Sue,
My guess is that you decided not to blow
your money on a one-time shot in a studio, and have decided to become part of the DAW
phenomenon. Congrats!
Top Ten reasons for choosing ProTools:

1) ProTools Rocks!
2) 001 has the best bang for the buck in
it's price range.
3) Very user friendly.
4) It runs on a Mac.

5) Excellent interface.
6) Standard of the industry.
7) Digidesign User's Conference (The DUC).
8) Solid, established, American company.
9) Excellent upgrade policy.
10) 'Cause audiokid uses it...

For less than $5000 you can be up and running. Shop carefully on the internet, and
you can get good deals on every piece of gear you'll need. Check the Digi website for
compatibility before you buy, AND consult with the pros on this site or on the DUC for
the best recommendations.
You'll find that, with ProTools, pros will
bend over backward to help you every step of the way. You just can't get this kind of
never-ending support from any other company or users.

Hey, now thats what I call a good reply!

Pro Tools is so sweet I can't say enough about it. If you buy a PT rig you will be with the best.

Go for it!

Have you ever heard a producer ask an engineer if they had "Digital Performer", or "Logic" in an audio situation? No- they always say "Do you know "Pro-tools"! If I have a problem with one of those 'swap-meet' daw's, I'm screwed. If I have a problem with Pro-tools, I can call about 20 people & ask questions (plus the web support). If your doing MIDI-intensive stuff, you might wanna look at the others. But it's just a matter of time before PT's midi is just as good as the rest.

I am definitely a beginner in recording & mixing. Up until a year ago I've been aquiring different gear (mics/pre's/mixing boards/adats/effects/computer/logic/etc...)

When I decided I REALLY wanted to get into this, I researched and found out an investment in ProTools was the ONLY real choice. (I always research things to death on major purchases)

I wouldn't have trusted any other system or company. (DAW related)

After 8mo's, I'm still elated with the purchase. I feel now I have a studio, not some studio equipment.

Hi Sue,

>

Without knowing exactly what you want to do, it maybe that PTools isn't the best way to go. If you are doing exclusively MIDI then Logic would be a much better choice for you than PTools. If on the other hand you are doing a lot of audio recording, Digi 001 gives you, IMHO, the best price to sound quality ratio of any of the packages currently available.

Going up a step, the same is true for the PTools TDM. Going for a full system with a Pro-Control you are looking at around $40K but again in that price range PTools gives you the best quality/flexibility.

SonOfSmaug mentioned that PTools is an industry standard, most large professional studios have an edit suite fitted with PTools. This means that if you want to get a "big studio" feel in your music you can take your Digi 001 mix and in theory integrate it easily into a big studio without having to start again from scratch.

I'm a great fan of PTools but don't get me wrong. If I had an unlimited budget I would probably still use PTools but only for editing. I would choose other (non DAW) equipment for recording, mixing and mastering.

Greg

refer to the "Soundscape" thread

Greg , what would you buy?

It's going into my cottage studio, for personal use but I want to produce the best sound I can. I want something that is pretty easy to opperate but I will hire someone as well in the end if needed. I understand the computer a bit too. Mac seems to be a good choice. I'm very excited!

I'm okay with spending about $40.000 if it's going to hold it's value. Pro Tools sound like allot of producers are going that way. You say it is good as well but better for editing. I'm a bit confused now. I understand about digital noise and if you use good preamps it makes things warmer. Could I get a complete system for that amount?

thanks.

Sue,
YOU'RE OK WITH SPENDING $40,000???
I remember your 'First time in a studio'
post, I was there. You are even more of a newbie than I am, and I sure wouldn't be OK
with spending $40,000 on recording gear!
Don't take that badly, or as an insult, PLEASE! As a fellow RO member, I'd simply like to give you a different perspective, a little advice, and as much help as possible.
Most of the people who make that sort of a large investment in recording gear have the schooling, training, knowledge, and
experience to use it, unless they just hit the lottery. Unless you, or someone very close to you, has all of that, you may be biting off more than you can chew, and you may be purchasing beyond your current needs.
If you are hell-bent on buying a system of that caliber, I strongly suggest that you get a lot of input from top-notch producers and engineers before doing ANYTHING. If it were me, I wouldn't even consider laying down that kind of cash unless I had first gone to school for technical training. If
you can't take full advantage of your investment, and can't fully understand and
operate the equipment, then what's the point?

Hi Sue,

>

It's not going to hold it's value. The digital recording industry is based on technology, and technology goes out of date quite quickly. Fortunately Digidesign (the makers of PTools) have a decent upgrade policy but you will still have to look at a certain amount of re-investment every couple of years.

>

PTools is the best multi-track audio editing out there. For mixing, the plugins are good and I'm sure will improve but they are not quite at the level of the best hardware equivalents. Neither is the sound quality of PTools itself quite as good as the top end desks and recording systems. To get this highest level of quality though you will need to double your $40K and then put a zero on the end!

>

I think you probably will need to hire someone in. PTools is quite easy to use relative to other products in it's price range. However, by design it is quite complex, which allows for all the features and flexibility required in a professional product. Although there is a learning curve just to understand how it all works, the real learning curve is in understanding how to apply that flexibility to create the sounds you are looking for.

>

If you are talking about the PTools system alone, yes you could get a complete system for roughly that amount. Mac G4, PTools TDM Mix Plus, Pro-Control + Fader Pack, Apogee AD8000 ADC, various plugins. If you are including mics, pre-amps, studio monitors, etc., you will probably need to add another $10,000 - $15,000. Bare in mind also that to get the best out of this setup you will probably need a specialist to come in and apply some acoustic treatment to your live and control rooms.

I know a lot of this sounds negative but in the price range we're talking about or even if we were to double it there is nothing out there I would recommend above PTools.

Hope this helps,

Greg

There are some concessions you could make in that range to keep your quality the same.

I opted for a HUI to save several thousand dollars. It allowed me to buy a nice desk, treat my room well, collect a few nice preamps & compressors, a WHOLE lot of cabling, a BUNCH of plugins, etc...

This I can build on as the needs arise.

Just my .02

Hi MMazurek,

A HUI + a nice desk.

Even if you are talking about something like a d8b + a HUI, I would far rather have a ProControl. The ProControl is more flexible and quicker/easier to use than a HUI + desk. It would also be more familiar to any engineers that Sue hire's in.

Greg

I'm sorry, in saying nice desk I meant a physical desk to put it in (not mixing desk). I bought an Argosy console to custom fit the HUI. The extra cash for the difference went for the mic pre's etc. I would have loved a ProControl, but needed clean signal paths in to PT right away. Also didn't want to work with just a mouse for a while. The HUI seemes a nice 'in between' with its monitoring, dedicated buttons, extra features over the CM Automation peice.

I only chimed in because I just spent about $40,000. I think the ProControl IS worth the money, but I had to sacrifice for immediate functionality. (I won't have anyone hired in either) This is my personal studio in my home.

I disagree with the earlier assessment that Pro Tools is the best in sound quality. Yes, I agree that most professional recording studios are still set in their ways, and generally still use Pro Tools exclusively. This alone might be the only reason, in my mind, to get Pro Tools . However, it is, quite simply, WAY overpriced. This includes the TDM plugins which are overpriced as well. There are numerous, much! cheaper systems that can be put together where the sound quality of the recordings is on an equal level with Pro Tools.

As one example of a proprietary system that has gained substantial favor in Europe (XTC recorded their most recent album on it, and it sounds awesome) is the Radar24 system, which is now being sold direct for under $5,000. Add in the rest of the equipment you'll need with the Radar24 and you'll still be way under 40k.

The Radar is just one of many systems you can get where the sound quality will be equal to Pro Tools. Sound quality is really dependent on the converters you use, the mic preamps you are using, the recording space, etc. I have heard small studios use Cubase VST/32 and produce recordings equal to that produced by Pro Tools. They just bought good equipment to go with the DAW, and that equipment still cost less than Pro Tools.

Finally, if you want an integrated system capable of doing MIDI as well as audio tracking, forget Pro Tools. The MIDI support is lacking, even at this point. Many users use Cubase or Logic for their MIDI needs. I can go into more detail, but the possibilities are endless.

P.S. Other systems that have been recognized for their sound quality are Paris (lacking in MIDI, but new software coming out soon) and Nuendo. Don't know much about Soundscape at this point, but I have heard good things.

Also, I'd get concerned by the amount of time it has taken Digidesign to get off their asses and provide some GOOD MIDI support. That doesn't show good comsumer support in my mind. It seems that as long as they can milk you for bucks and make you think that they're the only thing out there, they're happy, and why shouldn't they be!

Sorry Fessiwig I have to disagree. I personally prefer the sound quality of a TDM system with AD8000 converters over a Radar any day. Regardless of this personal opinion, to give Radar the same functionality of PT TDM, you would need 3 Radar units to provide the same track count. You would then need to add a digital mixing desk with at least 64 channels. You would need to buy MIDI sequencing hardware/software. And of course you would need to buy hardware equivalents to plugins for your mixing.

Still think for $40K that a Radar based system can compete with the functionality/quality of a full PT TDM system?

>

MIDI support in PT is not lacking, it supports the full feature set of the MIDI standard. However if you spend a lot of time manipulating MIDI information then specialist MIDI sequencing software could make life easier. PT is audio software with MIDI features added. Logic, DP, etc., are MIDI sequencers with audio features added. Different products for different jobs. None of the MIDI sequencing software packages has mixing/editing facilities for audio as good as those within PT TDM.

>

Depends on what you are comparing it with. Compare it with the bottom end of the semi-pro audio market; like Digi 001 or Cubase, then yes, TDM seems very expensive. However, this is not the market in which TDM is competing. Now let's go to the other end of the scale, the marketplace where every studio uses well over $1millon of equipement. TDM provides a level of functionality/quality nearly comparable with these high end systems but for a tiny fraction of the price. In this marketplace, a fully spec'ed PT TDM/ProControl system is considered a budget option!

Greg

Well said Greg!

Refer to my reply to Wolfgang Post on the Soundscape forum.............

------------------
Joel Gette
Soundscape Digital
http://www.soundscape-digital.com

Comparing RADAR to Protools is like comparing apples to sushi. RADAR is a very fine digital multitrack recorder but I don't think it qualifies as a DAW. It lacks the intensive editing power of Protools and has no internal provisions for a mixing environment. Sure it doesn't cost much, but you need a ton of other gear around it to make it jump through all the hoops a PT system can (try time compression on the RADAR - ouch!). Paris! Plleeeaaase! Not on my watch.

I think you guys are missing one of the strongest points of the PT system and that is the enormous support Digidesign has garnered with the plug-in manufacturers. Plugs are what seperate the DAW environment from the hardware based studio. If you buy a good quality compressor plug-in, you can use it as many times in a session as your TDM hardware (or processor speed) can handle. A really nice hardware compressor will set you back at least $1200. Say you want to use 10 of those compressors in a tracking or mixing session. $12,000 worth of compressors starts to eat into the overall budget in a big way. By the time you buy 2 or 3 digital reverbs, a dozen or so Pultec EQ's and a couple of Harmonizers, you wont have enough money left to buy console to plug that RADAR into.

On the issue of PT's MIDI implementation, I agree - it's weak, but here's something to keep in mind. MIDI is by all technical standards very simplistic. The MIDI interface board in the back of your latest greatest KORG MegaTriton super workstation still runs at the same speed and bit rate as that Yamaha DX7 that came out in the early eighties. That's because the MIDI hardware implementation standard can't be changed without making every existing MIDI device obsolete. With that in mind, think about MIDI sequencers. There is very little new under the sun as far as what the MIDI part of those programs can do. Performer, Vision, Cubase, and Logic haven't made any really bold strides in the mechanics of their sequencers since 1994 with the exception of graphics and interfaces. Those sequencers really don't do much more than they did 10 years ago if you ignore their digital audio features. My solution - find an older Mac for sequencing.

I've been using Vision since the early eighties and even though Opcode is out of business, I have no reason to move to another sequencer. The MIDI features of any of the popular sequencing packages require minimal amounts of RAM and take up virtually no hard drive space. Most modern sequencers, when used in MIDI Only mode will run comfortably on an early Power PC 6XX computer. You can get into a Power Mac 7200 for peanuts (64M RAM, 2G HD, 15" monitor for around $400). On top of that, everyone is dumping their trusty serial MIDI interfaces that wont work with their new USB machines - they can be had for peanuts as well. Sync the sequencer to Protools with MTC or SMPTE and you have your favorite flavor of sequencer plus full throttle Protools. You also gain the benefit of having the sequencer on a seperate monitor from Protools. It's an elegant and cost effective solution.

------------------
Richards Outpost Audio
"Ain't Life Grand?"

Well, obviously someone wasn't reading my post in its entirety. First of all, I should say that I don't have anything against Protools. However, I know, based on my experience, that I can get as good a recording on a system with Cubase VST/32 (version 5.0) as I can with Protools. By spending SO MUCH LESS on the actual DAW, I can then purchase awesome converters and mic preamps, or perhaps a really good mixer. I would have more flexibility with the type of sounds I can get to the hard drive. I'm not sure what you mean when you tout the TDM plugins, Cubase and Nuendo, by my recent estimate, have even a larger number. And honestly, so what! I can buy awesome outboard gear with the extra money I'm saving by not buying Protools, and I think outboard gear, when applied well, still sounds better than most software plugins.

As an aside, an earlier response to my earlier message stated that I would need to buy 3 Radars? So what, that's only 15k at most! Then get some good mic preamps and a good mixer and you still beat Protools in cost. It depends on what you like, but I question anyone who says that, for example, the Foo Fighters album "Colour & The Shape" (recorded primarily using Protools) sounds better than XTC's "Wasp Star" (recorded primarily using Radar). In my opinion, its the mic preamps, converters, skill of the person doing the mix, and the recording space that affect the recording quality the most.

BTW, Paris has announced that its new software should be out in February. It will have full Midi support according to the specs. I have heard awesome recordings coming out of Paris. Is it better than Protools? Who's to say, but you CAN get "professional" recording quality out of it. Honestly its absolute bulls**t to say that Protools is the only DAW to allow for prosfessional sounding recordings.

Sorry Fessiwig, I can't let you get away with that.

>

What do you mean, "perhaps a really good mixer". If you want to compare a Radar based system with a TDM/ProControl system you have to include a mixer. To be comparable it would need to be a good quality digital desk that has 64 digital "tape" inputs, say 8 or more analog inputs in addition to aux returns, as well as 32-buses and the other features of TDM/ProControl. You tell me how much a mixer like this would cost. Add that to the $15K for your Radars, add your ADCs and other out board gear and you won't be able to get anywhere near the price of a TDM/ProControl system.

>

This statement is just blatently untrue. The AD8000 is one of the best ADCs on the market, I can't see why anyone would want to use anything else unless they wanted something cheaper and poorer quality. In which case there is nothing to stop anyone using a cheaper ADC. Mic preamps, plug any mic preamp you want into your ADC. So if one can use any preamp with just about any high end converter with TDM how on earth can you say that a Radar based system or Cubase will give you more flexibility with the types of sounds you can get to HD?

I can understand that in your situation you may not need such a high track count and all the processing power that a high track count requires. So for you, many of the features of a TDM system are uneccesary and therefore it seems expensive. But that is just from your viewpoint. Because of the type of work I do TDM/ProControl is extremely cost efficient. Furthermore, I keep a very close eye on the competition and to date there is no other product or combination of products on the market that fulfils my set of requirements at anywhere near the price of my TDM system.

Now you can argue all you want but you can't argue with the truth of my situation or of the many other people in a similar situation who have also made an informed decision to purchase a TDM system.

Greg

Greg, no offense, but please read my message before you quote me inaccurately. I did not say "perhaps a really good mixer," I said "a good mixer" when I was referring to Radar. When I said "perhaps a good mixer" I was referring to Cubase or Nuendo or other software with software based mixers.

I don't know why you are so focused on Radar. I was not bringing that up as the only option, only as an example of another system that has good sound quality. And it does, although it does require purchasing several outboard components.

If you read my message, you will notice that I talked about Nuendo and other systems as well. In the last message you hyped the fact that Protools offers lots of simultaneous tracks, which is an advantage over Radar if you plan on recording a large band and having each instrument on an individual track. Nuendo, which I mentioned, can support more simultaneous tracks than Protools according to specs. However, lets stay focused on the sound quality, as I truly don't think anyone who is converting a cottage, garage, barn, etc., will have the need for so many simultaneous tracks.

At this point, you still have failed to address several of my points, most importantly that most of these systems, especially the ones I mentioned, are capable of professional recordings. While I agree that Apogee converters are great, many full scale studios have different high-end converters which they use to get slightly different colorations in their sound. For this reason, there is nothing wrong with buying the converters outside the system. Also, as I said before, I'd rather spend the money I'm saving on awesome mic pres and outboard effects which will give me better recordings in general. As I said before, its the person recording, the recording space, the mic pres, and the converters that primarily determine whether a recording will be at professional level quality. I know some people may argue that the software colors the sound, but I believe that these other factors I just mentioned figure much more into the equation.

Fezziwig, you are just being silly now.

I don't know if you truely don't understand the marketplace you are in or if you simply don't want to understand.

>

I was just using your example of a Radar system. I could have used host based DAWs: Host based systems like Nuendo just don't have the DSP power to support TDM quality plugins over a reasonable number of tracks. Neither do they support sufficient I/Os for my and many other peoples needs. We could continue this argument for any equipment out there, the result would be the same. Either the equipment would be cheaper but wouldn't have the features I require or it would be more expensive.

>

Ah ... this statement explains where you are coming from. Obviously the majority of home studio users don't need "so many simultaneous tracks". However to say you "don't think anyone" has this need is incorrect. I do, and I know of many others like me that do. It is for these people and the lower end commercial studios, for whom TDM is designed. Budget options like Neundo, 001, etc., are the products that have been designed for use by the majority of home studio users who don't need the high track count and other features.

>

So would I ... and if I had $100K to spend on outboard gear that's exactly what I would do. Read the second paragraph of Borgbilly's post.

>

Yes, it is possible to create a professional recording on say a 001 or VST system. Provided you and your clients have plenty of time you can submix your way around many of the limitations. However in my situation and other commercial/professional situations time is a luxury we don't have. Try using say 001 in this situation and I'll show you the quickest way to loose all your clients.

I think it's time for me to end the argument here. I've already made my case and said more than enough

Greg

Sue,
All your questions answered now?
If you're still in the dark, let us know so we can confuse you some more. (Just kidding!)

Seriously, every prospective system buyer should spend a lot more time thinking about (and putting research into) what they need a system to do, and focus on finding a system that will cover those bases. It seems backwards to me to look at all the systems and decide what your needs are based on what they can do.

It's going into my cottage studio, for personal use but I want to produce the best sound I can. I want something that is pretty easy to opperate but I will hire someone as well in the end if needed.

IMO, this isn't enough to base a qualified recommendation on. This could be just about any system in the world. As Greg and Fezz's discussion suggests, style of production can make a huge difference in your needs. (I'm still not sure what they were disagreeing on. hehe.) And there are a ton of other important factors which can only be prioritized by sueform.

If you would, please elaborate on your situation, and we'll try to narrow this down a bit.

Exactly my point--it is going into her cottage for her own personal use. That means that MANY more options are available to her than Protools, if her main concern is sound quality and it is for her own personal use. I think Greg might have missed that, but that was what I was focused on.

As somebody mentioned before, I don't disagree with Greg. If you are going to open a professional studio to the public, get Protools at this time. Greg, I think you glossed over Nuendo too much in your last post. I think with the new version 1.5, it has alot to offer as a comparable product to Protools.

Sue,
I certainly hope that you're doing your homework and research other than this thread.
If nothing else, you can draw the conclusion from this thread that everyone has an opinion
,and you must gain the knowledge to be able to assess your own needs, which basically goes back to my previous post on this thread.
Nobody can tell you what to buy, but can
give you advice on your options.
In your first post on this thread, you asked about Soundscape. Since you said that
dropping $40,000 was not a problem, I guess it is fair to assume that you're not looking for entry-level systems such as 001. So, as far as SS goes, your consideration would be
their R.ed 32. Combined with their Mixpander
and their interfaces, the R.ed is quite a powerful system. If you would like more info on their systems, talk to Joel in the SS furum here on RO. Joel is extremely knowledgeable, and can answer any and all of your questions in easy layman's terms. You can also visit the SS website at http://www.soundscape-digital.com for technical specs, and product information on their add-ons and accessories.
Unfortunately, Nuendo remains unrepresented
on the RO. Nuendo DOES have a very good system, but since it is unrepresented here,
people knock it, and there are few rebuttals.
If it were me, I would wait for the Mac version to come out in the spring, and see how it works with a G4dual500 and OSX!
Hmmmm...be interesting to see if PT can run on the G4dual500 and OSX by this spring...
Of course, there are so many more possibilities, more than could ever be listed. I currently have digi001, and have no
concerns about changing anytime real soon. It
does what I need for the time being, and I have no regrets for having bought it. When I am ready for the big jump there will be a lot more available. I am in no rush, but competition and technology are...

WOW! everytime I come back here things look better. I love this forum!!!

Thank you all for the valuable information. I'm waiting for the New Year to make a final decision...sooo much to think about. Pro Tools or Soundscape seem to be the system.

Merry Christmas

Wow, I just read all of these posts and all I could think of is that if you want to be compatible with the rest of the professional world...It's Pro Tools. Sure a person can get professional results on another system but a person can also make pure crap on the best Pro Tools mix plus system whilst sitting behind a class A Neve with the London Symphony Orchestra waiting to play. It's a "TOOL". Have you budgeted for the installation yet?....

Bob

The biggest misconception in the audio industry is that Pro Tools is the "Standard", when it is not. Widely used yes, but that does not make it a standard, in the sense of the word. This is the result of some very creative marketing, on the part of Digidesign.

BTW: Soundscape is compatible with PT and vice versa through the OMF protocol (via Soundscapes OMF/EDL plug-in)

------------------
Joel Gette
Soundscape Digital
http://www.soundscape-digital.com

i am currently using a 001 to compose my own music on.having toyed witrh both host based and tdm systems i can say this.

GET THE FRIGGIN TDM

if youve got the money and you need a soulution with no gaps in performance get it.especially get it if youve got most of the external hardware set up and your just waiting to slide the daw in your setup.
if this is in your budget and you require power to play with lots of track with lots of plug ins and un noticable latency get tdm.

that said, tdm would brobably give you a 10% or more performance(not scientific )
boost.that gap may seem small, but youll notice the difference when you push your system.

you really have to decide if you need tdm power before you pay up.perhaps you dont need it, then to spend all that money would not be the best appropriation of resources.there are host based systems(not made by digidesign) that give you a full pallate of features and when used on a properly configured set up give stable performance.

also im guessing(again unscientifically)
that by this time next year ill be able to do a lot of the things a tdm system does with nuendo and a blazing dual processor mac(wich im not using and this is just speculation ).this may be more of an option as companies like tc works put out their own dsp cards and the performance/price point alters.

nothing will compare to soundscape or a real pro tools set up though, because even as cpus get more powerful there will be morer powerful soundcards.at this point the question becomes,can i get what i want for 10,000 or 40,000

i cant answer that question for you.

but be aware of this, in a year or two todays top end stuff will be attainable just using a cpu-then the question becomes are there new advanced capabilities wich warrant these massive systems.

pssst-get the tdm(but you may not need it)

peace,
robert

Joel,

Whether we choose to believe it or not, Pro Tools has become widely used, for whatever reason, and I have yet to hear a client ask if I know/have RADAR, or MOTU, or SADIE. "They" all ask for Pro Tools (except Sonic Solutions with regard to Mastering an album). It's become the "Kleenex" of the DAWs and the only time someone will ask for something else is if they are already in another format or system. Introducing them to a "superior" or different system is a case by case and a pro will get the best results. I don't know where you all may be working in the world but since TV and Film use so many Avid Systems, Pro Tools has dug in it's heels and become a standard for compatability to other studios and broadcast.

Bob

We do OMF/EDL just as good (if not better then Pro Tools)
So the compatibility issue is mute on that topic.
I thought I had stated it was widely used!
any way
Who do you work with? just curious,,,,

------------------
Joel Gette
Soundscape Digital
http://www.soundscape-digital.com

We do OMF/EDL just as good (if not better then Pro Tools)
So the compatibility issue is mute on that topic.
I thought I had stated it was widely used! any way
Who do you work with? just curious,,,,

------------------
Joel Gette
Soundscape Digital
http://www.soundscape-digital.com

Compatibilty in that realm was not what I was referring to, my mistake. Start out a project on DAW "whatever" and then go to a studio and see if they have it, if they don't, try to rent it, if you cannot, I would call that incompatible. It is a micro-definition and I see that it relates a choice in format rather than market numbers. What I do know is that out of the 7 major equipment rental places in Los Angeles that I called this morning, your system, along with many, many others, are not available. Pro Tools is. Most of the major studios in town have P.T. rigs or have situations that they will provide an "in-house" rig. That is compatibility with the rest of the world. I'm not saying that I think that's great, that's just the way it is.

As far as what I use, it's Pro Tools TDM as well as 001. I use Digital performer, Logic, and Digidesign software as the front end and I use both MOTU and Digi hardware, though not together in the same system. I use Sonic Solutions for mastering, I should say that the mastering engineer that I use, uses Sonic if we need to use a DAW during mastering. I use ACID 2.0 running through a WAMI rack on a pc and I am currently trying to get that to act like a multi-timberal sampler with 001 (posting on DUC). I use a wide variety of tools.

As far as who I work with, feel free to search me at allmusic.com and that will give you a partial list of my credits.

Bob, what do we enter to conduct a search?

Baughb,
That was a rather abstract definition of
'compatible'!...
********************************************
Compatibilty in that realm was not what I was referring to, my mistake. Start out a project on DAW "whatever" and then go to a studio and see if they have it, if they don't, try to rent it, if you cannot, I would call that incompatible.
********************************************
You are simply confusing 'compatibility'
with 'availability'. 'Compatibility', in the
'DAW world' means that you can record your session on " DAW "whatever"", take it to a studio, and they can then do further work on your session. PT studios can do this with
"DAW whatever" sessions if they use the OMF
protocol. Many current manufacturers now have
that compatibility ability, putting an end to
the 'I have to buy PT cuz it's the standard
of the industry'. I am a PT owner/user, but I'm against monopolistic tactics, and don't
care for the tactics of people who try to
deceive people into becoming a victim of the
monopolizer.
Back in the 70s, the musical electronics industry found it necessary to negotiate a
way to let their products communicate with each other, and after great debate, came up with MIDI. This was a monumental decision,
which benefitted the manufacturers and the
musicians.
The DAW industry is now at the point where
they must also conform to some sort of standardization. It is quite obvious that people are fed-up with compatibility issues.
OK, great, PT is in most studios. That doesn't mean that people should be forced to
buy an inexpensive product with seriously crippled software (001), or an overpriced
system in a price range beyond the common musician's means (TDM) in order to be able to record their music and then have a big
professional studio finish their work. PT
users who try to trick others into thinking
that they must have a PT or be left out in the cold really piss me off. Do they really
think that we're so stupid and ignorant that
we don't know that we have other options?
Let me tell you, I'm fed-up with Avid's marketing tactics. When I'm ready to move-up
from 001, I won't be moving-on to TDM. If
you read the thread regarding this subject on the DUC, you'll find that other 001 users
aren't going to move-on to TDM either. Now,
if Avid comes out with a new system, between
001 and TDM, and it gives you more bang for the buck than it's competitor's products, then I may consider that product. But,I would be very apprehensive about buying another Avid product. I would be much more comfortable buying from a company that has
good customer support, has better upgrade policies, and cares about people who bought their system years in the past.
So, there you have it. Now you all know where I stand. There are a LOT of people with
this same point of view. I'm not just some renegade with a lone point of view.
There are several companies out there trying to fill the '002' slot, but in my opinion, nobody is quite filling the bill, yet. Several are close, but not quite there.
Do you think that there is a product that fills that slot? If so, let me know...

It's too bad no one feels strongly about gear. :^) For an alternate to all these ravings, look at Nuendo. For a complete system, computer, interfaces, and surround capability, your looking at about $7500 US.
OK, it's not as mature a program as PT, but it is SO fast, so easy to use, and very powerful compared to EVERYTHING out there. NOT as powerful as PT 5.1 (I run both), but it really outshines any other DAW. Logic or Cubase or DP are the only way to go for midi intensive stuff, but soon it will be a battle between PT and Nuendo for the crown. PT is like SSL in the 90s; everyone who is anyone has it - it is the common high quality editing DAW. People aren't going to throw away APIs or Neves or Sphere consoles to buy an SSL, but they'll have one handy if the client requests. For Sue, if 40k is your total budget, look around, talk to studio owners, and don't get "my-first-ProTools" Digi001. You'll grow out of it, and it is a dead end steet in the upgrade dept. You'd be better starting with Logic Platinum, a great audio card, and an 02R or DMX-R100 console for your studio. Get great mic pres, comp/lims, and mics. ProTools (or anything else)only gives you what you put in it (hopefully). As you can see, brand loyalty is alive & well on the internet. Happy Holidays

Oh yeah, I forgot: The Euphonix R1 seems to be the king of the best sounding DAW-type recorder (very similar to Radar). It seems to be THE recorder for multitrack surround stems for film mixing and also is the most requested one used for DTS and 5.1 CD (and soon to be DVD-Audio). At this level, we are splitting hairs, but that's what they are for, no?
And Greg is right again, Sue, hire someone who KNOWS what to do, and how to do it, for your studio. Experience is the only thing you can't buy, but renting it is very inexpensive, compared to re-inventing the wheel.

Hi SonofSmaug,

they must also conform to some sort of standardization. >>

Standardisation, as in MIDI, is a very two edged sword. The benefits of compatiblity are enormous. However the flip side of the coin is that eventually the standard itself becomes a becomes a limiting factor. For instance, manufacturers could do so much more with current MIDI instruments than the MIDI standard allows.

On balance I don't think I would want a standard for DAWs.

Greg

Sonofsmawg- Obviously you have issues with Avid. So What! Don't use it! Yes, most of the world's best studios have the nicest/most expensive toys/tools. I've been fortunate enough to work in most of the best rooms in Los Angeles and a few in London and speak from my experience only and not as some mole for a corporate entity or blatant equipment manufacturer. I just know that when I have to use P.T. and incorporate it into an audio situation, it works and operates like a professional piece of gear and works with other gear. It plays nice. I can say that about MANY pieces of equipment but so what? I just stated, in reply to Joel's assessment that Pro Tools isn't the pro standard in DAWs that my experience, as of today, says differently. They're just tools and they all suck at something.

Bob

Sonofsmawg- One more thing. I don't think that I confused "compatibility" with "availability". ADATS are readily available... I charge more if the client wants to use them because they SUCK!!!!! They pathetically try to sync even unto themselves and I have a documented 90% "failure to lock" rate with them on multiple occasions (I do tend to try to make something work long after I should punt). Roland's V1680 whatevers are readily available and I think they SUCK!!!!!! I just get tired of trying to work on gear that makes me work the way the manufacturer decided I should work and not me. I am a big supporter of "A/B ing" things and even though it says 24 bit on it doesn't mean that it acurately reproduces what goes into it. Find your tools and use them. Don't use the ones you don't like but get a copy of the manual in case someone with a lot of money wants you to use it.

Bob

Bob,
Well, I guess we've run the PT subject into the ground. I guess it comes down to
either buy PT, because it's the "standard of
the industry", or look elsewhere. Kewl.
I definately agree with you about ADATs,
and the overpriced Roland toys.
Rock on...

Just another friendly opinion, My Alesis M20's rock. I have not had a sync problem with them ever. And they sound great!!

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