I owned the Taylor 314CE for years and passed it off to my daughter. I need a new Taylor or something comparable to be able to earn some extra income. I don't really want the electronics. I'd much rather have nothing inside the box.
That being said, I have been considering the 414CE for some time because I've read its a choice studio acoustic. I also read the Taylor GC8 is really nice too. The slotted peg system in intriguing.
I'm still undecided.
Or, what do you recommend for acoustic guitars?
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Comments
audiokid, post: 441809, member: 1 wrote: Thanks for thinking ab
audiokid, post: 441809, member: 1 wrote: Thanks for thinking about me and that's really cool, Kurt! No, I haven't bought one yet. I was looking at the 800 series now (rosewood top) . I'm also debating a completely unknown guitar, Morgan Guitars which are just beautiful sounding and looking too.
I'm very excited for him and thrilled you have a good use for your building.
i hope you won't do anything until i can get you guys hooked up. the guys name is John Taylor and he builds guitars out of exotic woods. like i said he showed me 2 of them and they are very beautiful guitars that play very well. i'm going to try to see if i can get him to come on RO and post some pics if you like.
thatjeffguy, post: 441825, member: 38103 wrote: I own a Martin D
thatjeffguy, post: 441825, member: 38103 wrote: I own a Martin D35 which has always recorded beautifully.
me too. i love my D35. i've had it for many years. i tend to lean toward Martins, Gibsons and Fenders. anything else to me is an also ran but some guys like Chris like those Taylors. Chis is not the first guy i've come across that likes them. these guitars John builds are exceptional in my opine.
it's gonna be cool having John here. he's already told me he will re set the truss rod on my D35.
I finally found the acoustic guitar for me. Today I picked up a
I finally found the acoustic guitar for me. Today I picked up a 2016 Taylor Grand Auditorium 414ce-R, spruce top, rosewood back/sides. I am a happy guy.
The tone in comparison to a 314ce (which I owned prior to this one) is a lot warmer and fuller. Rosewood is nice.
I've been playing all night until my fingers are sore. :love:
I also bought a Kyser quick change capo. I've always avoided capo's for some weird martyr-ish reason , but its long overdue to get over that.
I like how super easy it is to use, but I'm not sure it was the right choice now because I feel it there, even though its likely just something to get used to.
What do you guys use for capo's?
Kurt Foster, post: 441808, member: 7836 wrote: hey Chris, did y
Kurt Foster, post: 441808, member: 7836 wrote: hey Chris,
did you ever get a guitar? i'm asking because i just met a guy who worked (works) for Taylor and he's going to rent my shop to start a guitar building business. he's got babies and anything else you might want. basically the same guitar as a Taylor. he showed me two of them and they are beautiful. same guitar (quality) at 1/3rd the cost.
Did he rent your shop, Kurt?
thatjeffguy, post: 441825, member: 38103 wrote: Chris, one of my regular clients owned a Morgan for quite a while. It recorded VERY well! Very well balanced in tone.
I missed out on the Morgan. It was beautiful.
Do you guys use a humidifier of some kind in the case? Keeping i
Do you guys use a humidifier of some kind in the case? Keeping it at the recommended average of 47%?
I did with one of my first expensive guitars but because I was on the road for years, humidity always changing week to week I moved away from investing in overly delicate guitars.
This guitar is pretty nice and I'm not on the road (right now at least). What are your thoughts on humidity control?
Hi @audiokid, Chris good choice!. You may recall that is what I
Hi audiokid, Chris good choice!. You may recall that is what I have in a 2004 LTD version. I use a Dunlop capo on it. I do have a planetwaves humidity pack in my case. I also have some cedar ( small flat block) for wood worms.
And yes, I used a capo very sparingly for years. Now, I'm all over the first 5 frets with that sucker. Both 6 strings and the 12.
Makzimia, post: 448858, member: 48344 wrote: Chris good choice!.
Makzimia, post: 448858, member: 48344 wrote: Chris good choice!. You may recall that is what I have in a 2004 LTD version.
Thanks.
Makzimia, post: 448858, member: 48344 wrote: I use a Dunlop capo on it
They had Dunlops there. Same price as the Kyser.
Makzimia, post: 448858, member: 48344 wrote: I also have some cedar ( small flat block) for wood worms
Never heard of this. Are those common in some regions?
Makzimia, post: 448858, member: 48344 wrote: I do have a planetwaves humidity pack in my case
Is this what you would recommend now?
@audiokid Chris, I had wood worms in a few of my guitars at one
audiokid Chris, I had wood worms in a few of my guitars at one point. Lucky early stages, they were on the fretboards. Cedar is an old trick to get rid of them. They weren't boring type, it was in San Diego. As for the planetwaves humidity packs, great idea as they work in either too much or too little humidity. Have to make sure to replace the gel packs fairly regularly though. A burst one is a total pita
Right... I understand what they are now. http://www.planetwaves
Right... I understand what they are now.
http://www.planetwa…
The new Taylor 714ce My quest to find the best overall performi
The new Taylor 714ce
My quest to find the best overall performing and tracking guitar has lead me here.
Now for the acoustically sounding, all organic impression (no electronics) of this guitar.
Right off the get go... the woodwork and appearance of this guitar is stellar. The top is Lutz Spruce, the back and sides are Indian Rosewood.
It has mahogany neck, Koa bindings, Douglas fir Purfling and rosette, ebony fret-board and bridge.
- It has a beautiful mid-range that is even and sounds very smooth when strumming soft and doesn't break up when I strum dynamic. (It can get loud)
- The bass is full but not boomy which is particularity what I am looking for in a tracking acoustic (again> no electronic).
- The top end is very even and warm. Good for soloing indeed.
- The intonation is excellent and the action is smooth right to the 20th fret.
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My guess:
- The mid freq focus and a natural HPF on the bass will nobly cut through in mixes and likely sound amazing with bass rich instruments and vocals.
- I predict it being a well balanced fit for baritone and/or warmer vocals that don't need a heavy bottom end bass as well.
- I suspect the low mid focus and clean bass sound of this will take EQ especially well.
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Now I am wondering what the 814ce-r looks and sounds like. They didn't have one in the store to tempt me but ecstatically from pictures I prefer less flash which is especially what I love about the 714ce. When you see this up close, it looks amazing.
The binding, inlay work and overall feel to this acoustic is beautiful.
My research says the Sitka top has a bit more warm bloom to a Lutz top which I'm hoping (the attribute to Lutz top) is going to prove to be best of both worlds for me (performing and recording).
Some tech info: In 2016 the 714ce has had a some changes with bracing and glue that is blowing people away about the 814ce, so it could be some of why I like the clean (improved) bass on this to example, the 314 and 414ce.
Up until I heard this, the 414ce-r was my choice studio acoustic because of how nicely it cut through in a mix. I suspect the new 714ce is going to turn a lot of heads for recording studios.
Never the less, wow, what a guitar. I'm excited to start recording this and will share some of this here.
This Taylor 714ce is going home with me. :love:
Image taken from the store
Well I had to go down to L&M (our version or better of a Guitar
Well I had to go down to L&M (our version or better of a Guitar Center in Canada) to check these out. Wow - the pieces I saw were fantastic looking. The details on the 700 & 800 series were subtle but gorgeous. I particularly like the pick guards. It's gotta be seen in person. L&M have a 12 month zero% financing deal on for Taylors right now so I can see how compelling it is to purchase one of these right now. I just can't swing it myself - still living relatively month to month to commit to something like this but they looked like incredible guitars.
I say look because they had the nicer ones (the 7's and 8's) hung so high on the wall I would have needed a rope and carabiner to actual get one down to play -- so I opted instead to observe from the plebeian position underneath the wall and just enjoys the smell of the wood... or was it the bearded dude with the "deep woods" body wash playing the ukulele that I smelt?
Congrats on finding a beauty Chris. Look forward to hearing some stuff from you. A new guitar can inspire all kinds of creativity.
Aren't they beautiful. I wish you would (please please) go back
Aren't they beautiful. I wish you would (please please) go back there and do a comparison between the 814ce and 714ce. They only special order 814ce here so I can't compare one. And I just have to hear your opinion after that. It changed me lol!!
If the difference was substantial to you, I would ask them to send one here and possibly exchange this for the 814. I mean, I am in it so deep now, whats another $800 lol. I'm eating rice as it is.
This is a resource worth looking at. Finally more detail info on
This is a resource worth looking at. Finally more detail info on what to look for in a spruce top.
Interesting.
Looking at the 3 grades of spruce tops in the link below, my Lutz Spruce top is somewhere between AAAA and AA. Its hard to tell as the furthest to the outside, is more AA, closer to the center, is AAAA. However, it has those silky crosses all over it, which was an indication from Taylor of having been cut at the perfect angle.
Here is the top on my 714ce. I would look for an 814ce with a similar grain as well.
DogsoverLava, post: 449073, member: 48175 wrote: I'll check it o
DogsoverLava, post: 449073, member: 48175 wrote: I'll check it out Monday or Tuesday and report back... L&M is closed Sundays if you can believe it!
right on :)
(EDIT) I have a lot to ask :love:
- If they have a few 814ce rosewood/ spruce tops, please compare the consistencies between a few of them.
- If you could compare the 814ce to the 714ce as well. (note, I have a 714ce now)
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- I'm particularly interested in the mid and bass differences between the 814 and 714. The 814ce has a new bracing inside, half the amount of finish on the top which translate more tone that you may feel (good) vibrating into your body and hands.
- If you find one that looks and feels particularly better to the others, please take a snap shot of it and the SN and store location. I could request it to be sent up here.
- And finally, see if they have the 814ce DLX and 914ce. They both have an arm relax on the corner of the top (edge of the guitar is actually contoured). Please play those to compare. I may end up with a 914ce at the end of this journey lo!
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Thank you so much for doing this. I am excited to hear what you have to say!
This is going to be awesome. I've been recording with my trusty
This is going to be awesome. I've been recording with my trusty and hardy Yamaha FG421 a lot recently and although it plays very well and sounds good but it's not magic in any sense. I bought it in Singapore at a Tom Lee Music in 1993 and it's traveled around the world several times with me and has had to survive all kinds of climactic & cultural extremes (from the wet tropical jungles of Vietnam, the crowded train systems in India, and the high altitude and temperature swings of the Himalaya). The contrast between a playable guitar built to survive that kind of abuse and a real magic guitar built and engineered to play well and sound magic is night and day. I'm so looking forward to this because I haven't had a reason to pull this kind of guitar off a wall in a long time. I'm getting ready to head out in about 30 mins. I'm still on very light duty still after my recent hernia surgery and have had a really tough couple weeks with the sudden death of a family member so this is going to be super fun and good for being. I love missions -- and musical missions are some of the best because there's joy in the doing!
OK - just got back. I'll give Chris the details in a private mes
OK - just got back. I'll give Chris the details in a private message but based on my playing and evaluation I will be recommending he get one of the 814CE models I played to be sent up and tested against his 714CE. I was able to play a couple 814ce models here in Vancouver and they both beat the 714ce they had in stock to compare.
OK - so here's what I quickly told Chris: ====== Was able to pla
OK - so here's what I quickly told Chris:
======
Was able to play two 814ce to compare against the 714ce they had in stock - spent about an hour -maybe an hour 15 in store playing.
Executive summary: the 814ce was by far the better guitar in terms of everything - particularly the tone. It had more depth, and a clearer projection with a more balanced character and that soundboard was alive and allowed some sweet single note textures and timbers that sustained for ages. The 714ce by comparison sounded "boxy" and had a rounder more muffled sound across the spectrum but skewed towards a more bass and low mid sound at the expense of separation and clarity.
Everything from strumming to classical playing, to pick and fingers, to single note runs and leads sounded better in the 814ce and allowed a lot more shaping of notes and tone. The guitar was much more alive and allowed me a s a player to use the guitar more expressively. How I held it and how I played it gave me more variation - I was literally inspired to play this way because I could.
======
To elaborate more: In the early 90's I almost bought a Taylor Classical guitar - priced somewhere around 2500-2700. For an off the shelf guitar is was OK - but for the money (at the time) it was just way too much for too little. I bought instead a hand made instrument that was easily 3 or 4 times the guitar in orders of magnitude for sound and quality/features and never looked back. So for this test I went in with slight reservations of anyone paying $4000-5000 for an off the wall Taylor as my history with guitar purchases was that custom would easily beat it.... And to be fair - I was surprised.
The 714ce
At $4200 CND the Taylor 714ce is a fine instrument. It plays very well and is built and finished beautifully. Sound wise it has a deep and rich tone with some very good brassy mids. As a taste it's caramel and as a colour it's got a very rich copper bronze tone that projects like a good baritone voice. Sonically it played pretty evenly across the neck and the strings but it did reveal a tonal character that was slightly muted or perhaps just "warm" that skewed more in the mids & the mid-lows. I didn't fall in love with it but I did fall in heavy like. Asking myself the question - would I pay $4200 for it? Not this piece - not without the love. For $4200 I want love not like. Of course I only played one piece so this may not apply to the range. I don't always fall in love with the most obviously beautiful or expensive guitar - each one stands on its own that way and I can fall in love with flawed guitars even but that didn't happen here for me.
The 814ce
At $4900 CND the Taylor 814ce shares a similar look and feel to the 714 (including electronics) but sonically it blows the 714 away. The top on these is positively alive with reverberation and I can't remember the last time I played a guitar that was as expressive to individual touch and nuance as this. When I say the sound board is alive - well you can feel it. it's literally resonates and vibrates through your hand and body as you play. It has exceptional clarity and separation while maintaining complete balanced cohesion across the spectrum. Tonally it had more presence and sweeter highs - a broader sonic range that was "excited". It could be buttery, it could be caramel, it could whisper -- brass went you wanted it. It reminded me of the richness of a really good viola or violin. Hands down it had a better sonic character and offered more dynamics and expressiveness across all styles of playing (from the strumming, to pick and fingers, to fingers, to leads). Because it was so alive I could as a player shape the notes and control the sound way more that I could with the 714. I played a few things that literally made me stop and just listen the the sound - I caught a few others do the same as I coaxed some gentle melodic passages out of the guitar. I can say I loved this guitar -- I played two different ones -- I loved them both but loved one more than the other (I gave Chris that serial no.) It had tighter grain lines in the top which may have accounted for it's sonic superiority. Both 814ce models I played were very very close to each other in all things -- I just liked one better. Did I fall in love to the tune of $4900? Yes I did. I'd have no trouble saying either of the 814ce's that I played were worth taking home at that price but there was one that just spoke to me.
Playability: Similar for both but the 814ce would be better for me (and I imagine others in a studio environment). The 814ce has cream coloured binding in the neck and black dot fret markers set in the binding which makes it easier to see and play on stage and in the studio. The 714 had a dark neck (no binding). The necks on both models are fantastic to play on and surprisingly wider than I expected (which was perfect for me). It made me a better player immediately and did not fatigue or cramp my hands. I found the 814ce slightly less heavy than the 714 - perhaps a thinner top with less moisture in the wood or a less dense finish. It does draw my attention the the question of durability and abuse. I would say I felt the need to handle it with more care that the 714 (though I handled both like new born babies).
Photos:
These photos all come from the one 814ce that I really liked. I love the subtle inlays, the rosewood pick guard, the tight grain pattern on the spruce. You can see as you look down on the neck that the position markers are very clear and the neck itself is gorgeous in feel and finish. It plays fast - but easy. My hands felt good. I also loved the unique little grain pattern on the fret board of this guitar. You can see it in one of the photos - it gave it some character. I wish I had gotten more photos but it was hard to get them - I had to always be holding one of the guitars (they had to pull one out of stock for me so there were no empty hangers for them). You'll note the tight grain on the top of the spruce and then a slight "sugary" cross grain -- not sure what that's called or what it means but it gives the top a little more dimension to it.
End thoughts
Although guitars are very individual I feel that fact I got to compare two 814's to a single 714 was good because they both exhibited the same characteristics that defined them as 814ce's s while still being distinct from each other (I had a preference for one). All three were fantastic guitars -- but the two 814's were just superlative and I think value for money -- they were right on the mark. You'd struggle to get a custom instrument at that price and be assured of the quality. That just up from the 714 was small in price but huge in attributes.
DogsoverLava, post: 449117, member: 48175 wrote: You'll note the
DogsoverLava, post: 449117, member: 48175 wrote: You'll note the tight grain on the top of the spruce and then a slight "sugary" cross grain -- not sure what that's called or what it means but it gives the top a little more dimension to it.
This is an indication that the quality is AAAA excellent and the cut angle is spot on.
DogsoverLava, post: 449117, member: 48175 wrote: It does draw my attention the the question of durability and abuse.
This is one concern for me as well. The new 814ce top is apparently half the thickness of their other series. I'm hoping the new bracing and glues used was to add strength that lasts a lifetime.I suspect that thin top will also dry out faster.
DogsoverLava, post: 449117, member: 48175 wrote: Although guitars are very individual I feel that fact I got to compare two 814's to a single 714 was good because they both exhibited the same characteristics that defined them as 814ce's s while still being distinct from each other (I had a preference for one). All three were fantastic guitars -- but the two 814's were just superlative and I think value for money -- they were right on the mark. You'd struggle to get a custom instrument at that price and be assured of the quality. That just up from the 714 was small in price but huge in attributes.
What a fantastic review, thank you so much for doing this for me! I ordered that 814ce and it should be here in a few days. I'll be sure to let you know what I think as well, but it will be hard to top your great review of these guitars.
Sweet - I look forward to hearing your impressions as well. Ther
Sweet - I look forward to hearing your impressions as well. There's always a chance that your 714 is a magic guitar unto itself but the one you have on the way positively dances. One thing the girl mentioned at L&M was that she thinks the 814 top is baked (as in pre-dried or aged). I didn't see specific evidence of that but if true then your question about moisture loss might be a bit moot. Either way they were all really really good instruments that anyone would be proud to own and make music on. Hope it all works out.
DogsoverLava, post: 449120, member: 48175 wrote: One thing the g
DogsoverLava, post: 449120, member: 48175 wrote: One thing the girl mentioned at L&M was that she thinks the 814 top is baked (as in pre-dried or aged).
torrified
I believe they only bake the 600 series.
A special roasting technique accelerates the aging process, yielding the rich and responsive tonal character of an older guitar. The technique gives the tops a slightly darker complexion that resembles cedar.
DogsoverLava, post: 449117, member: 48175 wrote: The 714ce by comparison sounded "boxy" and had a rounder more muffled sound across the spectrum but skewed towards a more bass and low mid sound at the expense of separation and clarity.
Yes, that is good example of it. Mine does sound really nice though but it is a bit too forward mid for my tastes. I think it would make a great tracking guitar but I think the 814ce will be far better. For $700 more, it sounds well worth it.
DogsoverLava, post: 449117, member: 48175 wrote: I was literally inspired to play this way because I could.
right on.
DogsoverLava, post: 449117, member: 48175 wrote: Hands down it had a better sonic character and offered more dynamics and expressiveness across all styles of playing (from the strumming, to pick and fingers, to fingers, to leads).
This is exactly what I was hoping you would say.
Humidity Since investing in a new acoustic I've read a lot abou
Humidity
Since investing in a new acoustic I've read a lot about humidifying them.
The short and sweet of this is... Wow! having my Taylor sitting around 47% makes the neck action electric right up to the 20th fret. Its astonishing how perfect my acoustic action became once I got the truss and humidity adjusted to my studio environment and style of playing.
When an acoustic is dry, the top arch of the guitar sinks resulting in the saddle to sink as well. If you have fret buzz on a new guitar, especially shortly after you bought it, chances are its simply drying out.
As the guitar humidifies, the top arch rises back to where it was made, thus the saddle rises and you should have no more fret buss. Its as simple as that.
Exactly to opposite... too much humidity, your action rises.
(NOTE, there are other indication to check the neck was correctly built but this post is about humidity)
Truss Rod Adjustment
Adjusting my truss to my playing was simple as well. Once the humidity was right, I adjusted a slight forward relief (almost straight but just a touch of a curve) which allows me to really dig into leads and strumming without fret buzz as well.
If the neck relief is too forward you will start to get fret buzz around the 12 fret which is usually where the next and body join. Its as simple as that.
Once my guitar was the perfect humidity and my truss was adjusted perfect to my style, the guitar became an absolute precision built work of art. Knowing this not only makes me happy but it also will record with no string buzz.
Here's a good explanation of truss rod adjustment and buzz
http://www.frets.co…
Buzz in low frets only:If there is terrible buzzing only in the lower portions of the neck, from the nut to the fifth or seventh frets, then I can presume there isn't enough relief, or that there's a "backbow" to the neck and fingerboard. The cure is to loosen the rod to allow more relief.
Buzz in high frets only:
If there is buzzing only from the seventh to the body, then I can assume there's too much relief. Now, the cure is to raise the action at the bridge, and tighten the truss rod. That way, the action will remain the same at about the twelfth fret, and the string won't have to be displaced downward so far to meet the tenth or eleventh.
I actually made my first truss rod adjustment on my trusty old Y
I actually made my first truss rod adjustment on my trusty old Yamaha FG421 the other day after dropping down several string gauges. I also have an FG400A (which was my wife's) that I've strung with Nashville tuned strings and I adjusted that as well. I was amazed at hope much better it played. Both were very subtle adjustments that cleaned up the buzz. I was worried that was going to have to consider re-fretting and getting my bridge remade (on a cheaper guitar you get into the whole cost/value equation) but the truss rod adjustment solved all my buzzing issues and made the neck "feel" better. I was always a little leery about neck adjustments.
Humidity issues scare me - especially drying out - I just don't have a good handle on that (and I live on the coast so most of my guitars are generally in a fairly consistent environment. My first question is how do you measure humidity accurately?
DogsoverLava, post: 449134, member: 48175 wrote: My first questi
DogsoverLava, post: 449134, member: 48175 wrote: My first question is how do you measure humidity accurately?
Same, I live on a big lake so the humidity is pretty consistent but it still isn't idea.
I bought the Oasis Guitar Humidifier. Its excellent.
How do you know if your guitar is humidified correct?
Assuming the guitar was made well and the frets are okay.... . When I am playing in a store (hehe) I trust you!
quickly just looking things over daily, I place the acoustic body on the top of my foot then hold the peg head while looking down the fret-board to the saddle. The fret-board should look pretty straight with the last fret> even to the base of the saddle.
The best way is to lay the guitar down and place a straight edge on the fret-board across the sound hole to the saddle. If its made properly and at its best humidity, it should be lined up.
To help make better scene... Imagine the fret-board continuing all the way down the body until it reached the saddle. The saddle and the end of your fret-board is basically in line, with a sound hole cut out.
If it is low, then the guitar is dry. If it is high, then it is too wet.
I'm also going to get a portable hygrometer like this one. htt
I'm also going to get a portable hygrometer like this one.
https://www.amazon…
Another element of acoustic guitar magic is that the soundboards
Another element of acoustic guitar magic is that the soundboards will open up when played... my assumption was that the wood settled into or revealed it's resonate frequency as it sort of tuned itself through playing (I view the soundboard as a dynamic and organic part of the guitar). I've no data on this beyond anecdotal (my own concert classical would come more alive over time) and that the info was passed down to me by my classical professors and colleagues back in the day.
I've wondered this as well. Like the guitar box becomes sonicall
I've wondered this as well. Like the guitar box becomes sonically perforated in a way that the wood is almost acoustically treated. Thus, wood grain opening up and allowing unwanted dominant freq to be absorbed, yielding a more harmonically, balanced tone (instrument) over time.
I think this is a large percentage of why the 814ce resonates an
I think this is a large percentage of why the 814ce resonates and sustains so beautifully. The finish coat is half the thinness (3. mil) of their past finish coats. Likely why we can feel a lot more resonating passing out of the guitar and into our body as well. Well tuned design indeed.
Imagine how this guitar will improve over time as well.
Have any of you stood in front of a wall to hear how your acoust
Have any of you stood in front of a wall to hear how your acoustic sounds to others? Its a great way to study how your guitar sounds from a different point of view, including to inspire you with lower freq. I do this all the time when practicing.
How does your guitar sound when you do this? Surprised?
How do others find the sweet spot in your studio or a room? Do you walk around the room listening or do you simply find the spots for instruments after trial and error or do you just plant yourself wherever ?
Kurt Foster, post: 441808, member: 7836 wrote: @audiokid hey Chr
Thanks for thinking about me and that's really cool, Kurt! No, I haven't bought one yet. I was looking at the 800 series now (rosewood top) . I'm also debating a completely unknown guitar, Morgan Guitars which are just beautiful sounding and looking too.
I'm very excited for him and thrilled you have a good use for your building.