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Twelve Samples Of Mics On Kik

Member for

13 years 10 months
OK, here goes.
You asked, I listened.

The low down (get it?):

Drum: 22" Yamaha (Cherry color, don't recall exact model).
Evans Muffler stuffed inside.
Pedal: Drum Workshop DW5000 (Like that matters).
Mixer: Yamaha 01V96
Recorder: Tascam CDRW2000 (It was either that or an Instant Replay, so I chose the removable media).

All mics recorded at same basic angle - inside, about 6 inches from beater, off to right and aimed at center (except for Beta 91, it was just lying around, lazy thing).

Mics:
EV N/D 868
AKG D112
AKG D12E
Senn MD421 - M setting
Audix D2
Shure Beta52A
EV PL-20 - Flat
EV RE27 - All settings flat
Shure Beta91


All were recorded with the 91 inside, mics on stand sent to L, 91 sent to R.
Samples were split with Sound Forge and bounced in Vegas.

No EQ, Compression, Gates, etc.
All samples are totally dry.
The samples which contain both a particular mic mixed with a 91 were time / phase corrected in Vegas prior to posting.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=769948

Enjoy.

Comments

Member for

21 years

Member Wed, 12/05/2007 - 21:17
I've tried everything, every position of the knob and moving it around just enjoyd ev nd 868 more.

By the way is it a normal dry kick drum sound? I mean those ones you listed, do you get decent sound from them after equing compressing reverbing etc? If you could just show me please how to get tight clicky thumpy sound (deathclock) I would send you a beer over the internet 8-)

Member for

21 years

Member Thu, 12/06/2007 - 05:31
Coming from the sound reinforcement world and playing in bands/doing gigs for 30+ years I'm trying to make the transition to the recording world.

To me the Beta 52 sounded more like what I would hear playing with a band. That's why I used it in my live system.

Does something about it "not" transfer over to recording?

I thought most of those mics sounded unnatural for a bass drum, made it sound boxy or even like a larger floor tom like an 18" not a kick.

To me the beta 52 sounded most like I would want my kick to sound like. I can hear the beater and feel the energy were it should be.

Am I missing something? Educate please, I'm confused.

Member for

15 years 6 months

rockstardave Thu, 12/06/2007 - 06:27
the beta is ok. i always think of it as a more "versitile" kick mic than a lot of the other popular live-use kick mics (d6, d112). because you're right, it does deliver a full sound, but i cant stand it's raw tone. with the proper EQ and Compression, you can make a Beta52 do whatever you need it to do; it just requires some sculpting.

anyone wanna trade their Beta52 for my D6???

-dave

Member for

13 years 10 months

bent Thu, 12/06/2007 - 10:22
Thanks everyone for the kind words, I'm glad you enjoyed this post.
I was a bit pressed for time which is why some of you may not hear your favorite mic in the same light.
As I state below, I did not mess too much with placement (I believe that if I did I would have ended up with a lot of different mics whose
samples all sound relatively the same to some extent, know what I mean?).
That having been said, here are a few answers to some of your questions:

Bob:
Is the PL20 just an RE20 with different cosmetics?

Near as I can tell, they are very similar in construction.
Here are their specs (I can't find originals, sorry):
RE20 - http://www.electrovoice.com/download_document.php?doc=799
PL20 - http://www.fmsystems.net/pdf/cutsheet/pl20.pdf

Gertok:
By the way is it a normal dry kick drum sound?
I mean those ones you listed, do you get decent sound from them after equing compressing reverbing etc?
If you could just show me please how to get tight clicky thumpy sound (deathclock) I would send you a beer over the internet

The samples posted are totally dry, no real attention to placement other than matching all to the same angle / height / distance from beater head,
recorded with a muffler in the drum, in a small room, with matching gain throughout.

EQ'ing them helps, as it does on all things. I admit, I'll eq the hell out of anything to make it sound the way I want.

As far as attaining a tight, clicky, thumpy Lars-ish sound -

Tight = Proper tuning and gating (short hold, fast release - there's hardly any tail on a kick like Lars').
Clicky = Mic placement / selection & 3-4Khz boost (big boost, like 3-6dB+) and a slightly boosted high shelf starting about 6K.
Another trick I'll use is some distortion on the highs - play with it, you'll feel it when you find it.
Thumpy = Mic placement / selection and low/mid scoop (150-900Hz+/-).

Patrick:
my favorites were the RE27, which has a "squeak" that's invaluable in a kick mic, and the 868, which has guts without pushing (rather than allowing) low end through it.

I totally agree with both points! I'll do some editing and throw one on a track with the other, might sound pretty cool.

Taxman:
I wouldn't run out and get an RE27 until someone A/B'ed it with an RE20.

Looking at the EV links above, based on the specs (I know, you can't go on specs alone) I think I came close using the PL20.

Big Daddy:
I thought most of those mics sounded unnatural for a bass drum, made it sound boxy or even like a larger floor tom like an 18" not a kick.
Am I missing something? Educate please, I'm confused.

I agree with your point, as well.
I honestly don't have a better answer short of what I wrote above about placement.

In all honesty, I think each of these mics will work well in the kick.
I have listened to them on my Labtec CPU speakers w/ sub, AKG44 and Sony 7506 phones, and my EV S-60s - the samples sound different on all of them.
My Labtecs, however (to steal a term from D-Dog) don't lie.
On them, they all sound like viable mics.
They all have their place on the world stage.
Some are simply better for rock or metal, some for jazz, etc...

Oh, Gertok, while I'm on the subject, ask me about fx tricks on toms.
I bet I have one that you haven't considered!
Hey, actually - that might make for a cool thread...

-Ben

Member for

19 years 9 months

Davedog Tue, 01/22/2008 - 14:05
I have also stickied this post for all to enjoy and also so Ben doesnt have to keep bumping it daily.

For those newer folks, realize that the movement of a mic inside a bassdrum of only a matter of an inch or so, can make a huge difference in the attack, the tone, and sometimes the overload of the mic itself.


Also remember that when placing a mic inside a drum, if you have help doing so, make sure they dont kick it while your head is very close in.

Ears are precious and you've only got two.


For you Cyclops out there, yes, you've got two also.

Member for

15 years 10 months

mark_van_j Thu, 01/31/2008 - 19:44
Ok, I'll try not to start with a new thread on this.. but i just "discovered" a new kick mic. (maybe it's been around for a while, but I don't hear people talking about it much)

It's the Dual Element kick mic by Audio Technica. Anyone try this one? Logic tells me it should be a sure-thing...

http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/4359efa46266c7e9/index.html

http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/c45c0dda459dad08/index.html

Member for

21 years

Member Thu, 01/31/2008 - 20:10
This is a fantastic resource.. great stuff!!

After listening to the kick samples, I'm not hearing what a lot of the posters are saying about the RE27.. sounds kind of weak to me; kind of like hitting a piece of cardboard. Here are the ones that sound good to me i.e., they capture the true kick sound without coloration; (not in order )
- Shure Beta52 )a bit colorized but nice)
- AKG D112
- D12e
- Beta91 + D112

- sorry but all the rest sound like cardboard!
Actually none of them really capture the sound of the kick the way I hear it.. but I think it has more to do with the heads, tuning, muffling etc.
( I'm used to my Yamaha RC sound which is full and deep with attack and perfect sustain etc.. )

Member for

21 years

Member Mon, 11/08/2010 - 03:51
D-112 is the clear winner for me. That's exactly the sound I like and which will set well within a drum mix and band mix. Easy winner.

RE27 - very nice. Good definition and balance, just doesn't have the smooth low end of the D112

D2 - not bad, but would only use if had to.

MD421 - yikes. Not sure what you folks like about that sound! Really strange freq balance. I own an MD421 and honestly I only use it for toms or guitar cabs. I know it's a well loved mic, but I'm just not that fond of it.

Its too bad you didn't include the Audix D6. Would like to hear it alongside the lineup. I own a D6... it's kind of a one-trick pony, but it does that trick really well ("modern" kick sound). Overall, I think the D112 is the best kick mic.

Thanks so much for this useful comparison!!! Cheers!

Member for

13 years 10 months

bent Thu, 01/31/2008 - 20:35
Yeah, I gotta admit, I play on that kick nearly every day. It takes one hell of a beating. But, 9 times out of 10, that's the kind of kick I've gotta deal with at RC when the kids show up to lay down tracks.
Actually, come to think about it, their kicks often sound worse than cardboard...
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