Vintech http://www.vintech-…

The Vintech units are very good and sound as close to the real Neve 1073 as any clone could be. I own two x81's and am very happy with them.

I just recieived am E Mail from Vintech saying they want to send a 473 to me for review.
WHOO-HOO!

Keep an eye out for a review on this unit in the next few months ...

Originally posted by Kurt Foster:
I just recieived am E Mail from Vintech saying they want to send a 473 to me for review.
WHOO-HOO!

Keep an eye out for a review on this unit in the next few months ...

Kurt...you suck! :)

Hehe...looking forward to the review...

my dealer lent me a x81 and i sent it back. it wasn't nearly as good at the brent averill stuff i already had. it just sounded flat

Originally posted by Johnson Cabasa:
my dealer lent me a x81 and i sent it back. it wasn't nearly as good at the brent averill stuff i already had. it just sounded flat

Yup. I keep hearing great things about Averill, too!

But, I also hear great things about Vintech...to each his own, I guess.

It just goes to show there is no accounting for individual taste. We are all going to like different things. The 1272 is not a pre amp but rather a line amp intended for a headphones and as summing amps in Neve consoles. They are short on gain (60dB) because they only use 2 stages of gain as opposed to 3 stages used by the real Neves and guys like Dan Kennedy. I have used the Averill 1272’s myself and never was impressed with the sound of them. I also found the build quality to be an issue.

On the other hand, I recently received a Great River MP2NV (3 gain stages) and I was floored at how great it sounds. That 3rd stage really makes the difference. Lots of headroom, full, thick, solid, transparent, warm, shimmering, ballsy, are the adjectives that come to mind.

I wonder, does the Vintech x73 have 2 or 3 gain stages? Anyone know? I checked their website and it doesn't say. I have one, but I find myself reaching for my Buzz Class A pre more often than the Vintech. I've worked on a few Neve consoles (not recently) but not enough to be able to say from memory if the Vintech's sound the same as the real deal.
Mitch

Since there never was a 1272 mic pre as a standard product made and sold by Neve, not all 1272's are built or wired up the same. Only a few of those that make and sell them on a regular bassis wire them as to how Neve would have likely done it. And of those, both gain stages that they do have are the same as in the three stage 1073 and sound the same (or damn near the same) when using 50db or less of gain. However, when using more than 50db of gain where that third stage starts to kick in, you really get a more thick and full tone. That third stage comes in mighty handy to give a wide varity of tone by adjusting the gain in relation to how the output level is adjusted. Many other mic pre's don't have this kind of output level adjustment (which is really just an attenuation control of full output)

60db is plenty of gain, and more than enough for any modern mic. Only a few of ribbon and other vintage oldies would need more than that. The refurbished 1272 module that Brenet Averill used to sell was wired for 70db of gain. The third stage in the 1073 is not so much to provide extra gain as it is to balance the gain over three stages thus giving a more smooth and linear perfomance by not driving any gain stage into it's upper and unstable limits. On most 1272's, including the BA units, the non linearities start to make themselves more noticed when using more than 55db of gain with certain mics. This more dirty and unstable sound character is yet another reason why the 1272 is popular with some and why it is hated by others.

The NV unit made by Great River is a very nice and great sounding unit. Together with the new eq, it seems to me to be just what Rupert himself might have done if he were to upgrade his very own 1073.

I've been hearing that Rupert is in the process of re-making some of his old designs. It will be interesting to see what they will be.

I wonder, does the Vintech x73 have 2 or 3 gain stages? Anyone know?

Yes, it does as well as it should considering it is being sold and directly compared to sound like a real Neve 1073.

so tell me kurt how does the gr river compare to the sebatron ....i have the seb and am liking it alot for the sound i,m trying to create but ive heard loads of good things about the mnv 2
julian

Julian,
It is apples and oranges... like asking someone to compare a Telefunkin V72 and a Neve ... I hate to say it but if I had to choose which one I could have just considering the sound, I would go with the MP2NV. Dan Kennedy and Fletcher have really cooked something great up in the MP2NV.. but you have to consider that the Great River sells for around $1400 per channel while the vmp 4000e is about $350 per .. and I can absolutely say that there are some situations where I would prefer the tube channel of a vmp over any solid state pre. In my world the best thing is to have a couple MP2NVs as well as at least one vmp 4000e.. yeah, that's it ... that's the ticket..

thanks kurt..put it this way i,m recording some acoustic guitar percussion ,vocals and bass tracks ,i like the sound of beatles revolver ,late sixties warmth and the seb really seems to give this kind of character ,i also like the idea in this instance of using one pre to give it that oneness of sound .So would it be worth trying the great river in this context .This is an albim project so dont get me wrong i,m not unhappy with the sebatron ,i,m just interested in the characteristics of the great river and want to be sure of my decision
i,ve tried ua2610 {nice but too coloured]
phoenix drs1[too modern}
broadhurst gardens....{not known in the states but will be. Clear sweet sound}
Okay i,m rambling and probably procrastinating
so tell me SHALL I TRY THE GREAT RIVER?

Julian,
That sound the Beatles got on Revolver was through Telefunkin, Neumann and AKG mics, a custom built desk that EMI made using for the most part Telefunkin pres, eq's and amps and Fairchild and Altec limiter / compressors. I was lucky enough to have the chance to see that console at a NARAS show in San Fransisco in the early 90's..

As I said in my review of the vmp 4000e, I hear that sound in the Sebatron. Sebatron insists that it is not the same type of pre but that's what I hear. It's gotta be th' tubes... :D

If that is the sound you like, then the Sebatron is absolutely the way to go for you..

AudioGaff has the 1272 issue pretty much described right on the money. At low gains there should be no audible difference between a properly wired up 1272 and a 1073 (with no EQ engaged). But at high gains they are different animals, with the 1073 being cleaner and the 1272 starting to distort. The real key to the tone on these things is the output transformer, which has a DC bias across it's primary. It can saturate on bass heavy sounds and adds some nice harmonics. This generates that 'thick' Neve sound.

In the low rent categor, I highly recommend checking out the Peavey VMP-2 (not their new TMP thingy...it's garbage). If you can find one used it should sell at around $500-600 USD, and gives you great input transformers (Reichenback RE-115s, same as API 312's), and a decent design. Use the unbalanced out for clean sounds, and the balanced out (through a steel core transformer, again similar to API) for a little iron grit. I have no idea how peavey sold this thing at the price they did. 8 tubes, high quality transformers, solid power supply. They skimped on some parts (I'm just about to put about $200 worth of upgraded caps in mine), but I think they skimped in the right spots. Peavey did a great job on this unit...maybe too good, hence the reason why it was discontinued (probably realized there wasn't enough profit margin, and not enough people willing to pay high prices for Peavey branded equipment).

Cheers,

Kris

First time on the board--good to be here. I just ordered 2 Vintech x73i's. I'll let you know what I think of them later on.

Mr. Dickface McSlapnuts, where oh where did you come up with such a witty handle?

thanks again kurt yes to my ears i,m going in the right direction ..the acoustics guitars are not as bright as if i had used a cleaner pre but thats the vibe i think i want .if you,re interested i,m using a modded u87 some oktava s,d,s and everything,s going through a cranesong hedd which is a great great sounding converter.
julian

Got an X73i coming in any day now. Will post a review once I've taken it for a spin.

Best,
Da Hummer

Originally posted by Hummer:
Got an X73i coming in any day now. Will post a review once I've taken it for a spin.

Best,
Da Hummer

Hummer,
Thanks, however we don't have "reviews" posted on the BB, we place them in ROs E Mag which is a lot more accessable to the whole internet.. (html) When you finish your review, please send it to me and I will put it in the E Mag... Kurt

Finally had the opportunity to run my two new X73i's through the paces last evening after a session. Tried a dozen different mics running the the gamut from a Lawson L47MP, Neumann M-149, Soundelux ifet7, Studio Projects T-3 & C-3, Rode NTK, Groove tubes GT-66, Blue Baby bottle, Royer R-122. This is just a preliminary evaluation, but it seems I'm able to get a great sound from whatever mic I choose. Even the R-122, which requires a lot of gain, sounded great without the least bit of induced noise.
Of course, each mic has it's own characteristic sound. This pre really reveals all those suttle differences and nuances nicely.
Other pre/compressor combos I've been using are the UA 2-610/1176LN reissues, Avalon AD2022/Summit Audio TLA-50, Joe Meek VC-1 Presonus M-80/ACP-88. I'm not a golden eared engineer, but these X73i's have my vote.
I also just got a pair of Crane Song Trakkers (which I was running in conjunction with the X-73i's). It's going to take some time for me to master the trakkers but they are quite impressive also. Something to keep in mind when you are racking these pieces; Had to put some distance (3 or 4 inches) between the Trakkers and the X73i's because of hum induced in the X73i by the Trakker's toridal transformer. I don't know if this is a Trakker or a X73'i dilemma (a quick look 'under the hood' of the X73i revealed that the Trakkers and X73i's transformers reside in the same location, which ends up right on top of each other in the left rear of the case). It goes without saying that these won't be next to one another when I install them in the rack.
Keeping in mind I was only using voice and flute as my sound source, it remains to be seen what niche the X73i's might fill or if they will end up as my go-to mic pres. I haven't tried the instrument input yet, but judging by what I've heard so far I think it's safe to say the best is yet to come.

These things are so subjective, but I prefer the 1272 over a 1073. I don't care if the 1272 was the originally a talkback amp or a part of a Mr. Microphone. It's huge sounding and can be used in many situations with great success. I got the Vintech version because I thought it is a little more open sounding than the BA.