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Tascam MS-16 & Otari MX70

Howdy,

I'm looking for some input in regards to both these two 1 inch 16 track machines because I'm in the market for one.
Both are currently going for about $1000-$2000 depending on the condition and seller.
I've never used either of these machines and don't know anyone that has had experience with them.
Any input from those of you (on parts availability, functionality, reliability, transport quality, etc..) that have had experience using them would be appreciated.
I'm also unsure what these went for new, back when they were still being sold (would be interesting to know).

I have the opportunity to get a MS-16 and drive it back from California to Utah myself, the seller has sent me pictures of the heads (but I don't know how to judge them or if you even can by photos?).

Here's a link to the listing:
https://reverb.com/item/3480066-Tascam-ms-16

Thanks Everyone

Comments

DonnyThompson Sat, 04/29/2017 - 01:39
kmetal, post: 449884, member: 37533 wrote: Probably the next step is voice command daw/control surface. Hey Siri turn up .2 db on the kick. Lol. 'Sorry Kyle nick isn't available'.... 'no, KICK'...
Lol. You made me spit coffee with that one.
I envy you K ... because you're younger and you still have the fire for the craft. I remember that feeling, of being totally consumed by the journey; of learning and then applying, making mistakes (sometimes big ones LOL) and committing those things to memory.
Even troubleshooting problems used to be fun at times, "that" moment where the lightbulb goes on over your head, that "ahh! I get it!" sensation.
Honestly, I don't know how much more I want to invest in the craft. There's still a part of me that gets excited when I look at gear porn LOL but there's also a feeling that's creeped in over the past year or so that buying gear like that would just be a personal indulgence now. I don't think I could really make a substantial living off of having a pro commercial facility again, at least not here in my area.
And... it needs to be said... I'm woefully out of touch with what people like musically these days. I'm really not the guy you want recording or mixing your hip-hop track, or sample-driven pop songs.
I have one more big project coming up ... it's a fundraising album in which the proceeds are going to charity -specifically opiate addiction recovery. I've signed on the best of the best of northeast Ohio's veteran musicians, (and one very cool, talented and knowledgeable engineer/musician from Pennsylvania) ... everyone is enthusiastic about the project, myself included. It's going to be fun to track entire rhythm section takes at once. I miss that.
But in the end, I'm a writer, arranger, musician and producer who specializes in music from a time that's now past - what is now referred to as "classic rock".
I'm not familiar enough with current styles to even pretend that I could do a good job for those clients. The rub is ... at my age, I'm
not really motivated to want to get familiar with those styles.
And that's no one's fault but mine.
I'm sure I'll always be involved in music and recording somehow, to some degree. But I don't feel quite as passionate about it as I once did.
I also envy guys like Chris (audiokid ) who still have the passion and fire for the craft, and who have maintained familiarity with current musical styles and mixing trends, who still look to build recording facilities of their own and to never give up. That's impressive to me. I'm jealous of you guys and your mind sets.
;)
-d.

audiokid Sat, 04/29/2017 - 01:55
DonnyThompson, post: 449886, member: 46114 wrote: I also envy guys like Chris (audiokid ) who still have the passion and fire for the craft, and who have maintained familiarity with current musical styles and mixing trends, who still look to build recording facilities of their own and to never give up. That's impressive to me. I'm jealous of you guys and your mind sets.
;)
-d.
Thanks. I don't think it ever leaves any of us. It comes goes but never leaves. Its our gift and burden. I'm on a new trend which is acoustic pop. Maybe you could go that way too Donny. You have the chops for it. Its fun and timeless imho.

On that note... wait for it.......... I'm told there is software coming that we will be able to type in the lyrics, then attach any voice emulator you want and it will actually sound like that person singing with dynamic. So... not that I am saying this is my dream come true lol! But, since I can't sing like Katy Perry, I can write like her no problem. And, I think it might me fun to create my own vocals no differently than I play keyboards.

This technology means there is going to be a new trend that will most likely sound pretty whacked but who cares I say. Bring it on.I will always have some added sense of true to add to the plastic world. Hopefully I nail one good song before I quit.

I'm glad I can actually play the guitar. Laptop musicians.... its just getting started. Who would have ever thought 4 piece bands would become dated. Crazy computers,

kmetal Sat, 04/29/2017 - 03:30
DonnyThompson, post: 449886, member: 46114 wrote: Lol. You made me spit coffee with that one.
I envy you K ... because you're younger and you still have the fire for the craft. I remember that feeling, of being totally consumed by the journey; of learning and then applying, making mistakes (sometimes big ones LOL) and committing those things to memory.
Even troubleshooting problems used to be fun at times, "that" moment where the lightbulb goes on over your head, that "ahh! I get it!" sensation.
Honestly, I don't know how much more I want to invest in the craft. There's still a part of me that gets excited when I look at gear porn LOL but there's also a feeling that's creeped in over the past year or so that buying gear like that would just be a personal indulgence now. I don't think I could really make a substantial living off of having a pro commercial facility again, at least not here in my area.
And... it needs to be said... I'm woefully out of touch with what people like musically these days. I'm really not the guy you want recording or mixing your hip-hop track, or sample-driven pop songs.
I have one more big project coming up ... it's a fundraising album in which the proceeds are going to charity -specifically opiate addiction recovery. I've signed on the best of the best of northeast Ohio's veteran musicians, (and one very cool, talented and knowledgeable engineer/musician from Pennsylvania) ... everyone is enthusiastic about the project, myself included. It's going to be fun to track entire rhythm section takes at once. I miss that.
But in the end, I'm a writer, arranger, musician and producer who specializes in music from a time that's now past - what is now referred to as "classic rock".
I'm not familiar enough with current styles to even pretend that I could do a good job for those clients. The rub is ... at my age, I'm
not really motivated to want to get familiar with those styles.
And that's no one's fault but mine.
I'm sure I'll always be involved in music and recording somehow, to some degree. But I don't feel quite as passionate about it as I once did.
I also envy guys like Chris (audiokid ) who still have the passion and fire for the craft, and who have maintained familiarity with current musical styles and mixing trends, who still look to build recording facilities of their own and to never give up. That's impressive to me. I'm jealous of you guys and your mind sets.
;)
-d.

Best thing I did for my career in years was go on hiatus last year. I did some design work for a studio in Ny but beyond that nada. it's helped me maintain the fire. i encountered a plethora of technical problems at the two big studios which really got me on this computer science / electronics kick in the last couple years. I intend to develop a realtime remote system, as well as have a situation where all relevant OS an Daws are available for people like me who have their life's work on a stack of CD-Rs and a USB drive under the couch... basically seamless file sharing, realtime remote, are necessary in a situation like mine where there's two studios, and several engineers involved. And gear is expensive lol so if there's anything I can learn to make or improve it's a good way into better sound on a mucians budget.

It's funny how picking up a guitar at my cousins 25 years ago turned into watching physics classes in my spare time to better understand sound properties... wtf. It takes a lot of people around the world.

I always feel like guys Chris and Donny and Kurt were of age thru the best era music and recording will see for a long time. There was such a convergence of cultural shift and technology with art.

DonnyThompson congrats on the new gig! Working with pro mucians takes the work out of recording. It's for a good cause too probably something far too many people can relate to one way or another. I would love to see more money time and technology devoted to brain research, since it's an area we know little about relative to other areas of science. I saw a ted talk the other day with a guy who's company was contracted to map a rats brain down to like an atomic level or something, using a core sample of the rats brain, and a high tech like X-ray type video of the rat having a thought while it was alive, like in a basic press a button test or whatever. They are actually printing this map out on tape lol, which is timely her on RO, he said there's miles of this brain map basically a DAT tape for it. Anyway it was actually a legit Stanford professor or something like that. It's facinating to look at something like dependency from a biological, chemical, socialiological, and metaphysical perspective, there's no complete answer yet. Best of luck to you, that guy from Penn, and the rest of the cast and crew, they're in good hands!

DonnyThompson Sat, 04/29/2017 - 07:33
kmetal, post: 449889, member: 37533 wrote: congrats on the new gig! Working with pro mucians takes the work out of recording.

It's not really a "gig" per se', as it's gonna be a labor of love, I'm not going to make any money off of it, I'm doing it because I feel close to the cause. ;)
I am looking forward to tracking sections of cats at one time; it's through this method that I think the greatest percentage of spontaneous "magic" can happen, at least it's been that way in my own experience.

There's gear being pooled for the sessions; last count, we had over 50 different mics - dynamics, condensers, LD, SD, tube, FET, Ribbons... a slew of preamps, some nice OB gear... I think it's gonna be a lot of fun.

At this point I need to find a space near me that I can rent on a temporary lease basis, like 90 days; somewhere where we can get in and treat the space the best that we can, that has 24/7 access... I'm in the process of looking now.
I don't need the space to mix, only to record.

If I do end up calling it quits once the project has been put into the can, then I honestly can't think of a better "last hurrah", than to record an album that way, with cats I have a great deal of respect and admiration for, all working on the same ultimate goal.

;)

ChrisH Sat, 04/29/2017 - 14:26
DonnyThompson That sounds like a great time you have ahead of you.
To be honest your post made me a little sad because I personally can't imagine throwing in the towel but I'm sure you understand where i'm coming from, haha.

Today I mixed a track ITB that was recorded to a 2 inch 16 track tape machine and some outboard compression here and there.
It was well recorded and took about 2-3 hr's to get to the "alright, this sounds good, i'll double check tomorrow".
Pretty minimal EQ was needed, mostly just trickery to get the song to come across the way I felt it needed to.
Nothing from 400hz-1500hz had to be tweaked, which is sort of rare.
Minimal 2k adjustments as well, which is an area I always find myself trying to "get right".

Just like kmetal has mentioned, there's something special about the mids with the electric guitars especially, only way to desribe it is they sound loud.

The spot in the audio spectrum that the tracks "bite" in the top end is much different then digital.

In the end, my takeaway (as of now) is that the song pretty much mixed itself, I dont know exactly why either..

ChrisH Sat, 04/29/2017 - 18:07
audiokid Chris, in regards to summing.
I have a Soundcraft 600 console that I acquired that currently I am doing some maintenance on.
Would the Folcrom you suggested be superior for summing in comparison to the soundcraft?
The problem I see with the Folcrom is the lack of ability to do parallel compression on bus' with hardware compressors that I will eventually get.

audiokid Sat, 04/29/2017 - 20:18
ChrisH, post: 449896, member: 43833 wrote: The problem I see with the Folcrom is the lack of ability to do parallel compression on bus' with hardware compressors that I will eventually get.
Buy a Nail. but yeah... I see your point

I much prefer working ITB for the most part. Maybe its because I use Samplitude.
Give me all the analog outboard gear you got for tracking. love it, After its ITB... I'm pretty much in the camp of "once ITB, stay ITB".

ChrisH, post: 449896, member: 43833 wrote: Would the Folcrom you suggested be superior for summing in comparison to the soundcraft?
The Folcrom is dependent on the preamp you use and I would suspect the API's would sound as good or better to the Soundcraft but I really have no idea. I doubt the Folcrom its likely as fun!
You are never going to achieve sonic excellence with your current rig but you are going to achieve a lot of fun. Maybe fun is were you should stay focused. Sounds like you have the rock and roll thing going on in a good way.(y)

kmetal Sat, 04/29/2017 - 20:40
DonnyThompson you know man, Phil retired from the recording business about 15 years ago, and has pretty much been working steadily in the recording buisness since then.

ChrisH another thing about the fulcrum is only one main output, most of the other boxes have a parallel main as well to feed like your monitor switcher and mixdown daw/deck. I'm sure someone like boz could stir up a nice splitter, but, just throwing it out there.

ChrisH Sun, 04/30/2017 - 10:59
audiokid, post: 449898, member: 1 wrote: You are never going to achieve sonic excellence with your current rig but you are going to achieve a lot of fun. Maybe fun is were you should stay focused. Sounds like you have the rock and roll thing going on in a good way.(y)
I'm guessing you say this because of the console and the lack of outboard processing ? Could you please elaborate?
It's good to have fun but as much as I thought it was a priority, when it actually comes to mixing/recording I go into work mode and become hyper focused and at that point whatever is going to get the mix done the best becomes priority.
So as fun as using/keeping the console might sound, I am looking audio excellence and I don't want any weak links.
One thing I think the console could be good for is monitor mix's.

Truth is, where I stood a couple weeks ago with the direction I'm headed with my rig is different than it is now. I went a couple months without mixing or tracking anything for anyone and was just focusing on my own songwriting which gave me too much time to think about what my recording setup "could be" instead of what it probably "should be".
Then this week I got hit with a couple records to mix and while I'm doing it I'm reminded of how nice modern approaches are.

Sort of "turned the car around".

audiokid Sun, 04/30/2017 - 11:56
ChrisH, post: 449909, member: 43833 wrote: One thing I think the console could be good for is monitor mix's.
Your console would be terrible for monitoring "your" mix but okay for talent mixing. Is this what you are more referring too, talent monitor controller?

ChrisH, post: 449909, member: 43833 wrote: Truth is, where I stood a couple weeks ago with the direction I'm headed with my rig is different than it is now. I went a couple months without mixing or tracking anything for anyone and was just focusing on my own songwriting which gave me too much time to think about what my recording setup "could be" instead of what it probably "should be".
Then this week I got hit with a couple records to mix and while I'm doing it I'm reminded of how nice modern approaches are.
Thats how it starts! I can relate.

ChrisH, post: 449909, member: 43833 wrote: I'm guessing you say this because of the console and the lack of outboard processing ? Could you please elaborate?

Okay, here is my direct opinion.

It lacks headroom and clarity. The preamps aren't very good, and from what I understand, they are always inline, adding a poor sonic degradation. I'm sure it was good 20 years back. A great price and Soundcraft boards have always been something I like for live. But for mixing today... get rig of it, is what I say. When it comes to "mixing (not tracking) you are way better off ITB.

Hope that helps.

As far as outboard hybrid processing (mixing OTB) ITB compression rocks. There is no comparison imho.

audiokid Sun, 04/30/2017 - 12:01
That being said, it could be the perfect method to get a 70's rock band sound though. Wooly bass, nothing past 16k and all mid. That's the sound of the 70's. In comparison to "today", everything smeared together. Its was more about the performance and band than it was about the sound. Nothing wrong with that.

Perfect for the 4/5 piece garage band, track start to finish, print and done.

ChrisH Mon, 05/01/2017 - 08:45
audiokid, post: 449910, member: 1 wrote: Your console would be terrible for monitoring "your" mix but okay for talent mixing. Is this what you are more referring too, talent monitor controller?
Yes sir, just for having options for headphone mix's.
I still have my SPL MTC Controller that you helped me decide on a few years back and I love that thing for many reasons, game changer.

audiokid, post: 449910, member: 1 wrote: The preamps aren't very good, and from what I understand, they are always inline
Yeah, that is correct, I don't know how "good" they are but they are always inline which is something I overlooked and didn't find out until I got to testing.

audiokid, post: 449911, member: 1 wrote: Its was more about the performance and band than it was about the sound.
Absolutely, I hear ya.
So that being said, if I can mentally stay in the headspace while recording (like i'm tracking to tape) where performance is priority and avoid falling back on relying on the DAW's capabilities, that would be a sweet spot for me I believe, I just hope I can.
Seems to be like the old money sang "my more you have the more you spend".

After mixing a couple tracks that were professionally tracked to 2 inch tape, it really spilled out a lot of gas I had for getting a tape machine.
I wasn't fond of the noise floor and I know I wouldn't want to track every song to tape.

So given I've posted my current rig above, where do guys think my next 2-3k should be placed then?

kmetal Mon, 05/01/2017 - 08:56
I'd go w a pultec or do like a summing rig. 3k nearly gets a nice summing mixer, 2ch lynx converter card, and a little computer to run it. The mixer adds something to your tracking arsenal and maybe mixing some stuff too. That's why I'd move into something that breaks ground.

You could also tighten things up with more utilitarian stuff like atlas or k&m heavy duty stands, power backup/isolation transformers, a NAS drive for backup and private access for clients to their files, better cabling ect.

Lol or... you could get an HD projector and screen and get a little Hollywood in your life.

Dude the radial re amp/splitter rack unit is a winner. Its on my hitlist.

DonnyThompson Mon, 05/01/2017 - 13:06
audiokid, post: 449927, member: 1 wrote: An la2a makes every mic sound good.
When your vocals sound good, your mix is always easier to do.
Ain't that the truth.
Oh, and regarding the LA2A, you don't even need much of it to get things to glue and fit nicely. Many times I'd insert it on an individual track or parallel, or on the 2 bus, and it's not like I had to push it to get it to sound great. Often times, just barely moving the VU could really set the sound up nicely. I felt the same way about most hardware Compressors... I get that you can slam them if you want, (such as the "all buttons in mode of some 1176s) and that they have a vibe of their own that way, but you don't have to do that to make them effective.

FWIW

audiokid Mon, 05/01/2017 - 16:49
OTB, 1176ln
I have a brand new one of those I am selling as well if you are interested.
Or simply use plugs.

I owned the API 2500 and ITB was much better and that would be the only other outboard comp I would get for drums.

ITB comp plugins and side chain rocks.

LA2A and 1176 together is imho the best tracking levellers there are. As combos, wow.
They add a vintage sound that makes you smile.

kmetal Mon, 05/01/2017 - 16:54
ChrisH, post: 449929, member: 43833 wrote: Very cool, this is exciting.
So now what about compression for drum tracking, what do I need/want there?
From what I've gathered seem that most engineers leave the close mic's alone with the exception of snare top, couple db reduction on OH's, and possible smashing of a room mic.

I've had good luck compressing the kick too with a DBX 166xl and the compressor in the eureka channel.

audiokid Mon, 05/01/2017 - 18:58
I should correct myself by saying, I think there are a bunch of outboard comps the work good for drums. DBX 166 indeed. I used DBX for years live. SPL Transient Designer 4 is another cool processor for drums.

But, using sidechain plugin processing for bass freq is so cool, I stopped using most outboard comps once I saw the power of sidechain. Anyone here do that? Samplitude has very cool stuff in the regards.

kmetal Mon, 05/01/2017 - 19:40
audiokid, post: 449934, member: 1 wrote: I should correct myself by saying, I think there are a bunch of outboard comps the work good for drums. DBX 166 indeed. I used DBX for years live. SPL Transient Designer 4 is another cool processor for drums.

But, using sidechain plugin processing for bass freq is so cool, I stopped using most outboard comps once I saw the power of sidechain. Anyone here do that? Samplitude has very cool stuff in the regards.

No not yet man. It's something I want to get into messing around w. I think it's gonna help any dance/hip hop stuff slam more in the future.

Anything specific in sam I/we should try?

ChrisH Tue, 05/02/2017 - 07:27
audiokid, post: 449934, member: 1 wrote: But, using sidechain plugin processing for bass freq is so cool, I stopped using most outboard comps once I saw the power of sidechain.
Yeah, side-chaining is super helpful for a lot of things, I use it often.

kmetal, post: 449935, member: 37533 wrote: I think it's gonna help any dance/hip hop stuff slam more in the future.
Exactly, it's great for making temporary room in a mix or you can use it for an effect.
Being able to make it transparent or not makes options nearly endless if you really think about it.
The character and speed of a compressor still applies of course, which add's even more options.
I use it mostly for creating temporary space for something so it can cut through and say "hello" for a split second without having to notch that space out for the entirety of the track.
If the compressor is fast enough you wont even hear it happening (if you don't want to).

audiokid Wed, 05/03/2017 - 14:31
You have a Pink Floyd feel. Nice. Its a bit muffled sounding but I like your approach a lot. The guitar solo comes in pretty loud, almost sounds like it was chopped like tape splicing.

Was this tracked and mixed through the Soundcraft?

I like what you are doing. I'd use some hpf on the vocals. It would help sharpen up the imaging.

Nice job.

kmetal Wed, 05/03/2017 - 14:33
Sounds nice man. Good ebb and flow! I'd have to hear on something better than this phone to dig in on anything, super specific. I would love to hear what this sounds like analog summed. If might let things pass within space a little sharper. If no holds barred buget was there cutting it in a Pink Floyd style room and tape/console might bring some more dimension, but even if I had the budget I don't have Alan parsons number lol.

kmetal Wed, 05/03/2017 - 14:42
This link was on the Dangerous Music site for a while. It sort of illustrates what I meant by wanting to hear this analog summed/captured.

Article:

http://www.farmelorecording.com/in-the-press/analog-vs-digital-summing/


Audio:

Digital Sum-

http://www.farmelorecording.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/CartesianDigitalSummed.mp3


Analog Sum-

http://www.farmelorecording.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/CartesianAnalogSummed.mp3


I bring this up not necessarily to re hash that old conversation, rather to suggest that the mix is in general about as good as it can get given all the current parameters, and that something involving gear or massive acoustic improvement would be the only way to get more overall out of it.

ChrisH Wed, 05/03/2017 - 14:49
audiokid, post: 449985, member: 1 wrote: Its a bit muffled sounding but I like your approach a lot.
Thank you.
I get the Pink Floyd reference more than any other reference but I've never been able to pinpoint what it is people are hearing when they say that.
Sweet! Are you talking specific elements or just the mix?

audiokid, post: 449985, member: 1 wrote: The guitar solo comes in pretty loud, almost sounds like it was chopped like tape splicing.
Yeah, both experimental and intentional. Hopefully it's not too much..


audiokid, post: 449985, member: 1 wrote: Was this tracked and mixed through the Soundcraft?

No, 100% itb.

audiokid, post: 449985, member: 1 wrote: I like what you are doing. I'd use some hpf on the vocals. It would help sharpen up the imaging.
Love this input, keep it coming!
So the vocals were Hpf but probably should have slid it up more, huh?

audiokid Wed, 05/03/2017 - 15:14
ChrisH, post: 449989, member: 43833 wrote: Thank you.
I get the Pink Floyd reference more than any other reference but I've never been able to pinpoint what it is people are hearing when they say that.
Sweet! Are you talking specific elements or just the mix?
Overall sound. The track itself, also has a PF tone to it.

ChrisH, post: 449989, member: 43833 wrote: Yeah, both experimental and intentional. Hopefully it's not too much..
too much imho.

ChrisH, post: 449989, member: 43833 wrote: No, 100% itb.
there ya go.

ChrisH, post: 449989, member: 43833 wrote: So the vocals were Hpf but probably should have slid it up more, huh?
The mix sounds right on but your imaging is a bit muffled so the side effect is to start thinning out. If you can tighten up the imaging, then you don't have to start thinning. I would go up anther 50hz on the vox, maybe even up 100hz more. Sometimes you can play the the 6, 12, 18, 24 db roll off too.

To sum up why I suggest this, The vox need to be tighter and I think a bit more hpf will help. Listen to The Wall, then Listen to your Vox. I don't think you need the doubling on it so much as well but its just my taste. I'm a huge Pink Floyd freak. Love Alan Parsons. I'd try and center the vox more. Add a bit of volume to it as well. Its a bit low in volume.

imho but hopefully helpful.

ChrisH, post: 449989, member: 43833 wrote: Love this input, keep it coming!
same back.

audiokid Wed, 05/03/2017 - 15:24
kmetal, post: 449988, member: 37533 wrote: This link was on the Dangerous Music site for a while. It sort of illustrates what I meant by wanting to hear this analog summed/captured.
Personally. I don't think analog summing ever improves the imaging and that is what I would like to hear more of in this track Analog summing warms things up more and smears the transients, but I've never heard analog clear a mix up, better. I thought this was all true before I got into hybrid mixing in a big way, then soon discovered how important the tracking was even more.
I know people claim hybrid mixing gives better imaging but I never heard this at all. A Bricasti however does, but it does this with space.If the imaging of the mix is bad, then all it will do is improve the acoustic space of bad imaging. Analog summing is no different imho.

I'm in the camp of, foremost, get it right first during tracking, then it will mix tight ITB. If you want to add some soft glow, OTB summing can help.

kmetal Wed, 05/03/2017 - 15:56
audiokid, post: 449992, member: 1 wrote: Personally. I don't think analog summing ever improves the imaging and that is what I would like to hear more of in this track Analog summing warms things up more and smears the transients, but I've never heard analog clear a mix up, better. I thought this was all true before I got into hybrid mixing in a big way, then soon discovered how important the tracking was even more.
I know people claim hybrid mixing gives better imaging but I never heard this at all. A Bricasti however does, but it does this with space.If the imaging of the mix is bad, then all it will do is improve the acoustic space of bad imaging. Analog summing is no different imho.

I'm in the camp of, foremost, get it right first during tracking, then it will mix tight ITB. If you want to add some soft glow, OTB summing can help.


I can't comment on the imaging since I'm on my phone. I felt the summing could allow for less masking in the frequency range. It's basically to make space without subtractive Eq.

I also think the vocals backups in particular could use some low cut reguradless.


As far as the actual production of the vocals, I think the doubling is cool if perhaps more selective with it or subtle.

These songs illustrate some ideas better than words. Not necessarily ChrisHs songs exact style, but the way there's a life, and a call/response to the vocals effects and textures. Not just swimmyness, the ways they enter and leave within the mix. This isn't just cuz audiokid (chris) brought it up, I had these thoughts when I first heard your tune.

Sorry for the long intro of the empire vid, I usually listen to the song on Amazon music, and it obviously sounds a little different on vevo. And the major labor tune is an electronic track, but the production effects / technique on the vocals I just things is quite well done.

Portugal the man- Created




Empire of the Sun - We are the People



Major Lazor / MO - Lean On

ChrisH Wed, 05/03/2017 - 18:46
Thank everyone for your feedback on the track!

audiokid, post: 449998, member: 1 wrote: I've just sold both those UA levelers. I wish you would have gotten the LA2A. Its one piece you need imho. Don't give up on those.

Oh man! Hope I can find that price when I'm ready! I appreciate you making the offer, sorry I couldn't jump on it quick enough but I'm glad you sold it.


Update:
I'm working on my mixing environment as we speak.
I never took the time to get a relatively flat response with the Event Studio EQ Software and mic that came with my Opals before I sold them for Focal CMS65's.
I ended up with two of the Studio Eq's so I kept one. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be applicable for others monitors outside of the Opals?

I added some more dense absorption in this one particular corner of the room that seems to amplify certain frequency's significantly more than the others (the room is not symmetrical) .
Right now I'm having good results tweaking the HPF and Low Shelf on the actual monitors themselves.

What do you guys believe first priority is when finding the sweetspot to mix at, the spot where your physically positioned or where the monitors are physically placed? What comes first? I can't seem to wrap my brain around that to come to a conclusion after all these years.

kmetal Wed, 05/03/2017 - 19:46
ChrisH, post: 450011, member: 43833 wrote: What do you guys believe first priority is when finding the sweetspot to mix at, the spot where your physically positioned or where the monitors are physically placed? What comes first? I can't seem to wrap my brain around that to come to a conclusion after all these years.

Speaker response will dictate their location, and the location of the speakers seats you at the point of the equilateral triangle more or less.

To be honest rods book is as close to a step by step method I've ever used/seen and even that I found a bit tough to really get a hold of.

I think it comes down to determining the distance of the speaker from the front wall. The two schools of thought are as close to the wall as possible/soffits or 2-3' away from the front wall. Either scenario calls for a dead/non reflective front wall. In the case where the speakers are placed off the wall a few feet, it's a great opportunity for bass trapping. I like the idea of bass trapping their even at the expense of efficiency of space/material, because what it does it attack the problem at the origin, and it attacks what otherwise would be out of phase low frequencies emanating from the rear of the speaker, off the wall, back thru the phantom center and to yours ears.

All this occurs before it has a chance to happen with the back wall, because the stereo listing position and speakers are almost always in the front 50% of the room.

To my mind (wherever it is) it's the low freq equivalent of removing your LCD screen from between the monitors, or going from a console/mixer to open area, between speakers and ears.

So after the speakers general starting point is determined either up close or a few feet off, the width of them will be determined by whereeveer your starting point position in the room is like 40% back or so. So if your 6feet from the front wall and the speakers are 3 feet off, they should be 3 feet apart. If they're right up on the wall, they'd be 6 feet. that's basically where I'd start testing and then move the speakers around, while testing points around the listening area, and see what combo feels best.

In my experience the basic dimension based setup seems to get pretty close and the last %15 is just moving things around.

At Triad moving the desk 1 foot forward made a significant difference. In that case the speakers are a set distance apart and from the listener sitting at the desk, so everything moved together. Although i did widen the speakers too. Normandy had soffits so it was all about aiming them and eqing tastefully. My cousins home studio he just moved them around till he liked them after the innital setup.

basically the way I see it is if the speakers are in the best place, they'll center you in the best place to hear them, then treat/eq till it's good as it gets. That's at least how I see it.

ChrisH Wed, 05/03/2017 - 20:47
ChrisH, post: 450011, member: 43833 wrote: Right now I'm having good results tweaking the HPF and Low Shelf on the actual monitors themselves.
This was cool until I tapped out for the night and listened to some records I am familiar with, now the Focals sound significantly different, they sound small now.

ChrisH Wed, 05/03/2017 - 21:13
Here's where I got it tonight.
This is with -6 db "Desktop Notch" @160hz and the HPF set at 90hz.
However as I stated with the post above, with these settings on the speakers, they sound very different, pretty small sonicly.
It also makes no sense that I'm getting anything on the measurments below 90hz, right?
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