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strange gain settings

Hi!

Yesterday I set up my studio for drumrecording and noticed something very strange...I put a sm57 on the snare about 1" from the skin and 1,5" in from the rI'm edge pointed towards the center of the drum. I also put a mb2k from Audio-Technica under the snare about 2" from the skin but more straight angled on the center.

The I put the drummer in the chair and had him hit the drum.

In the cotrolroom I had the mic going into my Behringer xl2400 mixer and without touching the gain the top mic already peaked at +3db? How is this possible? It was the same thing with the bottom mic. I also had a subkick on the kickdrum that clipped straight from the beginning without me even touching the gain knob.

What's going on here? Should this even be possible with the gain set to lowest possible?

Comments

Kurt Foster Sat, 11/24/2012 - 16:35
what kind of levels are you showing on the mixers meters? put the kick channel in pfl and see what the level is please. is it clipping there?

when you say +12 do you mean the DAW or the mixer? the mixer is referenced to a +4 Vu scale while the DAW is referenced to digital scale ... 0 on the mixer should equate to something like -16dB on the DAW.

do you have the operating levels of your DAW interface set to - 10? it should be set to +4.

RemyRAD Mon, 11/26/2012 - 00:24
OK here is something that has not been mentioned. The last time I used a Behringer mixer, they had microphone pad switches. This is where ya press the microphone pad switch. That's what it's for. And yes, you should see it overload without those pad switches engaged. I mean this pad is not something in your girlfriends panties but you are allowed to press the button without getting your face slapped. Right now you're getting your face slapped. Simply because you didn't read your instruction manual to your mixer. What did you think it was an off switch? A mute switch? Every time you press that the sound goes away right? Right. It's supposed to it's a pad. It is padded down. Right now you probably think you might need a padded cell? I know I do because every time I answer the phone too quickly, I hurt my head. So I really need a padded cell.

Are antioxidants good with cellular technologies?
Mx. Remy Ann David

Nutti Mon, 11/26/2012 - 05:38
Last time I checked my behringer console it did not have a pad button anywhere...I'm not that retarded that I wouldn't have pushed it already if I had one on the channel. You can check it yourself on the behringer homepage if you don't belive me. It's the behringer xenyx xl2400 mixer.

The pfl is +12 and clipping on the mixer, I'll try to put an xlr-plug cable in the line to see if that works.

What are the external pads correct word in english so that I could search ebay for them...guess I could use atleast 3 at this point.

Thanks for answers all!

Boswell Mon, 11/26/2012 - 08:03
The whole problem has the feel of the gain trims not being set low enough. The Xenyx XL2400 spec says the XLR inputs will take +24dBu with the gain trim at 0dB (fully anticlockwise). If that is to be believed, you do not need external line attenuators (pads) for what you are doing, as an SM57 on a snare is not capable of producing that amount of output amplitude. Mind you, there are other parts of the XL2400 spec that defy belief, such as the unbalanced insert sends being +22dBu (10Vrms).

The TRS jack inputs are 10dB less sensitive than the XLR inputs, so, as Boulder pointed out, a XLR-TRS adaptor feeding the jack input would give you an additional 10dB headroom for dynamic mics.

Kurt Foster Mon, 11/26/2012 - 11:17
Nutti, post: 396800 wrote: Last time I checked my behringer console it did not have a pad button anywhere...I'm not that retarded that I wouldn't have pushed it already if I had one on the channel. You can check it yourself on the behringer homepage if you don't belive me. It's the behringer xenyx xl2400 mixer.

The pfl is +12 and clipping on the mixer, I'll try to put an xlr-plug cable in the line to see if that works.

What are the external pads correct word in english so that I could search ebay for them...guess I could use atleast 3 at this point.

Thanks for answers all!

Look for
[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.audio-te…"].: AT8202 Adjustable In-Line Attenuator[/]="http://www.audio-te…"].: AT8202 Adjustable In-Line Attenuator[/] :.

60 bucks msrp but about 35 bucks street.

i bought 6 to use with my atm pro35 clip on condensers ... they work great.

RemyRAD Mon, 11/26/2012 - 15:52
Well I cannot be 100% precise with 100% of the Chinese trash out there. Behringer's I've used, all had pad switches. So, if no pad, you have a fixed 20 DB gain, nonadjustable microphone preamp. The trim control is merely a secondary buffer make up amplifier, after the 20 DB microphone preamp. Many microphone preamp seven been designed in this way and are generally referred to as goof proof microphone preamps. The concept behind it is that, no microphone with only 20 DB of gain, should ever overload the circuit. Any additional necessary gain is made up by the secondary buffer make up amplifier that you are tweaking as they gain trim control. Legendary microphone preamp such as the Neve 1073 had a similar design concept. Whereas my later/newer Neve, utilized variable gain microphone preamps that all have pads built into the front end. These types of preamps offer up a broader range of useful color, which can prevent the need for any equalization. So obviously, Behringer has cloned both types. Yet you should still not be having problems with that goof proof preamp. So again, it leads me to believe it's operator error of some type?

The proper term is a "pad". SHURE makes numerous XLR barrel pads, some with a fixed pad of -50 and others that have switches for -20 & -30 DB pads. The only problem is with these guys is if you use a phantom powered microphone. Fine for a dynamic mic or a battery-powered condenser microphone but not a phantom powered condenser microphone utilizing external XLR barrel pads.

Now that concept of utilizing an XLR-1/4 inch TRS patch cord and going into the line input, it's a valid suggestion for non-phantom powered microphones. Honestly though, none of us have these kinds of problems? Which still leaves me to believe that's some kind of small operator error? Are you getting that pressing only a single PFL button? Or, are you soloing more than one at a time? Like on the microphone channel and on the bus output, simultaneously? No? I mean I know that electrons move faster when it gets colder but it's not quite that cold in Finland? Maybe it is? So maybe the best solution to the problem would be to move closer to the equator?

I'm headin' south.
Mx. Remy Ann David

Kurt Foster Mon, 11/26/2012 - 16:28
RemyRAD, post: 396825 wrote: The only problem is with these guys is if you use a phantom powered microphone. Fine for a dynamic mic or a battery-powered condenser microphone but not a phantom powered condenser microphone utilizing external XLR barrel pads.


I'm headin' south.
Mx. Remy Ann David

the Audio Technica pads I posted the link to pass phantom just fine.

RemyRAD Mon, 11/26/2012 - 17:39
Yeah, but probably not for a high current requirement Neumann 87? For an electret, probably, no problem? I'd like to see how they get full Phantom current past the pad and the load? It really must be pretty anemic? I mean how do ya get the full potential of the Phantom to get past the pad? I mean resisters resist everything. So it'll also pad down the potential of the Phantom. And you certainly wouldn't want to have some diodes in that pad. Maybe it does? Oh but it shouldn't add too much distortion? Right. It made good, Japanese style good. I certainly wouldn't trust that thing on a 250-500 foot cable run. No way.

It shouldn't need a pad, anyhow! Use the right microphone and you won't be having this problem. Obviously... it ain't the right microphone to use the way you're using it with your mixer? And that's called operator error. So just like a system integrator has to do, you have to do the same thing as an audio engineer. If that doesn't work, you change out the microphone. The microphone and the mixer are trying to tell you you're not doing it right. So listen to your equipment LOL!

I only state the obvious.
Mx. Remy Ann David

Davedog Mon, 11/26/2012 - 21:04
So back to the mixer input problem......Q?: Are you taking your feed off of the sub bus or a direct out?


Ahhh...I see that has already been answered........So to get this straight....the individual mic inputs are peaking like crazy? And theres not a pad, SO is there a switch that selects between the line level and the mic level? Have you tried it in both positions?

Q?: #2....Have you ever used this mixer for recording before? And if so was this same thing happening then?

Kurt Foster Mon, 11/26/2012 - 22:08
RemyRAD, post: 396851 wrote: Yeah, but probably not for a high current requirement Neumann 87? Mx. Remy Ann David

why would anyone need a pad for an 87? there's one built in.

the application i used these for is with my (for the 3rd time) [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.audio-te…"]ATM Pro 35[/]="http://www.audio-te…"]ATM Pro 35[/]'s which are clip ons.

 


these little puppies really sound surprisingly good for what they are. i use them mostly to close mic drums on snare top / bottom and rack toms. i usually go with a 421 or an atm 4033 / sm7 or a U87 on the floor tom. for o/h's and hat, i have a collection of old akg 451's.

anyway the pads from atm have passed phantom just fine. in fact they were made just for this application. when i first got the 35's i was using a Mackie sr24 and the 35's clipped the pre amp just like the op's mics are clipping the behringer.
Attached files

RemyRAD Mon, 11/26/2012 - 23:52
I love these hot microphones. Why bother with microphone preamps anymore if we don't have to? I mean even my 67's & 87's, have output pads on those microphones because they can produce nearly line level output.

Why would anybody want a pad for an 87 since it already has one? Simple. I'd rather have the additional noise from the preamp when I gain up than from the microphone. Now you still need that 87 built-in pad to keep from overloading that FET as opposed to your microphone preamp input. I'm surprised you'd ask that question? I know you know that already. At least I think you did? LOL. It's late. So if you want that preamp coloration from going more open loop at higher gain staging, the output from the microphone will need to be padded or rather the input to the preamp. While the microphone is not necessarily being overloaded and not requiring its own built-in pad. If you're placing it on say the floor tom, you might want that capsule pad engaged. And then for the more open loop sound from the preamp you would also need the pad engaged on the preamp as well. Because you're going for tone and you'll be able to deal with any noise with the noise gate that you were planning to put the drum through anyhow.

It's all good... it's all good.
Mx. Remy Ann David

bouldersound Tue, 11/27/2012 - 09:43
Kurt Foster, post: 396887 wrote: why would anyone need a pad for an 87? there's one built in.

That's great, but the OP's problem is with SM57s. All this angst over phantom and external pads is a waste of time. If the dynamic mic is really and truly overloading the pre at minimum gain then use an XLR-TRS adapter into the line input and move on. I would have had this thing tracked, mixed and mastered in the time it's taken for the conversation to get this far.

RemyRAD Wed, 11/28/2012 - 22:35
While I really can't believe your problem is not that of operator error, external pads only cost about two dollars. Yup, two dollars worth of resisters for the five that you'll need to create an H pad. You can afford that can't you? There are plenty examples of these H pads, in the schematics of other classic microphone preamps. Like I said... it only takes five cheap resisters. Purchasing those XLR barrel pads, you're paying more for the connectors and the barrel then you are the pad. So if ya build those pads yourself, it'll only cost ya two bucks. But we all know... that's not really the problem.

I know it's wrong... it's operator error.
Mx. Remy Ann David

RemyRAD Thu, 11/29/2012 - 13:23
I like that one Boswell LOL. Sounds like I'm rubbing off on you mate? How's that for my British designed sentence?

[="http://recording.org/members/45298.html"]Nutti[/]="http://recording.or…"]Nutti[/]... you sure are [[url=http://="http://recording.or…"]Nutti[/]="http://recording.or…"]Nutti[/], LOL. Yeah it took it down -18 (really... -20 so it's a variable gain pad a.k.a. secondary buffer amplifier, like I described. And what threw you for such a loss. I was using jargon used on all professional and many proconsumer consoles and preamps. They just changed it around a little bit which through you quite a curve didn't it? And you'll find this kind of crap goes on at all levels in our trade. Put a special word on it and it goes viral. Like you might want to use the " THRUST " control on a Tone Lux Preamp just because it says thrust. Or was that on a piece of the API equipment? Either way Paul thought of it first I think? So it's a marketing thingy. And if that term sounds cool to everybody... everybody will want it. So it's really sad when manufacturers decide to relabel stuff and do stuff that's basically kind of stupid. But they do it to help the less experienced entry-level person and look what still happens? Because if you can't get your head around signal flow and gain staging, you'll never make it as an engineer. And that's why you should just stare at schematics of this stuff even if you don't understand it. For the most part, (in a western parlance) it's all left to right and top to bottom. And you'll start to see the signal flow. You'll see the amplification stages. You'll see the loss stages. You'll see that combining stages. You'll see the output stages. It's all blocks of groups of blocks. And basically for every up there has to be a down. For every amplification stage, it's followed by a loss stage or combining stage. You don't have to understand what all the little squiggly parts actually mean or do. But that too will become obvious after a while when you see that everything is designed not to much differently from everything else. The real difference comes in those ultra-expensive high-end boutique pieces. These outboard items are designed with no holds barred and a Midas like budget. And if you modify crappy equipment it's just modified crappy equipment. Of course, if that makes you feel better, you're likely to work better, simply because it puts you into the right frame of mind and ear. And then when you still cannot produce a viable hit, it ain't your equipment and it ain't you. It's only because you didn't throw enough money at the right people. Poor musician/singer songwriters, rarely become famous unless enough money is used for marketing, promotion, advertising, publicists, managers, entertainment attorneys. Simply because talent really doesn't matter in this business. It's good when we have it. But you can certainly tell... there isn't much out there today. People can't even come up with a good melody today because all of the great melodies have already been copyrighted. And that's the new pop-culture of this new generation. Completely melodiwaning. There I just created a new word. And you can copyright that!

Crazy in the head™© Inc. and I guess I should also phonogram this?
Mx. Remy Ann David

Nutti Fri, 11/30/2012 - 00:37
Mmmmkey...

As I've mentioned earlier in a thread, I've read a few books and watched youtube videos and am now in the phase when I've started to do some recordings. This is me starting right now. It's not possible for me to have 30 years of experience from reading some books and watching youtube, that's why I write in the newbie forum. Isn't this forum ment for people like me that seek help of understanding something without getting smacked in the face for lack of knowledge?

This time of drumrecording I'm actually the drummer myself. After 13 years of drumming, this is how hard I hit my snare when playing punk/metal music. It would not be natural for me to hit softer in this genere. Maybe something sgill is wrong with my setup or is it possible for a snare hitting 150db spl?

kmetal Fri, 11/30/2012 - 02:39
i've recorded hardcore/metal/punk, on a 4trak, stock pre's. your not gonna blow out the 57. or a 58. whoever made the 57 made it w/ consideration of loud transient sources. i don't think it's possible to overload a 57 a couple inches away from a snare drum. if you do set the gain into a distortion type setting, it can be good or not. a 57 is not easy to distort, and it usually doesn't sound bad when distorted on purpose. just be easy on your snare pre-amp, and you will be fine.
otherwise it's defective equipment that needs to be addressed.

RemyRAD Sat, 12/01/2012 - 18:26
Of course, this is not to say, that perhaps this console, this mass-produced, Chinese console, may have been a completely defective production run? Say where 1000 ohm resistors were mistakenly installed instead of say, 10,000 ohm resistors? You know what Chinese quality control can be? So while it may have been possible that the mixer pass some simple mid-frequency tone at its input to the output, that it actually passed signal and perhaps that was all that was checked before shipping? I mean I've seen this done in person when working for Scully recording instruments. Sometimes you get a entry level employee that has mistakenly miss read an entire box of resistor values. And then it went on to the test technicians that verified certain test parameters. Then it came to me, Quality Control Manager and the Final Test Technician. And therein is your differences between mass-produced imported stuff and good old-fashioned American-made professional audio equipment for the studio and broadcast purposes.

Given that scenario... one of the other ways to perhaps disprove that is a swap with a different but similar mixer. Which also could be much smaller where you would only plug drum microphones into for the test. So say something like a 4 input mixer? Because you simply have to roll the possible problems out assuming that you already know that there isn't any 57, 58, 421, RE-20, D-112, or anything else like that that would overload on even the world's loudest snare drum. Won't happen. Has never happened. Designed to not happen. Which then leaves only two possibilities. Defective equipment or the possibility of operator error somewhere along the signal flow chain of gain staging.

So please believe me when I tell you, nobody thinks you are stupid. We all make stupid mistakes. Especially something that was easily overlooked. I mean there are proper test procedures one can go through with a simple sine wave generator and an oscillator. In fact you can pretty much utilize your computer audio interface along with reasonable stereo software programs to create a electronic verification test bench, in the box. And then of which the only other possible external device that would be helpful to have is a simple AC voltmeter that can measure a voltage of 1-5 V full scale at 1 kHz. And any six dollar AC voltmeter can do that, any, every.

This is one of the aspects that makes our computers, with our computer audio interfaces, so intriguing to use along with our various and sundry audio software programs. Once you basically establish your, what we used to call zero VU, average operating level with an expected headroom of +18 all the way up to +30, is basically expressed a day in our digital parlance of a average operating level somewhere around -18, -15, -12, average operating level which yields had room to zero DB FS. Meaning that digital simply stops and has nothing further to offer, nothing except clipped distortion. So these average operating levels can become very confusing to people when sometimes integrating withUnintended different average level concept designed and gained stagings structured devices. Of which there are usually logical workarounds. Some cost $.50 where others cost $500. And in which you actually have no other alternatives. But really, this shouldn't be one of those. Which would then lead me to believe it's the resistor mixup scenario? And so a defective piece of equipment because, guaranteed, it ain't the microphone.

Understanding of your limitations as an entry-level enthusiast, utilizing the computer, your interface and your software as an audio test bench verification device, may be beyond your grasp? And without that secondary mixer to rule out operator error, you would likely then be forced to take the mixer in for professional testing and service. And then if that doesn't solve your problems, it's time to go book time at a local studio.

It's OK, I dealt with a bunch of Bozo and entry-level test technicians. And they needed me, the Quality Control Manager and Final Test Technician, to help guide them through the process. With which after a short period of time, their expertise than him prove with leaps and bounds. And you can only learn that, by doing it and reporting back some decent value test procedure verifications. So not only do you learn how to make wonderful and proper recordings, you learn how to make them sound wonderful and proper by gaining a full understanding of what your equipment can and cannot do. I mean this as to go beyond more than mommy my tummy hurts. And so if you want to even record your own music or the music of others, ya have to understand the design concept and parameters behind the equipment. Along with the elemental design and use concept behind the equipment you are using. By understanding that, we'll then start to understand why the gain structure between different pieces of equipment is so important, to provide for acceptable system integration.

Of course one could also take these suggestions and compare themselves to trying to use a children's toy doctor set to provide an actual appendectomy? And where if I was stranded on a tropical island with another person who needed an immediate appendectomy and the only tools were a children's toy doctor set, I figure out how to sharpen a piece of plastic into a usable scalpel, in order to save this person's life. And that's thinking out of the doctor set box. I mean you just need to sharpen some plastic things you broken apart on a rock. So how hard is that? So even when you don't have all the right tools designed specifically to do something you need to do, you destroy, build, modify, construct, whatever you have, with whatever available means are available to you. So when you don't have a pop filter for a microphone, what do you use, when you absolutely positively have to have a pop filter? And you're on location. And there are no stores anywhere within a 100 mile radius? The answer my friend, is blowing in the wind. You'd want it to blow in the wind for a little while... why? Because... it's the sock you just took off your foot and are now wearing your shoes without any socks. At least on 1 foot maybe two for stereo? Need to cover a hurricane for the news and don't want to get your microphone wet? You stick it in a plastic bag. It'll sound like crap but it'll still be working.

I like to wash mine first before doing that
Mx. Remy Ann David

Nutti Sun, 12/02/2012 - 02:00
So I made a video for you guys to watch where I simply put my old behringer mx1602a headphone mixer next to the drumset and hooked up the sm57 via xlr. Nothing else. Just the powercable and the xlr connected and it peaks +4db with gain knob turned fully anti clockwise. This is exactly how I've got the 57 connected to the main mixer and I get exactly the same results? I could hear around if someone has another mixer that is not behringer and try with that, but I think it will show the same results. I got a soundcraft mixer at our bandcamp that I could get but I'm sceptic to the idea that it would come up with different results.

here's the vid
[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.youtube…"]video 2012 12 02 10 49 59 - YouTube[/]="http://www.youtube…"]video 2012 12 02 10 49 59 - YouTube[/]

RemyRAD Sun, 12/02/2012 - 17:39
When you're in solo mode like that, peaks of +4 are perfectly fine. That preamble go up to +18 before you have to worry about overload. So it's within normal operating parameters. I mean no red peak overload lights are coming on, which means it is not exceeding its available head room. So this is not really to be considered normal metering. This is simply to verify that you are at least within proper level parameters from the preamp. The preamp is not being exceeded its capabilities thus no peak lights are flashing. So I can understand your confusion. And yes, without any pad switches, that mixer in fact has proof proof, fixed gain microphone preamps and you are adjusting a post microphone preamp buffer amplifier instead. So you're good to go.

The same can be said for the metering in your software. As long as you are not continuously peaking out, no worries. Occasional small transient clips on things like drums, can at least be tolerated. Though not necessarily totally desirable, neither is your mixer is it? This is not going to keep you from making a good recording I can assure you that. If you are truly concerned about exceeding the mixer's output parameters, take a freaking voltmeter to the output and make sure you are not exceeding +18 DB which is somewhere around 10 volts, Though that is not a proper or exact figure since I'm nowhere near my voltmeter nor DB to voltage slide rule. The only actual problem here is that your green. And that you know this is perfectly and 100% acceptable. And who's to say that the snare drum isn't the problem itself? I mean just because you think it might sound good doesn't mean your microphone will think it sounds good LOL. Even if you are using a 57. So then we start tuning the drums differently and/or trying different microphone placements, to start getting what you actually want. This is not drive-through. It goes well beyond setting up a microphone and tweaking gain. You might need a whole body makeover? LOL. I guess when ya have a crappy mixer, sometimes you have to make compromise adjustments? After all, you made a compromise by selecting the thing to begin with. And you don't expect there to be any compromise in the sound? I mean if you understood the basic operation of how mixers work to begin with, you would not be having these problems or issues. It seems like you're looking for problems? It seems like you have purchased a compromise mixer and so you can only expect compromise sound from your recordings, which is a good excuse for inept engineering? Don't go there. The mixer is perfectly fine. Your recordings can be perfectly wonderful. Don't clip your software too often. I mean if your recordings don't sound right? You're still learning how to do which are doing. None of us would have a problems using your gizmo tron mixer. So stop screwing around with stupid time wasting crap and get to some recording will ya?

Maybe it sounds better with the vodka?
Mx. Remy Ann David

Boswell Mon, 12/03/2012 - 04:02
Thanks for posting the video. It helped to see what you were doing.

The observation that in solo mode channel 4 produced a meter peak of +7dB on a very similar hit to that which produced only +4dB on channel 3 is evidence that something is not lined up or calibrated.

If you can continue to use the mixer either as is or with XLR-TRS adaptors, then that's a temporary solution to your problem. However, I maintain that there is a fault, and that if you want to go further with it, you will need to use some test tones. We can help you if needed.

Nutti Mon, 12/03/2012 - 04:51
That was the mixer I use for headphones, so I don't mind if those are lined up or not. Havn't tried it on the main mixer though... but my main question was if it's normal levels for a sm 57 on a snare with those gain settings?

I called a friend today so he'll come over on wednesday to control the recording so I'm hoping for a somewhat decent recording

bouldersound Mon, 12/03/2012 - 08:00
The lowest gain setting through the mic inputs of the old Behringer is +10dB while most other small mixers that I've used go down to 0dB of gain. On my little Mackie 1604VLZ Pro I often have to set the gain at 0dB for things like kick drum and its level still comes out a few dB hot. That extra 10dB of gain would push kick and probably snare to excessive levels.

RemyRAD Tue, 12/04/2012 - 01:36
Regardless, he's only getting +4 to +7 excursions on the meter, with a snare drum. Which still means there is 10 DB of available headroom.

While Boswell may have observed a small gain differential between inputs, what else can you expect with a device that's probably using ± 20% value resistors? OK so maybe ± 10% value resistors? There's nothing wrong with the mixer. It's a compromise, entry level, inexpensive, virtually goof proof, piece of stuff, not necessarily intended to deliver world-class specifications and delivery? So it's working fine.

If you think your drum set sounds screwy, modify your drums. Duct tape, handkerchiefs, wallets, re-tuning, different heads, damper adjustments. Because there is nothing wrong with the mixer.

And then he went on to say it's only for his monitoring purposes. So what up with that? Then who cares? Build yourself a passive mixer as you don't need an active mixer and then no problems. And how did that 57 get plugged into your monitor mixer without first getting its feed from your source recorder input? This is where it's not making any sense. You are doing beginner things that have no relevance in your recording process. Slight distortion in a monitor mixer? Give me a break? Spend some real money and I might get upset? Purchase a one-size-fits-all, general use device and you get what you pay for which are a series of compromises to be made. It's OK. It's all right to make these compromises. These compromises are not affecting your recording quality. And when it comes to pop music... distortion happens. If it's extremely objectionable? Obviously a re-thought about your wiring and/or equipment integration has to be modified. And on no budget, that's obviously not doable. So you end up either making small inexpensive modifications by creating resistor pads or you live with it. Nothing is faulty here beyond the general-purpose low-cost equipment's capabilities. Did you ever think, it wasn't necessarily designed for close snare drum or bass drum usage? Maybe it was designed more in mind for speaking presentations, light voiced folk singers with an acoustic guitar? And so you're not exactly using it in its intended application. Which doesn't mean it's bad. It just means you have to get up to speed with a soldering iron. And this is what all recording engineers have to do, throughout their career. That's why were called audio engineers and not consumer engineers.

How is anybody supposed to open up these sealed packets of ketchup? I think they're Defective, as there is no hole in the packet to let the ketchup out with? I mean how do you unscrew one of these flexible packets?

See what I mean? Same thing. There isn't anything wrong with the ketchup packet. Obviously the ketchup package requires a modification by tearing it open. There isn't any lid to unscrew. Unless of course you get the large economy size in a bottle. Which obviously costs a lot more than free. And mixers can be looked at in the same way as a packet of ketchup. Still quite usable. Maybe not quite as abundantly versatile? So the only thing that is actually wrong with the mixer is the person using it. Nothing to feel bad about as you're learning. Why do you think professionals don't bother with bargain toys? Because you run into those situations that limit your capabilities and versatility. And when you are working within a restricted budget, you just have to think outside the box more. You have to be innovative and figure out your workarounds. This does not come easily or overnight. This is an acquired talent and not something that you are necessarily born with or that makes any sense. It's not as logical as you might think. It's audio which is a little like voodoo and black magic. So if you believe in something, it'll work. If you don't... it won't.

You can sleep easy now.
Mx. Remy Ann David

RemyRAD Tue, 12/04/2012 - 14:00
Well if you wanted to pay attention to what people are saying about your question, you might be able to learn something? If everything you're saying is with the wrong techno-speak, learn the jargon from us correctly. I mean you either came here to learn something or you came here to bitch about something which doesn't help you learn anything. So there is a lot to glean here if ya know what you're little hurt feelings get in your way. We're not here to denigrate you. We're here to help you. And you are complaining about rhetoric. So let's see if we cannot get your jargon of your techno-speak properly aligned to indicate what exactly is going on here? So if we are providing incorrect information and data about your recording issues, because you are using the wrong jargon, what are you getting upset about? I take it you're not a child are you? As far as I'm concerned, you're an adult to me. And if you don't want to learn anything and just want to bitch, what's the point? Right, you may not want to ask any other questions until you understand what questions you are asking. So ask a question and receive an answer. Contemplate the answer and incorporate it into your audio thought process. If you don't understand something, ask about it and stop bitching. How are we supposed to answer your questions if your questions are incorrect? This may be due to a language barrier because you speak Finnish and I don't. So I apologize if there is a language barrier here. No malice or insults are intended. We're having a communication problem with you and your having a communication problem with your equipment. So we either have to align your use of professional nomenclature since we are obviously offering up solutions to issues that don't exist?

Come on now... you can do it.
Mx. Remy Ann David

Davedog Thu, 12/06/2012 - 03:22
I didnt watch the video but if are using this in 'solo' you can expect an extra +20db of gain through even the most basic mixer. Its another gain stage and is parallel to the channel being used. Somewhere theres a schematic that would show this tapping off the circuit and then coming back to it at a later point after going through a summing amp to power up the solo signal.

For what its worth like Bouldersound is saying, the really cheap mixers will not have enough of a pad to get the signal down to zero and its not unusual to have a +14db of gain with the pad off on fast response sources like a drum hit. To have ANY kind of control for this situation you will have to heed the advice of an inline pad or find an outboard pre that can handle the input because obviously what you have is incapable. It gets down to what you're trying to accomplish. If you can get hold of the Soundcraft through the school and use it it will certainly be 100% better than any Ber*^^$@@ger product.

Making choices like this is what becoming a professional is all about..........scene number ONE....."It aint working....." "Fix it or trash it"

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