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What is a good Delay and echo unit please?

I have tried quite a few Delay/echo units in the past [Effectrons, Furman, Digitechs e.t.c] but those old school units are not as clean as like the later Lexicon Jamman for example, the problem with the jamman is it is not a Delay. I am seeking to purchase a very CLEAN sounding 19" delay/echo unit, can anyone recommend any please? BTW, I use the delay/echo unit for "music" playback and not for mic or recording purposes.

Comments

mikehende Tue, 04/12/2011 - 15:39
Thanks, I just got this from another thread, which of these would you ay would provide the best delay and echo with best sound quality?




Classic units:
Lexicon PCM41 & PCM42
[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.rolandus…"]Roland[/]="http://www.rolandus…"]Roland[/] SDE 3000, SDE 1000 and SDE 2500
Yamaha D1500
TC Electronics 2290, M5000
AMS 1580
Eventide H3000, H3500, GTR4000,DSP4000, DSP4500

Decent newer units:
TC Electronics D2
Any new Eventide model
Nothing else I can recall that is worthy.

moonbaby Tue, 04/12/2011 - 17:54
As a previous owner of the D1500 (as well as a guzillion others over the years), I can say that it WAS a decent unit when it was introduced--in the 1980's -- but the 8-bit audio from back then is pretty "grungy" (dirty, noisey, lots of digital artifacts).

You are not detailing WHY you want this for a "music mix"...is it to delay feed remote loudspeaker systems in a facility?
If it is just to be used as a special effects box, there are a number of newer boxes from already-named manufacturers like Lexicon, TC, Eventide, and Yamaha. Sure, they CAN do more than just a delay(but don't HAVE to), but that's to be expected in these days of techno beats and such. The audio quality of the "modern" DSP boxes is so much better...

BTW, the models YOU listed are predominantly from an earlier era (the 80's/90's) ... any reason why?

mikehende Wed, 04/13/2011 - 04:23
Yes, I need a 19" unit only as an fx box to add echo and delay to regular songs when playing music. I purchased the Lexicon Jamman becuase the echo is a LOT cleaner than the Digitechs, Effectrons and Art Multiverbs unit I had in the past but I need to have the delays like the others mentioned and with the Jamman I am not getting those delays, I think the Jamman is more for looping, sampling and echo and not a Delay unit so I am looking around for a more modern but lower end unit which will give me the delays like those older unit mentioned. The models listed in my previous post was taken from another thread on delays, I have not heard them myself. To simplify this, I would like the same echo and delays of the older units mentioned in this post just that I need a unit which will produce less distortion and much cleaner or quality sound.

Davedog Wed, 04/13/2011 - 10:44
Everything is better than the older Digitech and Effectron units. They were both noisy and primarily an offshoot from the guitar oriented pieces that both companies sold a million of ... TCElectronics is what you want to look at. Unless you like really 'heavy' effects, then Lexicon. The list you provided has some of the best of the classic old-school effects boxes and they are all still viable....and still commanding a high price. You'll still be looking at a grand plus for any Eventide. And good luck finding any SDE units. They are primarily delays. I have owned all of them and still kick myself for selling my prime condition PAIR of SDE3000's. I still have a pair of 1000's that get used once a year and for odd little repeats. Nothing else. The digital reverbs found in recording programs and plug-ins are so much more developed than the older stuff. And noiseless.

TC M-One XL. This is a very good box with two engines, lots of presets, and tap delay available on any program. You can alter and save any of the presets as well build your own. The reverbs are deep but they are also transparent. It never gets in the way of the program. M5000 is a very nice unit also. If you want big time then the upper end stuff is fantastic. Digital controllers and the whole nine yards.

mikehende Wed, 04/13/2011 - 11:01
The only Reverb I have ever liked is the original Spring reverb of the old Pioneer units, i have the SR303 rackmounted on my rig so i have reverb covered, now all i need is the delay and echo, I am more leaning towards the TC Electronics D2 becuase I cannot afford the other higher ends one mentioned here, think I try trading my Lexicon Jamman for it.

Boswell Mon, 05/16/2011 - 05:20
The quality of a reverb has more to do with the algorithms employed rather than the conversion standards. A good reverb unit will give good results with whatever conversion standards the designer saw fit to employ.

Many of the earlier Lexicons had the spec you mentioned (maybe that's where you got it from?), and they were excellent units, not only for their day, but also compared to some of the more recent products available that on paper have a higher-spec conversion and clock rate.

Davedog Tue, 05/17/2011 - 13:13
The BEST reverb is the one that works for the job its given. I could care less about the numbers attached to any of the boxes listed, I only care about how it fits into the music its being asked to effect. There is no magic bullet for any of this. There are definately better built and better designed boxes, but they arent always the sound needed for specific tracks.

So having several to choose from is always a good thing.

You still have never delineated what your primary use for this device is going to be. Adding verb to recorded tracks is one thing.....having a verb in a rack of guitar effects is another.

mikehende Wed, 05/25/2011 - 09:04
I think I have narrowed down my needs guys after much research so maybe you guys can now advise me better please?

I am essentially looking for a Delay and echo unit but mainly Delay, what I would like is to have the same functionalities or options of the analog type of delays like the effectrons or Digitech RDS series BUT without the noise, my research is telling me that a unit's "bit" is what determines the noise level? So an 8 bit unit will sound much more noisy than a 24 bit unit? If that is correct then can anyone tell me which units there are out there which are 24 bit but can give me the same option as the older units mentioned? Please note that I do not necessarily need the knobs to adjust the delays like in the older units but as a first preference if I could find a quieter more modern [or digital?] unit with those same knob options [feedback, speed, delay time e.t.c] this would be ideal but if not then I guess a "digital" unit which offers those same functionalities will have to do but I need something better or quieter than the ART Multiverb type units, any recommendations please?

mikehende Wed, 05/25/2011 - 14:38
One guy just told me that I need something like the pcm 42, he says a 16 bit unit will sound just as clean as my lexicon Jamman which is also a 16 bit unit BUT with a 16 bit unit like the pcm 42 I will have the front button controls like th older 8 bit analog delays mentioned, is this accurate info guys? If so, I definitely cannot afford the pcm 42 so are there any other delays similar to the pcm 42?

LittleJohn Sun, 05/29/2011 - 07:19
I deliberated on this alos, for quite a while. About a year ago, I purchased a Lex PCM 92 and LOVE it.
Others will likely have differing opinions, but this unit sounds extremely good, has great controls, and perfect I/O (for my workflow)
Key advantages:
You can load up the engines with delay feeding reverb. why is that cool ? because the delay can be set to the song tempo and the reverb pre-delays cannot. thus this muti-step is very contemporary -- tempo tap right on the front of the box.
2) the analog outputs are always active, even when using the digital inputs. Why is this cool ? because you can invoke the SEND from the DAW but not have to bring it back in to the DAW. ok, why is that cool -- 2 reasons, can apply send with DAW and analog route to monitor and record mixes (which is actally where you want it to be if you are doing integrated ITB/OTB like I do.

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