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Remixed on Cubes

I wasn't happy with my daughters last mix so I remixed it. There is something to be said around mixing to the bass in pop music. I tried a new approach and think I discovered something valuable through this..
Also, completely mixed this through Cubes.

If you can remember what the comments before we lost some posts from our database crashing the other day, and get passed it being her first song ever singing, here is the new mix. Thanks for listening and sharing comments on the sound.

Before:
[MEDIA=soundcloud]audiokid/sage-finishline2015-02-05-heavy-proc-mas[/MEDIA]

After

[MEDIA=soundcloud]sagebialuski/sage-bialuski-the-finish-line[/MEDIA]

Comments

anonymous Thu, 02/12/2015 - 20:49
My goal on this has been to learn how to improve bass in a busy mix. I'm now thinking a sidechain on the kick/bass would really complete that bottom end. The kick is a bit dominant in spots. I want the two to gel a bit more.

I want the bass freq to reach below the kick on this but still allow the kick to have that in your face thing. I have to admit, its tough doing this.

I'm going to post another example where i use this effect. The beauty of ITB compression is whats comes next.
Any tips on this, please share!

anonymous Fri, 02/13/2015 - 11:00
ClarkJaman, post: 425016, member: 42802 wrote: "It's a love and hate relation between pain and success." I like that! Did she do all the music herself? Sounds good. :)
Thanks, She wrote the lyrics, piano and sang. The lyric are perfect for the Canada Winter Games. We're getting great feedback now.

I'm liking these mixes a lot more. # 2 on this one? Should I make it the Master?

I've never mixed solely on cubes. You can hardly hear the subs so its easy to over do it. But, the mids don't lie. I'm going to try and remember what i did on this last mix!
Thanks for the input, this project is really important.

DonnyThompson Fri, 02/13/2015 - 12:56
Chris...

I listened to every version that you've posted this far. I like the most recent version the best. Nice, tight definition on the bass, great space and depth.

The only thing I would point out is that I am hearing a bit of sibilance here and there on your daughter's vocal track. I don't know if this something you've already heard - but decided to keep because it's acceptable for more current vocal production trends - or if you maybe hadn't heard it yet.

I'm hearing it the most around 1:23 and 1:39 - and maybe I'm just being picky. It could also just be me - I seem to be ultra sensitive to sibilance these days, for whatever reason. I guess I'm suggesting that you take another listen and listen for what I'm hearing. If it's okay on your end, then it's just me. As I said, I seem to be super-sensitive to sibilance these days. I can't even tell you why. I wish I could.

Everything else sits very nicely. I can see where this song would have gotten the interest it did. It's upbeat, positive, energetic and youthful, and just as importantly, the recording sounds great. Not to downgrade your daughter's contribution, because she did a great job, but I'm sure that one of the reasons they are attracted to it, is because if it is chosen, they won't have to do anything to it. It's ready for broadcast right now.

Check that section fr vocal sibilance - let me know if it's really there or if it's just me.

Nice job to both of you. ;)

anonymous Fri, 02/13/2015 - 13:05
Cool thanks! Its getting a real buzz.
The sibilance is there. She sang this with a mouth full of braises lol. Poor kid, I was on her as much as she could take without killing her vibe. They are off now and she talks so much better too!
This has been such a motivating song and experience for her.
After the big VIP opening today she came down to the studio and gave me a big kiss telling me how much she loved the music business.
I'm a happy Dad today.

anonymous Fri, 02/13/2015 - 13:24
Indeed.!

I actually used our Object dessing method in Sequoia to remove them as much as I could ( love that) without it being noticeable. Braises are wicket ess and sluring creators.
I am also using bit distortion on the background vox which is some of what you hear but it added the youthful grit that is one of those "tradeoffs".

Thanks again. I've printed a few dozen now.

DonnyThompson Fri, 02/13/2015 - 14:00
I get that bit distortion is part of the modern sound, and understand why you used it. I've been waiting for a chance to experiment with it myself, I just haven't had an opportunity yet arise where it would be useful. The style I'm working with these days is that "very smooth" sounding style, reminiscent of late 70's AOR; artists and bands like Rundgren, Ambrosia, Player, Gino Vanelli, Pablo Cruise, etc., are all pretty similar to the music styles I'm working with right now. I don't think that bit distortion would play into these styles, but, maybe I'm wrong? I'm certainly willing to keep an open mind and be told differently. ;)

I love Samp/Sequoia's object based editing for de-essing. In fact, since I started using Samp Pro X, I haven't used a de-essing plug since... not once.

It's so much nicer to be able to zone in on just the sibilance and either reduce the level, EQ just that part, or, do both.

It sounds so much more natural, because unlike a de-esser, it's not also removing those pleasing frequencies that exist around the culprit frequencies, those frequencies that you want to keep.

Samp's Object Editing is perfect for this.

:)

kendo radnaksi Sat, 02/14/2015 - 14:49
Sorry for late reply..I m located in asia..I just wants to know whether the song you posted is only mix version and havent been mastered..I like the way it sound..big and nice headroom..I m using protools 7 before but drop it and changed to logic instead..but I like the way samplitude sounded when bounce in the box...at the moment I m into otb with some additional outboards just for trying out and comparing results...

EricWatkins Sun, 02/22/2015 - 07:55
This is really nice work. I'm listening with a pair of Focal Twin 6be's and a cheaper Sub, M-Audio BX-8. I really like the kick in the 2nd version as it had more low-air to it to me. They all sound pretty good after that. For not being mastered, it is plenty bright to me. The sibilance was mentioned and I'm not overwhelmed by it, but I wonder if it's just not an overall high-end thing as I hear other elements that sound like they have a nice, not over the top, but good amount of high air on it. Just my opinion. Surely you reference more than just your cubes? Do you mean like Avatone Cubes? Regardless, great job!

anonymous Sun, 02/22/2015 - 08:08
EricWatkins, post: 425328, member: 31220 wrote: Surely you reference more than just your cubes? Do you mean like [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.avantone…"]Avatone[/]="http://www.avantone…"]Avatone[/] Cubes?
I have other monitors but I purposely only used Cubes for this. Yes, Active Avatones

EricWatkins, post: 425328, member: 31220 wrote: The sibilance was mentioned and I'm not overwhelmed by it, but I wonder if it's just not an overall high-end thing as I hear other elements that sound like they have a nice, not over the top, but good amount of high air on it.
Thanks, There are other elements in this that could be perceived as sibilance I suppose.

EricWatkins, post: 425328, member: 31220 wrote: Regardless, great job!
Thanks.

anonymous Sun, 02/22/2015 - 15:33
After hanging out at the venues and listening to this for a week I felt it was lacking upper mids and some volume now. Seems the DJ's can't turn the volume up. Its unbelievable how we have gone from knowing what a volume control was to this generation where they don't even think about it. If its not the same volume as all the other crushed tracks, they stand there wondering what to do. Unbelievable .
So, I ended up with the #2 version of the OP which is the first one in this post, thanks for all the suggestions!
[MEDIA=soundcloud]sagebialuski/sage-bialuski-the-finish-line

Then
Here's my slightly crushed mastered version of # 2.
[MEDIA=soundcloud]audiokid/finishline-soundcloud-master2

DonnyThompson Tue, 02/24/2015 - 04:08
Nice job on reigning in the sibilance on the vocal. It's still nicely present and bright without having those previous prevalent hard "S's".

IMO, I prefer the first version you've posted above, as opposed to your 'slightly crushed" mix... but take that with a grain of salt, because I'm not hip to the current sounds and styles like you are.

Nice job Chris. Maybe I need to do more mixing through my old Auratone 5C's ;)

anonymous Tue, 02/24/2015 - 07:25
DonnyThompson, post: 425396, member: 46114 wrote: IMO, I prefer the first version you've posted above
Thanks
Thats the one I chose too but the second sounds closer to all the other tracks when comparing it to all the other crushed music in the venues.
Its ironic that the crushed version we all prefer less, blends better with the other commercial stuff in their playlist.:eek: Isn't that nuts.

anonymous Tue, 02/24/2015 - 08:41
DonnyThompson, post: 425396, member: 46114 wrote: Nice job on reigning in the sibilance on the vocal.
Hey Donny, to clarify, I never reigned in any sibilance or changed a thing. The first mix of these last two just posted is exactly the same mix as the OP version everyone prefers.
I simply reposted it again to compare it on the same post so we could easily compare it to the crushed master 2, which ironically cuts better in the venues.
Regarding sibilance, as per our conversation, are you by chance listening to this with your new monitoring tweaks? (y)

anonymous Tue, 02/24/2015 - 08:47
Kurt Foster, post: 425405, member: 7836 wrote: a combination of cubes ns10's and hugoid mains .... there's a reason this has been how things have been mixed for years. mix mostly on the small speakers ... jumping up to the mains once in a while to reference the lows ...
Words of advice. I sure hear this now Kurt! I'm a believer, which is why I'm posting this here too. I have to admit, I would never imagined I could get a mix sounding like this on cubes. I threw all caution to the wind and just went for it , thinking, okay... lets see what happens if I just mix this on Avatones. To make it even more interesting, I unplugged my mains so I wasn't even tempted. $450.00 monitors. Go figure.
Plus.... 100% ITB, only a few plug-ins and one limiter at the end.

DonnyThompson Tue, 02/24/2015 - 10:03
"....Hey Donny, to clarify, I never reigned in any sibilance or changed a thing. The first mix of these last two just posted is exactly the same mix as the OP version everyone prefers.
I simply reposted it again to compare it on the same post so we could easily compare it to the crushed master 2, which ironically cuts better in the venues.
Regarding sibilance, as per our conversation, are you by chance listening to this with your new monitoring tweaks?..."


I didn't even think about that... this must be the case if you haven't changed anything.... I sure am one dumb sum'bitch. LOL

anonymous Tue, 02/24/2015 - 10:18
Kurt Foster, post: 425408, member: 7836 wrote: when you think about it it really makes sense. most systems that music is listened to on are pretty sh*tty. mix on sh*tty speakers for playback on sh*tty speakers. the reason they use cubes and yami's is it's a known quantity. kinda like why PT is a standard.

Exactly.

I'm thinking I've been pretty clueless mixing on such elaborate speakers now. I mean, so what that my mains sound so good here. All the sheen and subs I hear has obviously been misleading me. Pro Audio is such a detailed thinking industry, in some regards this is our worst enemy because it ain't translating to the crowd lol! Nice sheen on speakers make it easy to overlook honky mids.

Mids are where a mix lives so I think small speakers pretty much nailed it for me. I've known this for years but I obviously didn't go to the extreme and try hard enough on these. All through this mix I kept thinking I was going to kill the mids when in fact, I was actually avoiding the excessive use of hpf and top end push.
Getting the mids right, I hardly touched the top and bottom on all the tracks right to the end. At the end of the day the high end is plenty clear and smooth.

Having analog Pultec EQ's are partly to credit here. I never used them on this but the MEQ-5's taught me a lot about mids.
Another reason why I posted this last "crushed mix" was to bring a personal observation here. The next mix I do on these, when I have it to where it sounds good to me, (where we all seem to prefer) , I will add 2 db back in the upper mids because this seems to be where the commercial norm is pushing it. I've done that for years on masters but that never translated right until now either. I'm hoping the next mix gives me the same results.
Kurt Foster, post: 425405, member: 7836 wrote: a combination of cubes ns10's and hugoid mains

hugoid, I've never heard that term, what does it mean?

anonymous Tue, 02/24/2015 - 10:39
Kurt Foster, post: 425414, member: 7836 wrote: from the latin; largeis-maximus .......

thanks!

Ah that's the old school American/ Latin influence. In Canada we use words from Starbucks!
Grande, Venti & Trenta
hehe. Or, lets not forget our French influence too... Grand!

on the East coast and up north we just say, "Big". :D
x

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