I`ve been reading up one a lot of the topics conserning preamps / Microphones. One thing strikes me: It seems there is a general agrement on the fact that the microphone itself has the biggest influnce on the sound in a signalchain..
So.. cashing out 3K for a Neve.. Is it really worth the money?
Ok.. before everybody jumps me and start hitting (I know Neve has a God-like position in the world of recording) let me just explain what I meant by that sentence.
I was just thinking that maybe (MAYBE..) it would be just as good to get a decent preamp for, lets say 1/3 of price of a Neve, and instead spend more money on a GREAT Mic.. (like a C-800G or something)
Actually.. To be honest, I dont know what I`m rambling on about here. The fact is I REALLY REALLY REALLY want a Neve. Even though its a lot of money..
I guess all I want from you is to, as the topic states, convince me to buy a Neve. I`m this close to buying one. I`m standing on the edge, someone please push me..
By the way.. I seem to be leaning towards the 1073DPA. Is that a good choice?
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I will not convince you to buy a neve pre. I have never used on
I will not convince you to buy a neve pre. I have never used one.
Although, I am really happy with my mackie onyx pres.
BTW, the more and more I record, i've realized the gear doesnt matter as much as the talent and their instruments and respective gear and of course me the engineer.
Stickers wrote: BTW, the more and more I record, i've realized
Stickers wrote:
BTW, the more and more I record, i've realized the gear doesnt matter as much as the talent and their instruments and respective gear and of course me the engineer.
That is indeed true!. I started out recording about 3 years ago. And even though my equipment has basically been the same the whole time, I still can hear a huge quality improvment when I listen to takes from various timeperiods. From my first childish steps to things I`ve recorded just a coupple months ago.
I guess the whole Nevething is in my head.... But still... Its like buying a Ferrari, maybe you dont REALLY need it, but you still want it...
I`m trying to slowly turn my modest setup into something good. So eventually I need more gear... But as I`ve stated above: I couldnt agree with you more; a good engineer can make magic even if the equipment is not hi-tech...
I still would like some statements from people who have actually used a Neve and can compare it to other stuf.
[quote=Twood]Stickers wrote: I still would like some stateme
[quote=Twood]Stickers wrote:
I still would like some statements from people who have actually used a Neve and can compare it to other stuf.
I've used vintage Neve 1073s on several occasions. I own many many preamps, but I don't think I'd ever buy a reissue of a Neve. I would just get a vintage one, it would also hold it's value better. But of course there are issues when buying vintage gear, you have to worry about maintenance and repair, or if it really even it a Neve, some people rip the guts out of these things and then resell them. You have to have the stuff checked before hand by a reliable tech.
Consider the Vintech X73i if you budget is constrained. The Vintech X series preamps has a similar vibe to the classic Neve 1073 in my opinion. I'm a studio owner of over 10 years, and also owner of Atlas Pro Audio (for anyone who doesn't already know).
The best thing to do would be to do some more research and then get your hands on something that interests you and try it out. Maybe book an hour or two in a local studio that has what you are looking for and try it there.
One thing to remember (from my experiences...) many times people
One thing to remember (from my experiences...) many times people are in search of a magic bullet, that once they get it, doesn't live up to their expectations....nothing can describe my disappointment when I first played a 59 Strat, for example...
Nathan is dead on when it comes to trying things out in real world applications before financially committing ..,you may find the Neve sound is NOT what you are after for your particular situation.
One 1073 next to another 1073 can be day and night in their dif
One 1073 next to another 1073 can be day and night in their differences. One clone next another can be almost a perfect mirror image.
No denying the influence Mr. Neve has on the recording world.
Perhaps a Portico.....Its a Neve. It would give you enough budget to get that C800.....which I'll bet a buck will sound SPECTACULAR through the Portico.
But seeing as you are in Europe, your chances of finding a pristine Neve might be a bit better than here...
So.....1073 with a Soundelux U195.
Theres a nice chain.
Follow Nathans advice.
Davedog wrote: So.....1073 with a Soundelux U195. Theres a n
Davedog wrote:
So.....1073 with a Soundelux U195.
Theres a nice chain.
I actually bought two u195 two weeks ago...
As I said, I`ve been using the same mediocre stuff for three years and when I finally got some new equipment (2x soundelux u195.. 1x Royer 121 and 1x Great River NV1-MP) I was so satisfied I got triggerhappy and started thinking "neve`ish" thoughts right away..
Anyway....
I still have some storecredit at Vintageaudio... and I still have some $ "laying" around...
Maybe a John Hardy M2?...
Well, I am a snob! I own, 2 beautiful 1974 built/1978 installed
Well, I am a snob! I own, 2 beautiful 1974 built/1978 installed vintage Neve consoles, with their inductor core equalizers. That's 2, 36 input boards! I am parting one out currently. The microphone preamplifiers also contain the equalizer. This is not a repackaged line converted amplifier, item as so many Neve "microphone preamplifiers", are. These are also not the 1073s but 3115s. Not as versatile an equalizer and not all class A. I have reconditioned the modules and all of the controls and switches are reliable. I am selling them for $1500 each.
I can supply them with or without a power supply (for an additional cost) and of course will include all documentation, regardless.
If you're interested in one or two, contact me at remydavid@cox.net
If you stick an SM57, in front of a guitar amplifier and crank any of the mid-band frequency equalizer controls (to taste) to an extreme position, you will instantly recognize this sound! These are all original.
Just thought I'd mention I was just trying out a Portico and wou
Just thought I'd mention I was just trying out a Portico and would advise getting an older vintage Neve or something else. Once the Portico gets hit with any low end bumps below 15Hz, it temporarily shuts down. I was dissapointed that it also did not have any way to truly ground the unit (wall wart feeling connection). There are better values. Sorry Rupert, this one isn't up to snuff. :(
Alex
I know that this enormous hunger for gear is not "politically co
I know that this enormous hunger for gear is not "politically correct" but still... After about two weeks of experimenting with my new mic`s and the great river pre I got to say: Wow.. I`ve been recording for years with nothing but a Behringer/octopre and some 57`s.. I guess its an OK start and sure, you can get a decent sound if you know what you`re doing...
BUT..
I just did some takes of electric guitar with my new royer 121 & u195 and it is SWEET!!!...
I`ll see if I can post a sample..
The Architect wrote: If you have to be convinced you don't want
The Architect wrote:
If you have to be convinced you don't want it that badly
Yeah I know.. I guess I got carried away.. But still.. Its a Neve... I`ve heard people talking about neve for the last 5 years.. Makes you think: There must be something special about this stuff..
But I`m really happy with my Great River...
Twood...with the mention of your previous chain, I can imagine t
Twood...with the mention of your previous chain, I can imagine the sound of the GR is miles and miles above it in terms of width,depth and tone.
Just remember theres a LOT of pieces to this gear puzzle....A lot of folks have high-end gear and NEVER get the hang of it....The reasons are myriad....but most involve the 'bug'...Once bitten, a lot of decisions are made that might not translate sonically for your individual needs.
Could be a vintage Neve is not a piece that would be correct for you and the sounds you want to achieve.
Could be an API is the right piece. Remy mentions the 3115 Neve module. An actual mic-pre module from a Neve console....Not a line amplifier, or a talk-back module or a sub-bus driver.... This might be the one for you...Who knows??!!
Whatever you choose to add to your collection, remember there are lots and lots of very good sounding pieces to be had....Vintage as well as new.
It all comes down to what your ears,your work methods and your requirements are as to which piece sounds best.
Me personally, I like em all the same in a great big box full of knobs....10 feet of buttons....It can say Neve,API, Harrison,Sony, MCI, any of em.....
Its still gonna be me doing what it is I do.....And its gonna sound similar no matter what it is.
DaveDog wrote: Twood...with the mention of your previous chain,
DaveDog wrote:
Twood...with the mention of your previous chain, I can imagine the sound of the GR is miles and miles above it in terms of width,depth and tone.
Yeah.. It is a long way from "sm58 through a behringer" to "Soundelux through a Great River".
What surprised me most was how much easier it was to get a good sound with that kind of equiment... With acoustic guitar for ex. I`m used to moving the mic(s) around for 2 hours before I am satisfied (sometimes I`m not satisfied at all.. Most of the time actually). But with the 121/u195 it was like stealing candy from a child.. I moved the mics around a few times.. check for any phase problems.. and Voila!!.. The tapes are roling...
But still.. I admit I got carried away. It dont need a Neve.. I know that now. (now that I`ve "landet" and got both feet on the ground)
The API3124 for ex... Seems to be a good choice at a decent price.
RemyRAD wrote: I just listen to your sample and it is very sweet
RemyRAD wrote:
I just listen to your sample and it is very sweet! Nothing like a ribbon microphone I always say! Truly beautiful sound you got. Lovely stereo effect as well. Keep it coming!
Thank You!!... And thats just me fooling around, tryin out the mics. I cant wait to record someone who can actually play guitar..
I played a Strat through a MesaBoogie TremOVerb (2x12 combo). The mics I used was a Royer 121 and a Soundelux u195. The royer went through a Great River ME 1NV and the U195 went through a TLAudio 5001 Quad Valve Preamp. The reverb are from TC Powercore..
I`ll se if I can post the whole thing later...(with vocals)
Falken wrote: correct me if I am wrong but isn't the great river
Falken wrote:
correct me if I am wrong but isn't the great river based on the neve? you've already got it, man. dang.
Yeah I know... But I wanted "The real thing".. But after reading what people have said on this thread, I`ve laid my neveplans to rest... Maybe I should learn how the great river works/sounds before I buy something else.. But I want/need another preamp though..
alexaudio wrote: Just thought I'd mention I was just trying out
alexaudio wrote: Just thought I'd mention I was just trying out a Portico and would advise getting an older vintage Neve or something else. Once the Portico gets hit with any low end bumps below 15Hz, it temporarily shuts down. I was dissapointed that it also did not have any way to truly ground the unit (wall wart feeling connection). There are better values. Sorry Rupert, this one isn't up to snuff. :(
Alex
This is a follow up to my previous post. Out of this posting, one of the folks at Rupert Neve Designs went out of his way to track me down to get a description of the problem and get it resolved. It might just be that I was testing a bumm unit. Only time will tell, but since they went out of their way to get it resolved, I call this extraordinary customer service. Just thought I'd mention that.
dude, the great river is one of the best pres out there...PERIOD
dude, the great river is one of the best pres out there...PERIOD. If you can't achieve what you want with that, then you should give up or start looking at other factors such as room acoustics and mic placement. In all honesty, the more distance i get from my "spending days", the more I realize i can get by with a good 2 channel pre and my avalon u5 DI's. If you need more channels, maybe look into something with a markedly diff. flavor from the GR (which would not be a Neve). Me personally, I'd take the Great River over a strict Neve clone. Also check out Seventh Circle Audio
Best
PCM wrote: dude, the great river is one of the best pres out the
PCM wrote:
dude, the great river is one of the best pres out there...PERIOD. If you can't achieve what you want with that, then you should give up or start looking at other factors such as room acoustics and mic placement
Yeah I know what the Great River can do and I`m extremely satisfied with it. In fact thats what started this whole tread. (I dont know if you`ve read through the whole thing...)
I got a bit carried away by the amazing sound of the GR that I instantly wanted more...
Twood wrote: there you go... Link removed Its nothing big.. j
Twood wrote: there you go...
Link removed
Its nothing big.. just me strumming some tunes while I tried out the mics. Its an mp3 so the quality is not that good, but still.. you get the picture...
Wow. The sound is really excellent, even as an mp3. I assume you were recording to tape?
It's funny..At our (outside broadcast)company, we are getting ri
It's funny..At our (outside broadcast)company, we are getting rid of our (digital) neves, because they are terribly unreliable and the service is completely awful..they crash and do weird stuff..really, really awful..
one of our two neves we actually took out of the truck and is temporarily replaced by a yamaha after fucking up another broadcast.
The funny thing is, the neve name is so huge (like ferrari), that the company can do this, and still everybody will want one.
Example: I was mixing a dvd on the neve with a producer, and I was really embarassed by the automation crashing, random bursts of white noise from the speakers(no joke!), and more crap..
I told the producer; well i'm sorry, these neves suck, and we're replacing them soon..He was like: oh,really?? wow, maybe I can buy them for my studio!!
I dont doubt the 70'ies neve stuff sounds great though..
(sounds great btw, twood..)
Hey, huub! That's what I have heard about these digital "imita
Hey, huub!
That's what I have heard about these digital "imitation Neves" that they are terrible, this, from my friends that work at MSNBC.
At NBC 4 in Washington DC, they purchased a Neve series 55, analog board to replace the 1974 vintage one (that I used for over 10 years, which I purchased, goody goody). The 55 series console has been in service since 1996. It has turned into such a piece of CRAP that the maintenance guys cannot keep it going. It was constructed with all surfacemount components, as cheaply as a crappy PA Board! It is so awful that it can hardly be used for production purposes at all, even to tape. Forget about thinking about doing anything live on the air with it. It was built by the Siemens Corp. which has recently sold off "Neve", I believe to a faction that includes Peter Gabriel? Even the recent large six-figure analog recording consoles had improperly specified electrolytic capacitors in them that all leaked "goo" all over the circuit boards and everyone of them had to be replaced! We're talking thousands here, not in expenditures (which that retrofit did cost) but in numbers of capacitors! So forget about even the recent analog versions of these cheap imitation, Siemens produced "Neves", they aren't worth the trouble.
There is just nothing that sounds like the old vintage versions. And in all probability the obvious reasons why all of the biggest hit makers still track through them for their current projects. I mean why do people keep trying to reinvent the wheel?? " People want more pristine and accurate preamplifiers...." Not those in the know that know the grungy older consoles still sound the best and much more musical and organic, at least for rock and roll! Not to mention the extraordinary sweetness you get using this "grungy old stuff" on orchestral material. The newer better equipment, I feel is just, newer cheaper and if not cheaper, just ripoff oriented to make you think it's better! " A sucker is born every minute." Unfortunately, even if you try to make an imitation version of these seventies vintage pieces, they still cannot obtain the original "Marinar radar" Transformers. I get quite a kick out of these old Transformers as I believe they were built for marine radar systems and certainly not for audio as Rupert used them for. I can only imagine that the Jensen version microphone Transformers are being used with the vintage discrete operational amplifier circuits in the new " vintage 1073", etc. versions? The Jensen's are about the best Transformers for microphones and probably better than what Rupert used but again people still try to reinvent the wheel and cannot get those old "crappy radar transformers". May be the Jensen's are better but they don't sound like the old ones and that was the happy character of that original vintage sound that everybody still wants!
I'm also not sure what Rupert is trying to produce with his new units? This thing with the tape emulation that " includes an actual tape head"?? Even that concept doesn't quite cut it with me. You could take an old analog tape recorder that has 3 heads, remove the playback head and put it up to the face of the record head. You have now created a "flux loop". Now even though you're going through the pre-emphasis and de-emphasis circuitry along with the bias oscillator, This still does not emulate the nonlinearities of actual tape! What was he thinking? Maybe he has developed a nonlinear distortion generator??? He has also developed a "new microphone transformer" which he says is better than the old ones (probably because he cannot get the old ones anymore) You can do the above with an old analog tape recorder as long as it has good "bias traps" to prevent the 100,000++ Hertz bias frequency from passing through the playback electronics. Try it! Or just try tracking through your analog multitrack in record/play mode while feeding its playback output directly to your digital multitrack recorder input. Now you have true analog sound without print through and none of the high frequency losses of continuous playback passes through overdubbing! Why buy emulators when you can have the real thing??? I think I will have a Coca-Cola now.
The vintage and real " reel" thang
Ms. Remy Ann David
wow! that is just supersweet you got to buy the old neve! we got
wow! that is just supersweet you got to buy the old neve! we got rid of an analog studer mixer a while ago , wich was really nice, but i just dont have space (and soundproofing!) for a tracking area..
the new neve ownership and marketing bells and whistles(such as a 'digital 88, with analog sounding eq) makes me very, very cynical..
anything digital made by neve is bound to be utter, utter crap..
and i'm not excagerating(how does one write that anyway?)on this one..
RemyRAD wrote: ... You could take an old analog tape recorder
RemyRAD wrote: ... You could take an old analog tape recorder that has 3 heads, remove the playback head and put it up to the face of the record head. You have now created a "flux loop". Now even though you're going through the pre-emphasis and de-emphasis circuitry along with the bias oscillator, This still does not emulate the nonlinearities of actual tape!
correct
it's all about how the magnetic material gets aligned during the record process.
I don't think anyone has produced a solid state or software simulation of it .... yet.
:roll:
"You could take an old analog tape recorder that has 3 heads, re
"You could take an old analog tape recorder that has 3 heads, remove the playback head and put it up to the face of the record head. You have now created a "flux loop". Now even though you're going through the pre-emphasis and de-emphasis circuitry along with the bias oscillator, This still does not emulate the nonlinearities of actual tape!"
RAD, have you tried this?
I actually had plans to try this out and see if there are any benefits, can you comment any further? Like what effect was still left in the process.
Maybe I can save myself some headaches?
You don't need to settle for a "decent" preamp for 1/3 the price
You don't need to settle for a "decent" preamp for 1/3 the price of a Neve; There are many *GREAT* preamps in the $1K-$2K range (many based on Neve designs) that will still leave some cash in your pocket for a killer mic. More-so if you're willing to buy used.
I know it's a tall-order, but *try* not to get hung-up on a name and just use your ears. You'll end up happier (and possibly richer) for it...