed, 01/07/2015 - 12:30

Makzimia, post: 423358, member: 48344 wrote: Hi Guys,

Chris, I have the feeds ( on analog ) fine from the RME (it clocks the Orion) MADI is selected inside the panel for the Orion. I got that on the first day you and I talked about it :). No issues hearing the standard 2-bus stuff. I was just wanting to get a set of stems.

I am now looking at this thread set more, and coming to a possible realization, and how dim I can be :D. What if I use the SSL X Patch as my stem set. I can then just DB 25 that out as analog to back in the Orion ( as I currently have it.. D'oh) or out to the Motu for a separate set for listening purposes (instead of the round trip).

Thanks again...

Tony

Yup. But, you are seconds or minimal investment away from stellar I think.

Stand by, I'm trying to think of your workflow and gear on hand...

audiokid Wed, 01/07/2015 - 12:40

This may shed some light.
Yes, the SSL X Patch is like the ST. They are both routers.

To expand on my Monitor ST inputs .

DAW1> http://www.antelope… Orion32 DA > 32 channels of analog stems (summing box, console, etc) 2-bus analog monitor out > Dangerous Monitor Analog Input 1 (Note: speakers A.B.C. w/wo subs can be selected)

DAW2 or capture > 2 channels of analog master out (I happen to use the http://www.dangerou… Dangerous Master but you can simply just monitor the sum out of the http://www.antelope… Orion 32 and input either back to the same DAW or somewhere else.) Connect this monitor out to the Dangerous Monitor Analog Input 2 (Note: speakers A.B.C. w/wo subs can be selected)

If you choose to uncoupled, its the same Dangerous ST input 2 but the monitor out is now coming from capture DA instead of your Orion,
A second two channel ADDA converter is all you need with a simple USB or FW interface .Take the sum off the (Orion, vintage console, master summing etc) and head 2 channels to the capture system AD. ( This could be a DA88, DAW2 etc)

DA master converter out > ( Dangerous Monitor Analog Input 2 (Note: speakers A.B.C. w/wo subs can be selected)

make sense?

audiokid Wed, 01/07/2015 - 12:45

In the hybrid world it all becomes a way to digitally route analog signals. This is what Dangerous Music is doing with the Liaison, Dangerous 2-bus, Dangerous Master and the Dangerous Monitor ST. They are all sharing a similar genius hybrid concept. Routing and hearing analog cause and effect via a straight wire. SPL has it right with their summing and mastering consoles but miss the mark on the monitor and routing system. DM has it all over everyone imho. Chris Muth is the genius at this.

What I do and am sharing here with this community is actually the Dangerous Music workflow of the highest level. Bos and I take it to a top level via uncoupling. Welcome to hearing better and trying to explain something like this lol. :)

Tony Carpenter Wed, 01/07/2015 - 12:52

audiokid, post: 423362, member: 1 wrote: make sense?

That is basically what I have now, minus a summing box. So, keeping in mind, I do currently have more or less what you are doing. I want to now throw the MOTU in as a sum device. If I gave it analog ( I was worried about it's preamps, maybe I shouldn't?) I can definitely come out of it as analog too once it's had the 8 stems fed to it. Issue is, those 8 stems would then only be 4 mono ones (only 4 analog inputs on the motu), meaning 2 stereo pairs. I have 8 analog outs on the MOTU. I could as I say ADAT out 16 channels of 44.1 or 8 channels of 96k of the Orion.

I am quickly giving myself a headache. Glad I played music after lunch LOL.

Thanks,

Tony

audiokid Wed, 01/07/2015 - 12:59

Boswell, post: 422457, member: 29034 wrote: If you are taking analog outs from the two Octopres, their digital capabilities are not being used, so no clocking concerns arise.

Makzimia, post: 423364, member: 48344 wrote: If I gave it analog ( I was worried about it's preamps, maybe I shouldn't?)

This is where I fall short on advice and where Bos, Kurt others understanding matching your inputs can advice . I buy balanced gear meant to do this entire hybrid workflow. Anyone who wants to do this extra step, I avoid unnecessary preamps.

Can you line in and bypass the preamps on the capture converter? You don't need mic pre's or this converter to be clocked. Its super simple here.

Tony Carpenter Wed, 01/07/2015 - 13:08

audiokid, post: 423365, member: 1 wrote: This is where I fall short on advice and where Bos, Kurt others understanding matching your inputs can advice . I buy balanced gear meant to do this entire hybrid workflow. Anyone who wants to do this extra step, I avoid unnecessary preamps.

This part of the equation, I think, I understand already. Bos reminded me of that. The flow I see happening, can happen two ways now.

1. I can use the SSL X - Patch, send the stems into it, and only use one pair out, I presume I can send all 16 channels to one pair in that control panel for the X Patch. If not, then I leave it as is, out of Orion, back into Orion (all via madi of the RME of course).

2. The other way, which eliminates the preamp issue, is, as I started to want to use. Bos answered, but I think he was exasperated by me, not sure if he was saying I was right or not, when I expanded LOL. Anyway, ADAT out of the Orion, SHOULD be clocked by the RME over MADI telling it so, hence, if the MOTU is told it's external clock is coming off the ADAT, which I can do, I can then run that out as a monitor pair to the DBX or just to the Dangerous ST :). With me?.

Cheers and many many thanks!

audiokid Wed, 01/07/2015 - 13:49

Makzimia, post: 423366, member: 48344 wrote: Anyway, ADAT out of the Orion, SHOULD be clocked by the RME over MADI telling it so, hence, if the MOTU is told it's external clock is coming off the ADAT,

Maybe there is more to why Bos suggested this or you need to do this. To me its bad and no better than "average round trip blah". You are clocking and coupled, so why. Forget that idea altogether. (n)

Makzimia, post: 423366, member: 48344 wrote: I can use the SSL X - Patch, send the stems into it, and only use one pair out, I presume I can send all 16 channels to one pair in that control panel for the X Patch. If not, then I leave it as is, out of [="http://www.antelopeaudio.com/en/products/Orion32-Multi-Channel-AD-DA-converter"]Orion[/]="http://www.antelope…"]Orion[/], back into Orion (all via madi of the [[url=http://="http://www.rme-audi…"]RME[/]="http://www.rme-audi…"]RME[/] of course).

This is exactly how I do it, Orion32 into SSL X Patch(s). Done. Use your DAW to route to the Orion SSL ins. Create groups ITB, Stem out to the Orion32, choose which analog 1/8 dsub goes into the SSL XPatch, return back to the In's on the Orion and sum it all " somewhere (round trip or capture)". Its really simple.

In my Config, The Neos and Dangerous Master are simply more ways to route analog audio, much like the Liaison, XPatch etc are. They are options, not requirements!
This business of needing a console soon becomes a pretty obvious step backwards. Use your DAW to DA into the analog matrix and send it along.

The SSL XPatch is a cool deal. I only need one unit for 8 channels now. Its a confusing learning curve too. But, once you get onto this analog/digital routing thingy, it all starts to make great sense. GREAT SENSE!

XPatch. = 1 to 8 Ins/outs > Orion 1 to 8 Ins/ Outs.
9 to 16 ins/out analog processing inserts and returns.

This way you can choose 8 ways to incorporate 8 analog products between the Orion analog I/O. You soon see how one XPatch isn't enough for 32 stems. BUT! As I have discovered, I no longer use analog hardware on the stems. I use the XPatch for a mastering matrix. 8 channels is plenty for this. Its really taking your mixing rig and pushing it all forward into a mastering rig. There is no need to be accumulating redundancies.

Analog (good quality analog) is better closest to the capture.So this means tracking and capturing. :whistle:

As I developed my system, through very detailed listening, I believe there is more benefit in a simple 2-bus mastering matrix. I still use 32 stems but they are all basically summing together via an analog change between the two uncoupled DAW's. This is really where I hear the most benefit out of the hybrid dance. An analog MS mastering process is the bomb. This goes between the two DAW's.

This is why I sold one of my SSL Xpatches. All I need is one XPatch dedicated to my Dangerous Master which is really a M/S 2-bus router.

Follow.

Tony Carpenter Wed, 01/07/2015 - 13:53

audiokid, post: 423368, member: 1 wrote: This is exactly how I do it, [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.antelope…"]Orion32[/]="http://www.antelope…"]Orion32[/] into SSL X Patch(s). Done. Use your DAW to route to the Orion SSL ins. Create groups ITB, Stem out to the Orion32, choose which analog 1/8 dsub goes into the SSL Xpatch, return back to the In's on the Orion and sum it all " somewhere (round trip or capture)". Its really simple.

OK, so there is the real confirmation, I had hoped for (to be honest, didn't want to install the MOTU inline). (y)

So, as I have it now, just need to decide what to stem and print and what to fly out to the DBX, which for my purposes is doing your Dangerous Master job. And onto the Dangerous monitor of course.

Cheers,

Tony

Tony Carpenter Thu, 01/08/2015 - 09:46

Latest update. Walked in the studio this morning. Auralex 2 x 2 foam fell off ceiling.. again. It was up there 4 days without issue, weeks before that.. Putting a bomb under Auralex via Sweetwater about the two sided fail tape.

On a brighter note. I decided to move the Event Opals on to their sides. The reason for this is the positioning of them on the IsoAcoutic stands (when upright) made them far too high above my ears. I turned the speaker tweeters 90 degrees as told, re-positioned my distances to equal and 30 degrees, and started up the command center :D. Big difference immediately, much better!.

I also did some searching about the issue with Logic Pro X losing my MCU Pro each time I started up. Until now, I was removing, re finding each time. Solution, if anyone ever needs to know, simply turn off automatic search, once you have them working. After that, I can load, and close with no issues anymore!. Victory!.

Next job, when I am in the mood, I know right?, is do that routing with the SSL X-Patch. I am just enjoying mixing a song again at the moment to listen to the Event Opals properly now :D.

Tony

audiokid Thu, 01/08/2015 - 14:30

Opals are beautiful!
It took me a few ways to get my just right too. Moving them up 4 inches had quite an effect on the freq below 80hz in my room. Also where I sit . When I am critical mastering, I don't move my head far off the measurement X

Are you using the Event Studio EQ kit? Do you have a screen shot of the low end room measurements?

Tony Carpenter Thu, 01/08/2015 - 14:33

Hi Chris,

audiokid, post: 423412, member: 1 wrote: Are you using the [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.eventele…"]Event[/]="http://www.eventele…"]Event[/] Studio EQ kit? Do you have a screen shot of the low end room measurements?

Nope, but take my word for it, it wasn't pretty!. I need to do it again now I have moved the speakers. I also removed the Mackies from alongside them. I'll do another take tomorrow. I had peaks up as much as +15db on 28hz and 10-15 in two other spots, 65hz and 112hz I think, from memory, and a couple of dips, one near 230hz. I did improve them to about 5-8db up, but then.. As I said, I did initially iron those out on the "master" chain via that old 31 band EQ :D.

I also noted, even just moving them did make a marked difference. I knew it should, I did that with the Mackies at my last place, along with those isoacoustics I was blown away.

kmetal Thu, 01/08/2015 - 19:29

Tony, the TUBE TACK, is the only Aurelex adhesive I have used that is permanent. Everyone who uses the tape or spray, has to re hang their stuff, once in a while. I tube tacked some foam to pegboard, and the screwed the pegboard into the wall/studs, and havering the screws hide underneath the foam. I did this so I didn't ruin the foam when I moved it, and also to have some semi-reflective panels, by flipping them around.

Also the spikes your seeing are pretty common for standard residential aimed rooms. Swings of 30db aren't uncommon. Doors and windows are poor mans bass traps, I know I've made use of them for that :)

Glad your having some fun w your rig, looks like an amazing upgrade!!!!!

x

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