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Avid: Things are getting ugly

I don't know what to say. You'll have to read it for yourself:

http://www.pro-tool…"]Multiple Investigations of Avid Technology, Inc. Announced - Pro Tools Tips, Tricks & More... - Pro Tools Expert Blog[/]="http://www.pro-tool…"]Multiple Investigations of Avid Technology, Inc. Announced - Pro Tools Tips, Tricks & More... - Pro Tools Expert Blog[/]

Comments

anonymous Wed, 02/27/2013 - 04:29

On Monday Avid “indefinitely postponed” it’s quarterly earnings announcement indefinitely and cited the need for “additional time for the Company to evaluate its current and historical accounting treatment related to bug fixes, upgrades and enhancements to certain products which the Company has provided to certain customers.”

Translation: they need time to get with their lawyers, and time to come up with a spin...

hueseph Wed, 02/27/2013 - 08:06

It's scary. If Avid go down, what's going to happen with all those studios that depend on Avid hardware and software. To give them the benefit of the doubt, the have had worse lows. Not that that is consoling in any way. I'm sure their stock owners are furious at their losses. They had a high of nearly $22 per share just over a year ago. Anyone who bought at that time has lost nearly 70% of their investment. I sincerely hope they get it together.

I love to hate Avid as much as the next guy but this could be serious bad news. I think it might be wise for them to sell the company now. Maybe to a company with competent management and competent software engineers. IMHO of course. I don't know if their talk is actually voodoo but at times it just seems like talk.

audiokid Wed, 02/27/2013 - 08:45

ROTF is all I have to say. Hueseph my man, I love your quarterly updates!

I haven't read this yet but will, well maybe. I've seen the light long ago.

The demise is long over due. Sorry long time supporters that are sucked into it all, the product is very dated, period. UAD finished them off, its just not public yet, or is it? Avid is all about selling plug-ins that you think you need to run a system that is dependent of their scheduled shareholder upgrades based around dated technology.
When they go down, I suspect there will be third party upgrading like crazy. Which will never get you further ahead either. HD is dependent on a computer that will die just like the G5 and previous. When they stop, the version you have stopped. Anyone that bought into Avid has all their eggs in one big basket. The bigger they are the harder they all fall.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it’s time to pause and reflect.” – Mark Twain

hueseph Wed, 02/27/2013 - 09:07

Here's the official news from Yahoo:

Finkelstein Thompson LLP Announces Investigation Of Avid Technology, Inc. - Yahoo! Finance

finance.yahoo.com/news/newman-ferrara-llp-announces-investigation-210100625.html

Avid Technology, Inc. Stock Chart | AVID Interactive Chart - Yahoo! Canada Finance

RemyRAD Wed, 02/27/2013 - 20:34

I certainly won't shed a tear for those miserable bastards that will not supply schematics for their professional products. From the moment I found that out they were bogus in my book. Screw that. And every professional piece of audio equipment has always been included with this schematics for the maintenance guys to maintain or just to be able to modify. And the company that does not do that for their professional marketplace ain't what I would call professional. Proprietary microphone preamps my ass. Yeah there were tons of recordings not recorded with them. And rightly so because they suck. Never mind those previous years of nonsense where you are forced to purchase their hardware in order to run software that won't run any faster than real time speeds. Screw that.

Seems pretty obvious to me a lot of American companies are going this way? Just so it can be outsourced overseas and the company will be picked up by somebody like Yamaha, Korg, Roland, Beringer yeah, Beringer. They got Midas. They'll get at least part of Avid that we all use. They'll probably retreat to their original video centric market? Or maybe they will just go the way of New England Digital? After all they've had a good 30 year run of audio BS. And when you can't make your greed profits anymore, it's time to take a dump.

They've been dumping on us for years. Good riddance.
Mx. Remy Ann David

BobRogers Thu, 02/28/2013 - 02:24

Looks like I switched to Studio One just in time. But since I'm not an investor, this isn't that big a deal - yet. (Unless I build that time machine and go back and short the stock.) If I'm reading things right, they are having to back off their valuations for previous quarters. I don't know about the specifics, but I gather there is a lot of room for creative accounting when your primary "assets" are lines of code. I guess I'm not surprised that more creativity was being used in the accounting department than the coding department.

Thomas W. Bethel Thu, 02/28/2013 - 03:07

My problems began with Digidesign which AVID purchased and then did away with. I purchased Sound Designer II for about $3500 back when I started into mastering. Six weeks later Digidesign said they were no longer going to support Sound Designer II and that it was an "orphan" product. I called them and asked if there was an upgrade route to Pro Tools and was told no. I asked if I could return my Sound Designer II software and hardware for credit against ProTools and was told "no way". The person I was speaking to, sensing I was upset, transferred me to the "national sales manager" who was, to say the least, very full of himself. He asked what the problem was and I told him. He said "son there are studios in California that make $3500 a week off Pro tools and I don't see what the problem is" I told him that, at the time, I was lucky to be making $3500 every two months. He said " well I guess you better get working". I lost all my respect for Digidesign and I have never had another AVID or Digidesign product in my studio. What a bunch of BS.

audiokid Thu, 02/28/2013 - 08:36

Yup,

I think we posted a memo on this company around 2005.
Apple is the next overrated, over priced, pro audio anchor taking a dive. Great for mobile though . I like my iphone.

Don't be sucked in on the last ditch effort. I'm guessing they will try one or two more rounds to dump stock before some opportunist ( soon to be announced I'm sure) buys whats left. And there will be updates on the dated hardware maybe.

I'm sorry for all you Pro Tools followers but that's how it goes. I said this last year, the cream is rising and it isn't Avid based studios. Cei La Vie to the last of that generation ranting about their Avid system based studios and long list of plug-ins that gave us that wonderful sound of the last 2 decades.

Good riddance. Long live better sounding audio and companies that actually care about music.

anonymous Thu, 02/28/2013 - 08:40

Thomas W. Bethel, post: 401377 wrote: My problems began with Digidesign which AVID purchased and then did away with. I purchased Sound Designer II for about $3500 back when I started into mastering. Six weeks later Digidesign said they were no longer going to support Sound Designer II and that it was an "orphan" product. I called them and asked if there was an upgrade route to Pro Tools and was told no. I asked if I could return my Sound Designer II software and hardware for credit against ProTools and was told "no way". The person I was speaking to, sensing I was upset, transferred me to the "national sales manager" who was, to say the least, very full of himself. He asked what the problem was and I told him. He said "son there are studios in California that make $3500 a week off Pro tools and I don't see what the problem is" I told him that, at the time, I was lucky to be making $3500 every two months. He said " well I guess you better get working". I lost all my respect for Digidesign and I have never had another AVID or Digidesign product in my studio. What a bunch of BS.

Unfortunately, a very common tale I've heard from other users as well.

Kinda makes you wish you'd been face to face with the jag-off though, huh? On second thought maybe not, cuz you might be posting this from jail if you were in the same room with him.

I know for sure I would be. :mad:

Kurt Foster Thu, 02/28/2013 - 10:55

Getting ugly? Things were always ugly

i'm all for keeping the price of admission to this business high in order to weed out the faint of heart. but once you pony up that should be it. recording on computers drives me up the wall partially because of all the upgrades we are basically coerced into tolerating and paying for.

for years DD was in a market position where they could tell clients like it or lump it. they had an exclusive club by nature of their price structures and their monopoly in the industry. well that has all changed now and they are feeling the wrath and frustration of people who didn't have the price of admission .... chickens coming to roost so to speak. it was really bad back in the late 90's and early 2000's when Apple was in on the scam ... the two companies campus’s were very close to each other and you could easily find engineers and designers from one company at the others campus on a regular basis ... they had a scheme where the pro industry had one or the other in there bank account every 8 months ... thank the Lor'ad that's all in the past. screw them both i say!

hueseph Thu, 02/28/2013 - 16:29

Avid have been in denial for a while. They should know better. People have been calling them out on many topics even on the DUC. The outrageous price for CPTK 2 which essentially only unlocks features that otherwise are available in so many other DAWs. The instability issues. The price for support.

I agree that high end audio is an investment but that investment is and should be mostly in the hardware department. What software is going to be sought after in 3 years? NONE. Only hardware maintains any value and even then there are only a very few companies that produce hardware that you will be using long into the future. The recycle depot will be filled with Beerslinger boards long before you see a Distressor, Chandler, Ibis in there.

anonymous Fri, 03/01/2013 - 03:55

hueseph, post: 401461 wrote: Avid have been in denial for a while. They should know better. People have been calling them out on many topics even on the DUC. The outrageous price for CPTK 2 which essentially only unlocks features that otherwise are available in so many other DAWs. The instability issues. The price for support.

If I buy it from the company or an authorized retailer, then I should be entitled to support without having to pay for it. I've already paid for it. Don't treat me like I don't deserve the support once I've purchased your product legitimately.

And what currently drives me crazy is this "must have wi-fi to authorize continued use of a plug" architecture.

I recently experienced this while working with a client at his home "studio"; he was using PT and wanted to use the Waves L1 on a few songs on the 2-bus. I mentioned to him that we would probably get better mixes in his living room, because of its size and shape, than we would in his basement.

We moved the rig into his living room, but found that we couldn't access the L1 plug because his internet connectivity was hardwired in his basement. So, without the wi-fi, we couldn't use the L1 plug because it wouldn't unlock/authorize without an internet connection.

That whole BS concept had me steamin', man. G-dammit!... if I pay for your software and install it on my Mac or PC, I should be able to use that F****R anywhere I want.

Just venting.

As you were.

fwiw
-d.

niclaus Fri, 03/01/2013 - 07:43

DonnyThompson, post: 401491 wrote:
We moved the rig into his living room, but found that we couldn't access the L1 plug because his internet connectivity was hardwired in his basement. So, without the wi-fi, we couldn't use the L1 plug because it wouldn't unlock/authorize without an internet connection.

That whole BS concept had me steamin', man. G-dammit!... if I pay for your software and install it on my Mac or PC, I should be able to use that F****
fwiw
-d.

i don't want to be nice to them or anything, but there was probably something wrong in his setup! I use those kind of plug-ins on computers that don't have access to internet and i never had a problem! Plus, that problem has more to do with waves than avid, hasn't it?

as far as i go, PT is a great software, and i'm not talking about avid policies! Lots of you hate it, i CAN understand why, and i even agree with most of the arguments! But, when working on movie post-production, it's much more easy and flexible than any software i worked with! I wouldn't be so pleased to see it die!
but again, i'm talking of the software, not Avid policies!!

i know i Will be knocked on my ass for saying that but i'm sure i'm not the only one who thinks that this is a great software!

hit me!

N.

audiokid Fri, 03/01/2013 - 08:28

This will attracted some tomatoes, sorry if my opinion eats at you. I'm not here to be FB "liked" or sell Avid banners.

I've used quite a few DAW's, I have 5 systems here ( Sequoia, Sonar, Ableton, Reaper, Pro Tools). I try and like Pro Tools for the "software" as much as others do today. I have my reasons like we all do and that should be why you choose what you do.
I keep my Avid rig in the closet only to say I have it. Workflow is something you get bias too, but, PT is on the bottom of the list for a few reasons. If it actually was that good, I'd be using it.

Pro Tools was my first big DAW system which I used professionally for 7 years. I thought it was the greatest until I was given other opportunities to try with no strings attached. I think we see things differently when we don't have a financial ball and chain effecting our vision.
Today, the new generation doesn't see it the way the last Pro Tools generation did so this is a big problem for Avid, and why the demise. Its dated as are the studios who use it IMO. That doesn't mean it can't work for you until Apple stops making parts for your rig.

When I see Pro Tools and the long lists of plug-ins proudly listed on a studio promo page, I think average sound quality right away. I do not think, wow in the least. Its far from impressive to me. DAW's are great editing tools and thats the first clue.
In hind sight I wasted close to $50 grand on it, it was a sonic mistake but a necessary evolution I was following back then, where now I'm leading or at least, thinking for myself.

I predict there are going to be more studios close just for the fact that re buying and learning how to actually build something that works all over again just won't be logical or feasible. And, the new generation doesn't see Pro Tools as the big craze anymore either so, those that have invested heavily into Avid, have a financial hurdle indeed.
Even if this round doesn't sink Avid, the next one coming will.

Good riddance. The "Pro Audio" world will be better once the clears and the cream rises.

hueseph Fri, 03/01/2013 - 09:44

And the response: Prosound Network: Avid Responds To Delay Concerns

Which really reveals nothing. A statement for the sake of statements.

Avid wrote: In situations like this where companies have reported a delay in reporting earnings results,
it is not unusual to see activity like this from certain law firms.

sdelsolray Sat, 03/02/2013 - 15:46

Well, I've been using ProTools for about 12 years. I originally decided to use the required hardware as a mere dongle and populate may signal chain with quality outboard preamps, converters and eq. My original Digi001 and PTLE 5.x was about $800. Software upgrades through many major revisions cost an additional $450 through today and I paid another $800 for a Digi003 rack, being allowed to trade in the older Digi001 hardware for some credit. Total spent about $2,000, or about $167/year, or about 45 cents a day. I spent more on one pair of microphones, or another pair of microphones, or one preamp, or another preamp, etc.

Add to this reliable compatibility with the two Mac computers I used over the years (I would wait to update), easy access to information through website services (forum, knowledge base, downloads service), a plethora of third party plugins available and regularly updated, and a set of features that fully satisfy my needs.

audiokid Sat, 03/02/2013 - 15:50

No disrespect intended but you are in the home/"project" market system. Its the teaser system ( a small dose of slightly crack), which is basically the sound of the 888/ 24 ( slightly better I'd expect) and mini requirements compared. But that's just a guess as I don't own your system so I could be completely off the mark in sound quality.

You are right, thats a great deal and all you needed, so its done you well indeed! You are one of the lucky ones. Or smart ones that didn't spend a ton of money on dated "software" that needs dated hardware to all work, based around a dated computer OS that is out of production as well.
The big ripoff IMO, starts at the pro level, HD and all the plug-ins thats sound like plug-ins that are designed to keep you coming back for more. But who cares if you are all happy and it works. That is the beauty of Pro Tools, its works.

Looking on the outside in ( from a good better best perspective), some see it different than the users hooked into the product. The sad fact is, you all put your eggs in one basket. A product that has you all by the balls teetering on mass restructure or simpler yet, just shutting to door.. How can they compete anymore at their price point when you can get a StudioLive 24.4.2 that sounds close enough to pro tools for $3500. The writing is on the wall.

sdelsolray Sun, 03/03/2013 - 10:35

audiokid, post: 401604 wrote: No disrespect intended but you are in the home/"project" market system. Its the teaser system ( a small dose of slightly crack), which is basically the sound of the 888/ 24 ( slightly better I'd expect) and mini requirements compared. But that's just a guess as I don't own your system so I could be completely off the mark in sound quality.

You are right, thats a great deal and all you needed, so its done you well indeed! You are one of the lucky ones. Or smart ones that didn't spend a ton of money on dated "software" that needs dated hardware to all work, based around a dated computer OS that is out of production as well.
The big ripoff IMO, starts at the pro level, HD and all the plug-ins thats sound like plug-ins that are designed to keep you coming back for more. But who cares if you are all happy and it works. That is the beauty of Pro Tools, its works.

Looking on the outside in ( from a good better best perspective), some see it different than the users hooked into the product. The sad fact is, you all put your eggs in one basket. A product that has you all by the balls teetering on mass restructure or simpler yet, just shutting to door.. How can they compete anymore at their price point when you can get a StudioLive 24.4.2 that sounds close enough to pro tools for $3500. The writing is on the wall.

As I mentioned in my post, I originally designed my system to use the Digi hardware (001 and later 003) to act as a mere dongle and populated the system with quality outboard gear, including Pendulum Audio MDP-1a and dbx 786 preamps, Lavry and Lucid converters, Millennia Media NSEQ-2 eq, Microtech Gefell and Schoeps microphones and Quested monitors. It is hardly a home/"project" market system. Those Digi dongles have performed flawlessly and the ProTools software has been first rate (although I have added some third party plugins, e.g., Altiverb, Waves, Massey, McDSP).

I fail to see how I "you all put [my] eggs in one basket". Certainly, my use of the Digi 003 as the dongle will eventually end, but that is true of all computer interfaces. The computer/interface/software portion of my current system (2011 iMac, Mac OS 10.7.5, Digi 003, PT 10.3.3) runs very well indeed, and will continue to do so for many many years, even without any further upgrades or enhancements. Similarly, the outboard gear I purchased, with proper maintenance, will still be working 20 or 30 years from now.

In thinking back to 12 years ago, I suppose I could have chosen a different interface/software path, but I don't think I would be in a better situation now.

As to studios which have much greater requirements, it is indeed sad to see what is happening. Avid is just one player in a dying industry.

audiokid Sun, 03/03/2013 - 10:39

My apologies if taken wrong, I just looked at the 001 or 003 as being home/project, which it is on its own. Which is in the eyes of the beholder as well. You are clearly going beyond. Nice to see or hear your success!
I mentioned the HD system ( or the HDX) and all the software, its more of a concern. Well a pretty big one and from what we can tell is very bad investment today. Which is really who we are concerned for and this thread is directed towards.

However,

I have an older Pro Tools system here and when Apple stopped making upgrades, and the drives, interface, peripherals became an issue ( outdated), Pro Tools, regardless of it still working is rendered useless because parts are not available or easily had, to say the least. So the songs, the software, the hardware, its all locked into that system that sits in the closet collecting dust.

You all are in the same boat. It just hasn't sunk yet.

sdelsolray Sun, 03/03/2013 - 10:52

audiokid, post: 401645 wrote: My apologies if taken wrong, I just looked at the 001 or 003 as being home/project, which it is on its own. You are clearly going beyond. Nice to see or hear your sucess!
I mentioned the HD system, its more of a concern. Well a pretty big one.

I only record solo fingerstyle acoustic and classical guitar, so I only need 4 tracks at most (sometimes more when I'm comparing mic pairs or preamps for enjoyment).

It is sad to see such turmoil in the professional recording industry.

RemyRAD Sun, 03/03/2013 - 22:02

Chris you know that not all musicians want to be engineers. So studios will still continue to exist whether it's in a commercial building or someone's basement. And where folks might be using analog stuff and the client does not care. Why should they care? They come to you because they know what you can produce. And when people start to tell me how to engineer, I generally send them onto another studio. I don't tell them how to play their instruments well not generally. If they want suggestions or input from me, I'll provide it. If I think something is not going well or sounding good, I might make a suggestion? But I won't if I don't like their music or their lack of professionalism. Because you can't fix stupid. And you can't educate the world. I'm not out to educate the world. You shouldn't be either.

I don't care when people ask me to engineer in their own homes studios even if all of their equipment is junk. I don't want to denigrate my clients or friends because they bought cheap stuff. That's nuts. Though it seems to me you might not be able to make a good recording on anything less than the best equipment? And that's fine. No problem there. It's what works for you. There is no right or wrong good or bad in the 21st century. It's just what is. So you're driving around in that shiny new car and I'm driving around in that shiny restored 1974 car.

I have this friend that used to have an API console and did everything analog. Today he is strictly ITB with an Avid C-24 that he doesn't even use. He prefers a mouse. The C-24 was just for those other clients that were Pro tool fanatics and he has since closed his studio. And he despises the sound of those microphone preamps so, he has still kept a couple of his 3124 API's two track with. But he's recording nothing these days at home. So I'm not even sure why he has that C-24 anymore? Probably because it still looks like a console to sit behind when you are playing with your mouse? And for us folks who have always used and worked in recording and broadcast facilities, ya don't sit behind a mouse. At least not for live. I mean everybody is functioning today as thalidomide children that have one finger for a hand. And it's not even connected to the end of their arm but to their elbow instead. So a console wouldn't do them much good. And where the mouse would be the only logical thing to use. And I know some of those kids. They're not kids anymore. They are just out of work adults living below the poverty level. So they have been slammed by God not once but twice for doing nothing wrong. Because their equipment is up to date or as functional as everyone else's. And that's called bigotry and discrimination. And there is no room for that anymore on this largely shrinking planet.

This is where the United States has dropped the ball on socialized medical care for all that couldn't otherwise afford it and that includes myself. So be damned with the socialist nonsense. It's not going to take any wealth away from the wealthy they will always be wealthy regardless of the tax structure. They are just greedy creepy alien beings from another planet that we have to live with. And I believe some of the science fiction movies which have all come true and where these people living amongst us are not us. You can't be a human being if you want somebody else to suffer. That is inhuman which defines what they are. So yes, I think we have been invaded and it's been that way for eons. The joke is on us the actual human beings of the planet. And everybody is willing to accept that. I'm not. But there is also nothing I can do about it except leave this planet and find a better planet. And that's not in my budget today. It is over at Space X. Who I guess are hybrid since they are not NASA? And that seems to be the new wave of the future as well? Is NASA going to continue to launch stuff? Most probably. You can't always have commercial private companies putting up secret military satellites after all. But maybe you can. Spelled Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, Boeing, General Dynamics and perhaps even Space X? But they have pretty significant budgets compared to the backyard terrorists. Who have to make their own weapons of mass destruction and will hopefully die in the process?

So what do you think the next significant attack by terrorists might do to the recording industry? Do you think low distortion electronics will make any difference in someone's life if they don't have any food to eat or a home to live in? And where they only want to hear a cut of Leonard Skynyrd doing Free Bird? Thankfully that has not yet occurred. But all of the terrorists are getting the right results and ideas to use drones with poison biological or chemical warfare. And all you'd have to do is just fly around over top of a city and you have 1 million dead people overnight. Maybe more? And I would think that that would have some kind of an impact on the recording industry? It's only a matter of time before it happens. And the people that do it are all inbred morons that are all suicidal and have no knowledge of value of life. They just think they're going to go have fun with 72 virgins? Why 72? Why not 64 or 96? And how long you think that equipment would last if you had to work that hard? Or work it hard like that? So these (please excuse this referral) people that want to keep doing this can only really be stopped, for a while, with a nice big hydrogen fusion bomb. Because we know that works and it works well. Ask the Japanese. They'll tell ya. Because of you don't want another one of those bombs dropped on ya ya better be nice to us. Or at least nice to the US and us. And then they are all happy to comply. Maybe recording studios are going through the same thing today and I'm one of those people underneath that hydrogen bomb?

I frequently make a lot of methane bombs. And I only needed a drive through to get it.
Mx. Remy Ann David

Davedog Sun, 03/03/2013 - 22:58

Like others I use ProTools. Since I didnt rely on digital anything and until the last couple of years recorded to an Alesis HD24 or tape, I didnt go through all of the upgrades and various system legacies that many have experienced. The policies of Avid and many parent companies reflect the incredible egotistical and selfish lack of regard for the people who made them wealthy.

But isnt that the way of things these days.......

So my history begins with the lack of need for a proprietary interface, and a fairly modern computer setup.

And like others, populated with as high quality inputs as I can get. ProTools fills the same roll as my HD24 does with editing ability that doesnt exist with the Alesis. So I scratch the surface of the machinery...basically a digital recorder which will work in its present state for as long as I will need it too. There is no plan to update for me other than to (perhaps) go with an open architecture system or (damn.......) go back to tape! Not really.......

So while I appreciate the two or three or four sides to this issue, not all people are going to be affected the same as others who have a gob of income tied up in their systems.

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