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Windows 10 update issues

Hi all...
Since this most recent W10 update ("Fall Creator's Update) my machine is really unstable with DAW production.
1. Is there a way I can roll back this latest update? OR
2. Is there a way I can just dump W10 ( which honestly I've never really cared for) and roll back to my previous W8.1 OS?
There just seems to be such a huge amount of Bloat with W10; features I'll never use, but that unfortunately still take up valuable resources...
I've done all the tweaking for audio that has been available, and it has helped, but it just seems as though W10 has never really efficiently supported audio production, at least not in my experience.
3. If I do roll back to 8, will I LOSE anything? Will I have to reconfigure drivers for things like interfaces, VSTs/VSTi's, software I've downloaded and installed since I upgraded?
OR
Is there anything I can do to get W10 to run optimally with audio production as the focus?
Honestly, it scares me to think about rolling back, and messing with an operating system...
Can anyone offer advice, or point me in the direction of a reliable and trustworthy tune up/ registry cleaning service? Because those tools scare me as well. Im always nervous with those programs, wondering if they are inserting malware...
Any help would be appreciated here, guys.
Thank you. ;)
-donny

Comments

DonnyThompson Wed, 12/06/2017 - 01:19
audiokid, post: 454327, member: 1 wrote: After the last forced windows 10 update 4 days ago, my laptop is totally ^#$%ed up. It’s been excellent up until now.
Whomever was responsible for releasing the latest Window 10 update should be fired.

What a mess.
Ya know guys, I'm giving serious consideration to biting the reformat bullet and rolling back. W10 has become a real mess on my PC, as Chris has experienced - I never had these kinds of problems when I was using W7; I always found it to be a rock solid OS.
Even before this last upgrade, W10 was still pissing me off with its bloat and background processes denting my CPU and memory.

DonnyThompson Wed, 12/06/2017 - 02:13
I'm also wondering if perhaps reformatting the drive might be a good idea, regardless of which version of Windows I decide to use..
I read somewhere, a few years ago, that those who work in multimedia should actually consider reformatting their internal system drive every few years or so...I don't know if this is true, or if it was true at one time but no longer matters...
No doubt, it seems to be a daunting task, considering that 90% of my software came from digital purchase/download, so I don't have many install discs anymore.
I did run a program yesterday called " iobit", which allowed me to fully uninstall certain programs; this program is better than the standard Windows uninstall command, because often, Windows doesn't get rid of a lot of small pieces to the program that you are uninstalling, and it leaves traces of the program in the registry. Iobit uninstalls the program and also gets rid of any pieces that still remain in the registry. It's not a registry cleaning program - I won't use those because they're unreliable and they can remove necessary keys that your OS requires - Iobit only removed parts of the program you are uninstalling from the registry, it's very specific.
I've also managed to disable certain RAM eating acceleration settings; graphics one of the main offenders. I don't need accelerated graphics settings for audio production.
I'm still working on this...I want to exhaust all possible options before I decide on a full reformat and roll back to W7 or 8. The computer came with 8.1 ....I wish I could just click on a command and have it roll back without having to reformat - but then again, maybe reformatting isn't such a bad idea?
I dunno...

DonnyThompson Wed, 12/06/2017 - 02:28
audiokid
Chris... If you're still having problems with your laptop after this recent update, did you notice, in Marco's first reply to me above, he did provide a link to rolling back this latest update. I just don't know whether you noticed it or not. I'm gonna work some more on my PC today, because truthfully, I've been having issues with W10 before this update, (it's just always seemed so bloated to me, even long before this recent cluster f***k of an update); and I want to try everything I can to resolve these problems before I pull the trigger on a complete reformat and roll-back to 7...but I am seriously considering the recent major update roll-back first.
Also, the link he provided to the Focusrite sponsored W10 tune up for audio did help me a little. Not much, as most of the things they mentioned to do I had already done...but there were a couple settings changes I made that seemed to help a bit.
I forgot to thank Marco for posting these links... (pcrecord ) Thanks Mon Ami!!! :)

DonnyThompson Wed, 12/06/2017 - 03:00
Makzimia, post: 454342, member: 48344 wrote: The sheer arrogance of both main OS systems when it comes to ignoring roll out issues for pro users is phenomenal. Boy does that old Roland VS keep looking ever so much better LOL.
I was told not too long ago, by a very knowledgeable computer guy who specializes in building turn key audio systems, that Windows has never really placed the same importance on audio production as it always has with graphics and photo programs. If this is true - and I'm starting to believe that it may be - then I think MS is dropping the ball big time. Computer based recording has turned into a HUGE market, for both beginners and professionals alike. And with that level of hyper interest has come so many other related software companies to support it...from major DAW makers to all the software connected to it: VST's, VSTi's, Utilities for Sonic measurement, utilities for acoustical measurement, etc...
For MS to lower their priority with audio in conjunction with increased graphic production seems like a major faux pas ...at least to me it does, anyway.
I haven't been a Mac guy for over 20 years now, but I've experienced the way that Mac prioritizes audio in their various OS versions over the years. I don't know if they still do, but there's no doubt that at one time, their focus definitely included audio production.
I switched from Mac to PC for a couple reasons; the first was that I felt like I could get more "bang for my buck" with a PC...and the second reason was because at that time, Pro Tools hadn't yet gotten audio and midi to integrate very well, whereas Cakewalk/Sonar had been very innovative in that regard.
But over time, MS seems to have put their focus on the " home experience", and has forgotten that professionals use their systems too....and a major part of what they offer as part of their OS seems to conflict with pro multimedia production. I have no doubt that they could find a way to code their OS to make it more supportive and efficient for audio...but they just don't seem to get it.
My favorite Windows OS's have been XP, and W7. These versions were rock solid stable, always, and gave the user so much more control of what was on their systems. W10 has made it nearly impossible for users to tweak their systems.
Here endeth my rant. Sorry. I'm venting. ;)

DonnyThompson Wed, 12/06/2017 - 04:32
pcrecord, post: 454349, member: 46460 wrote: Ma favorite OS was Win 2000 which was an enterprise version.
Which leads me to ask, what version of win10 do you have Donny ?
It's not the Pro version. I know that. When I did the free upgrade from W8 two years ago, I'm pretty sure those free versions were the Home Edition, no?

DonnyThompson Wed, 12/06/2017 - 04:59
audiokid, post: 454327, member: 1 wrote: After the last forced windows 10 update 4 days ago, my laptop is totally ^#$%ed up. It’s been excellent up until now.
Whomever was responsible for releasing the latest Window 10 update should be fired.

What a mess.
Is this your production PC, Chris?
What version of W10 is it running?

pcrecord Wed, 12/06/2017 - 05:16
DonnyThompson, post: 454351, member: 46114 wrote: It's not the Pro version. I know that. When I did the free upgrade from W8 two years ago, I'm pretty sure those free versions were the Home Edition, no?
If you had win8 pro, you would get win10 pro.. I think that's how the updates worked..
I have the windows 10 enterprise in my studio and the home premium on my laptop.
They don't get the same updates and the enterprise version receive less of them.

DonnyThompson Wed, 12/06/2017 - 06:18
I've been researching the difference between Home and Pro... There are things there that I am quite unfamiliar with, such as remote control, group access, bitlock... and from what I've read this far, it's no more user-tweakable than the Home Edition is. So, I'm not exactly sure how upgrading to the pro version will actually help me; according to SOS, W10 Pro has the exact same features as W10 Home, but with additional features that I'm not sure I would use ...again, my ultimate wish is for the OS to have less of the stuff that I don't need, not more of it. ;)

pcrecord Wed, 12/06/2017 - 06:38
It's not a question of features but more for whom and how it was built. Work oriented OS has always been better for audio productions.
The updates and the ressources allocations aren't the same. They seem less game oriented too...
If I remember, there's no way to deactivate windows defender on the Home version, but it can be done on the pro and enterprise versions (not saying it's easy but I've done it).
Might be the same thing with cortana.
Also by default there is less stuff going on in the task manager.
I'm sure a hacker could put them side by side and replicate behaviours, but we both are musicians aren't we.. we just want to push record and let it do its magic.. ;)
If you have spare time, you could do a trial of the pro version and test it yourself.

audiokid Wed, 12/06/2017 - 07:31
DonnyThompson, post: 454352, member: 46114 wrote: Is this your production PC, Chris?
What version of W10 is it running?
No, my audio PC’s are both W7 but my laptop has been my mobile unit and for working online.

Right now I cant acess the web on my laptop. I’ve tried everything but it will not go online. Both wifi and lan don’t work. Says my network adapter isn’t turned on.

DonnyThompson Wed, 12/06/2017 - 07:40
pcrecord, post: 454357, member: 46460 wrote: It's not a question of features but more for whom and how it was built. Work oriented OS has always been better for audio productions.
The updates and the ressources allocations aren't the same. They seem less game oriented too...
If I remember, there's no way to deactivate windows defender on the Home version, but it can be done on the pro and enterprise versions (not saying it's easy but I've done it).
Might be the same thing with cortana.
Also by default there is less stuff going on in the task manager.
I'm sure a hacker could put them side by side and replicate behaviours, but we both are musicians aren't we.. we just want to push record and let it do its magic.. ;)
If you have spare time, you could do a trial of the pro version and test it yourself.
FWIW, I am able to disable Defender in 10 Home.
And yes pal, you're right, we do just want to be able to hit "record"and go.
With today's technology, I find it hard to believe that this isn't always possible.
You know what I'd love to see? A "Windows Audio Production" OS. Think about just how many people would jump on that...a lean, mean audio machine. No games. No Cortana, No useless background processes running that don't do anything other than get in our way. No 3D Graphics or Graphics acceleration BS...
"Donny...Donny...it's time to wake up now and go to school!"
Sigh.
So, if you were making the change, would you go W10 Pro or W10 Enterprise?

Tony Carpenter Wed, 12/06/2017 - 07:59
Just going to put the boot in again on this, despite the fact it's WAY over priced... my Mac Pro is a beast, and part of the reason I have it... I came from OS2 and Linux (way back at beta). OSX is basically a skin on Linux/UNIX. The core of the system is, or at least was, much leaner than Windows along the way. The one remaining redeemable factor over windows that isn't being matched ever, is CORE AUDIO :). Much better and more flexible and simply a real part of a studio audio machine. If Mickeysoft ever equals that feat, I am going to be happy. With my years of experience with computers dating back to 1984, I am not overly hopeful of that :).

I've managed to get my self built PCs to run Cakewalk in the past very stable, but, PC stable =/= Mac stable, and that remains my personal finding. Only tweak my Mac ever needs is leaving bluetooth and wifi off. I really want to use a PC, but, until I am forced to due to lack of money.... I just... can't.

Sorry to derail that whole Windows screwed me again thing.. /end rant ;0).

Tony

pcrecord Wed, 12/06/2017 - 08:08
audiokid, post: 454362, member: 1 wrote: I think my problem is the last update effected drivers and I can roll back either. And I can’t get online as well. My laptop is 6 years old and it appears windows 10 may have not respected drives that worked just fine.

It’s been stellar up until this last update. I’m on windows 20 pro btw.
:eek:

Not able to go online after an update can be because of netsh modifications or the firewall being activated.
If it's not the firewall, try these netsh reset commands :
https://www.geeksinphoenix.com/blog/post/2015/06/16/how-to-reset-your-network-adapter-in-windows-10.aspx

Other than that you can download the appropriate network drivers and install them manually.

DonnyThompson Wed, 12/06/2017 - 12:49
W
audiokid, post: 454362, member: 1 wrote: I think my problem is the last update effected drivers and I can roll back either. And I can’t get online as well. My laptop is 6 years old and it appears windows 10 may have not respected drives that worked just fine.

It’s been stellar up until this last update. I’m on windows 20 pro btw.
Windows 20 pro? Lol. Musta missed that particular update. ;)
But you've also mentioned that you're still using 7 for your production machines though, no?
I'm sure W10 would be fine if I was using it for day to day computing ...email, internet, etc. But it's been a bear - not in a good way - on my production machine.

pcrecord Wed, 12/06/2017 - 12:59
DonnyThompson, post: 454371, member: 46114 wrote: I'm sure W10 would be fine if I was using it for day to day computing ...email, internet, etc. But it's been a bear - not in a good way - on my production machine.
Before condamming win10 too much.. I should say mine is pretty stable to this day... Ain't nothing close to perfect but.. I can record and mix fine... ;)

audiokid Wed, 12/06/2017 - 13:11
DonnyThompson, post: 454371, member: 46114 wrote:

Windows 20 pro? Lol. Musta missed that particular update. ;)
But you've also mentioned that you're still using 7 for your production machines though, no?
I'm sure W10 would be fine if I was using it for day to day computing ...email, internet, etc. But it's been a bear - not in a good way - on my production machine.

Lol! I can’t see have of what I’m writing on my phone.


pcrecord, post: 454372, member: 46460 wrote: Before condamming win10 too much.. I should say mine is pretty stable to this day... Ain't nothing close to perfect but.. I can record and mix fine... ;)
Mine was too. I’m sure it’s becsuse my laptop is older.
It’s been flawless up to now.

DonnyThompson Thu, 12/07/2017 - 01:42
pcrecord, post: 454372, member: 46460 wrote: Before condamming win10 too much.. I should say mine is pretty stable to this day... Ain't nothing close to perfect but.. I can record and mix fine... ;)
Well I suppose we only comment based on our own experiences. Mine was "okay"... up until the recent update, then everything headed south of the suck line.
I wouldn't be as negative towards Windows 10 if it wasn't being such a PITA towards me. ;)

oynaz Fri, 12/08/2017 - 01:29
Windows 10 is not quite as bad as it's reputation. The bloatware is annoying, but apart from that, it is rather solid (unless you are one of the unlucky few, of course)

So, in reply to OP, try the following:

1. Run chkdsk on all drives
2. Run sfc /scannow
3. Update all drivers
4. Run tronscript to remove bloatware: https://www.reddit.com/r/TronScript/
5. Disable or uninstall any software which can send disrupting notifications.
6. Be careful with optimization guides. They tend to have rather questionable advice, often telling you to mess with the kind of system resources which can spell trouble on updates.

pcrecord Fri, 12/08/2017 - 02:58
oynaz, post: 454390, member: 46189 wrote: Windows 10 is not quite as bad as it's reputation. The bloatware is annoying, but apart from that, it is rather solid (unless you are one of the unlucky few, of course)

So, in reply to OP, try the following:

1. Run chkdsk on all drives
2. Run sfc /scannow
3. Update all drivers
4. Run tronscript to remove bloatware: https://www.reddit.com/r/TronScript/
5. Disable or uninstall any software which can send disrupting notifications.
6. Be careful with optimization guides. They tend to have rather questionable advice, often telling you to mess with the kind of system resources which can spell trouble on updates.

1 - a check with Cristal disk info is also a good thing to do once in a while to identify drives before they fail : https://crystalmark.info/software/CrystalDiskInfo/index-e.html
2 - Restore system files (usually when having boot fail or other major problems..) ; not a bad idea
3- A must !
4- Didn't know this one, I usually use malwarebytes
5- Antivirus are the most ressources hungry but many others too...
6- The one I recommended was from focusrite and audient makes one too, but for my computer what made a big difference was a bios adjustment (disabling the hpet made a big difference on latency)

Tony Carpenter Sat, 12/09/2017 - 05:33
For future reference, do not run windows chkdsk if you have a raid configuration. If that is the case, use the I/O controller software ie: Intel has their own. In my experience so far ever since I just rely on Microsoft defender, I simply, as I have ALWAYS done, do not allow any auto updates of my system or running schedule during my actual use :).

DonnyThompson Sat, 12/09/2017 - 07:20
Thanks, Tony!!
I'm not using a Raid configuration; just one internal HD drive, with a few different external USB drives for archiving and safety backup.
I've now adjusted my PC to prompt me for Windows updates, instead of automatic installs, and I always disconnect from the internet (and shut off Windows Defender) when I'm working in my DAW.
I have no other Virus Protection software on my system. :)

pcrecord Sun, 12/10/2017 - 10:20
DonnyThompson, post: 454410, member: 46114 wrote: I’m aware. I mentioned that I’m not using Raid.
I just wanted to say it because some Bios let's you setup the SATA port as raid evendo your don't have to set it up as such.
So many people look at the bios adjustment and think they run a raid which isn't the case unless you use the raid management software ;)

audiokid Mon, 12/11/2017 - 08:40
Generally speaking,

Wisdom tells me that over my 30 years of digital audio, using old Pro Tools to current Samplitude, Mac or PC bases OS DAW systems .... to limit software and computing issues it’s my opinion to keep DAW software versions very close to the OS time of release, and this includes all third party plugins.

I find and have read many times most DAW systems run best when we don’t update the OS while using older or newer versions of plugins or DAW platforms.

Reality is: There are always bugs and conflicts and sweet points where everything seems to run pretty good.
If we could all just leave things at that point I think we would all have less trouble.
To avoid digital nightmare I use very few third party plugins and go to great lengths to not being tempted bloating my clean running stock DAW. Thus why I started using Samplitude.

My DAW system has pretty much all I need and for the stuff it doesn’t, like VSTi, I look to external hardware .

Finally,
After using both Mac and PC , I much prefer PC and the next windows upgrade I think I will make will be Enterprise because I believe that version has the least amount of bloat of all OS out there. Being able to turn off as much as I can seems to make the most sense to me.
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