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Have 29 sec audio need to know what is being said. Total novice. Use the Donnin and it makes it understandable. But not by everyone. Any takers? Email-stuckwithcheater@gmail.com

dvdhawk Wed, 03/08/2017 - 22:17

@Bobby Ryderhi, I would suggest you take a few minutes and research whether or not recording a conversation, without the consent all of the people involved, violates the law in your area. The specifics of what kind of recording is allowed under the law, varies widely from one jurisdiction to the next - ranging from 'perfectly legal' to being a felony offense.

I'd hate to see you make a bad situation worse.

pcrecord Thu, 03/09/2017 - 05:30

Bobby Ryderhi, post: 448407, member: 50441 wrote: Have 29 sec audio need to know what is being said. Total novice. Use the Donnin and it makes it understandable. But not by everyone. Any takers? Email-stuckwithcheater@gmail.com

First, this should be on it's own thread.
Second, dvdhawk is right, spying isn't legaly allowed in many country. Check that first.
Third, 90% of the restauration jobs I get are total waist of time and money.
If the ambiant noises are louder than the source you want to Isolate, nothing can be done.
They do miracles in movies, but you surely know movies aren't telling the truth all the time.. ;)

audiokid Thu, 03/09/2017 - 08:17

pcrecord, post: 448428, member: 46460 wrote: First, this should be on it's own thread.

good call, did that now!

pcrecord, post: 448428, member: 46460 wrote: If the ambient noises are louder than the source you want to Isolate, nothing can be done.

Owning particular forensic software enables you to do what others think is impossible.
Examples: seamless edits , forensic editing, audio isolation enhancements and extractions.

pcrecord, post: 448428, member: 46460 wrote: Third, 90% of the restoration jobs I get are total waist of time and money.

I've done restorations for people that took min's to do, that paid me well. I spent an entire year just doing restorations. (Mind you, there are much better paying jobs but it put some extra cash in my pocket) I had jobs coming in from all over the planet. The beauty of websites and programs like Sequoia keep getting better.

spectralayers would likely get this done in no time flat.

dvdhawk Thu, 03/09/2017 - 19:42

He left an email address, there's nothing stopping from contacting him.

I'm just giving my non-professional, unsolicited advice. The jurisdiction on this sort of thing is sticky. Depending on where this recording took place (presumably from the context clues, without consent of the person(s) being recorded), it can be a felony AND can also set them up for a civil suit for damages. Should anyone be charged, a felony committed by, or aided by, someone across international borders can be extremely sticky too for both parties, especially when you apply for, or renew your passport / voting / gun permit, and so on.

Again, depending upon local laws, if he even mentions to anybody he has a surreptitious recording, he's asking for legal troubles.

I do A/V work for the local district attorney once in a while. In Pennsylvania, there is never audio with that convenience store robbery footage you see on the news - because it's illegal to record any conversations (even between criminals) if they can reasonably expect their conversation to be private. In PA, it's illegal to record any conversation without consent from all parties, unless it's a public meeting situation where you would not expect privacy ( a city council meeting, for example ). Recording in a PA courtroom will probably get you thrown in the slammer. PA is one of 11 US states that requires "2-party consent" to record a phone call, or conversation." US Federal law and most state statutes also make disclosing the contents of an illegally intercepted telephone call illegal. Every country and every state has its own specific laws on the subject.

You're wading into murky waters, (and some of you just for a cheap thrill at the other guy's expense) that's all I'm saying. Do as you like.

Kurt Foster Thu, 03/09/2017 - 19:45

dvdhawk, post: 448483, member: 36047 wrote: He left an email address, there's nothing stopping from contacting him.

I'm just giving my non-professional, unsolicited advice. The jurisdiction on this sort of thing is sticky. Depending on where this recording took place (presumably from the context clues, without consent of the person(s) being recorded), it can be a felony AND can also set them up for a civil suit for damages. Should anyone be charged, a felony committed by, or aided by, someone across international borders can be extremely sticky too for both parties, especially when you apply for, or renew your passport / voting / gun permit, and so on.

Again, depending upon local laws, if he even mentions to anybody he has a surreptitious recording, he's asking for legal troubles.

I do A/V work for the local district attorney once in a while. In Pennsylvania, there is never audio with that convenience store robbery footage you see on the news - because it's illegal to record any conversations (even between criminals) if they can reasonably expect their conversation to be private. In PA, it's illegal to record any conversation without consent from all parties, unless it's a public meeting situation where you would not expect privacy ( a city council meeting, for example ). Recording in a PA courtroom will probably get you thrown in the slammer. PA is one of 11 US states that requires "2-party consent" to record a phone call, or conversation." US Federal law and most state statutes also make disclosing the contents of an illegally intercepted telephone call illegal. Every country and every state has its own specific laws on the subject.

You're wading into murky waters, (and some of you just for a cheap thrill at the other guy's expense) that's all I'm saying. Do as you like.

unless you are in the CIA or the NSA. they've been recording everything from everybody for years. above the law.

pcrecord Fri, 03/10/2017 - 05:47

audiokid, post: 448444, member: 1 wrote: Owning particular forensic software enables you to do what others think is impossible.

I had one guy who recorded his phone with a dictaphone close to it. across the distortions and noises I was able to do something acceptable. But I was Lucky.

I've done everything I could on the last project , (using izotope RX) but sometimes, the wanted audio is just not there.
Some people think that starting the recorder of an iPhone in your Pocket will grab whispering in the next room even if kids play loud close to you...
No that can't be done...

paulears Fri, 03/10/2017 - 06:05

So the Land of the Free, isn't so free then? I noticed lots of mute video, and often wondered why there was no sound.

I must admit I just assumed we were doing a restoration job on something with voices but just hidden.

Wasn't our MI5/6 and your CIA recording conversations through Samsung internet TVs?

dvdhawk Fri, 03/10/2017 - 08:25

pcrecord, post: 448488, member: 46460 wrote: I had one guy who recorded his phone with a dictaphone close to it. across the distortions and noises I was able to do something acceptable. But I was Lucky.

I don't doubt for a moment you did a good job with it, Marco. And what follows isn't meant to question that.

Unless they are very clear, recorded voices without any context are a bit like an audio Rorschach test. If the voice is garbled and there's much distortion and noise, the listener's brain runs it through their own personal filter, and fills in the gaps to hear whatever they wanted to hear- whether it's a good thing, or what they feared most. Not unlike those people who used to play LPs in reverse pointing out what they heard as obvious satanic messages (in songs that didn't deliberately use backward masking), or people who claim they've recorded ghosts talking. Garbled voices plus white noise literally leaves a lot to the listener's imagination and the human brain is eager to oblige. (is the noise of the water maybe half the reason why people think they sing great in the shower? the other half being reverb) And think about all the famously mis-heard pop songs that were impeccably recorded.

paulears, post: 448491, member: 47782 wrote: So the Land of the Free, isn't so free then? I noticed lots of mute video, and often wondered why there was no sound.

Well @paulears, as a private citizen, you are either A) free to have a private conversation and assume you're not being recorded, unless you have given your permission, or B) free to record anyone, anytime, discussing anything and electronically eavesdrop in hopes of, proving illegal activity, hearing something damning or salacious, or something of strategic value to you (like corporate espionage). You can't have it both ways. We both live in free(ish) societies, but we don't have carte blanche when it comes to causing harm to others.

Barring a legally obtained warrant, my state has chosen (A) and made violating that law a pretty serious offense. Some states only require consent from one party under specific circumstances, and some places have chosen to let you record anything you like within the confines of your own home. I would imagine there are places in the world where it's (B) and absolutely anything goes. My point to the OP was (and is), he needs to know the law in his specific locality before he tries to leverage any information derived from the recording, or screams in court, "Ah Ha!, but I have a recording of you saying........". It's possible he'd be facing criminal charges, even if the (inadmissible) recording proved he was in the right.

How about the UK? Can you leave a recording device somewhere, or hide a mic somewhere in Lowestoft, for the purpose of recording private conversations without the consent of the people being recorded?

And I'm sure the most elite spy agencies have capabilities far beyond anything even heard about yet, that would give some of us Orwellian nightmares.

All I know for sure is, The Girl with Colitis Goes By, should be the name of some clandestine operation.

audiokid Fri, 03/10/2017 - 09:07

Lawyers are all about creating drama, creating fear, instigating deceit and stirring up trouble. Which is why they make great politicians.
The more you are around lawyers, the more warning to be in fear (the talent of turning everyone against each other). (n)

Its good to be aware but it also costs a lot of money to get them to do something. So, even though they can and will sue us for pretty much anything, they also won't waste their time unless they make money or it improves their career in some way.

To all the people wanting to learn how to hear between the layers of sound... Spectralayers is a way to isolate audio right down to a pin dropping. This is also easier said than done, subjective to other factors.
As an example in this video, they are removing the siren. Through copy and paste editing, you can either eliminate or extract anything that can be turned into a colour. I use Sequoia to do that.

[GALLERY=media, 452]Spectralayers, removing a siren by audiokid posted Mar 10, 2017 at 9:36 AM[/GALLERY]

To expand on where all this technology is going, I post this video whenever we are talking about this sort of stuff (forensic audio).
If you haven't watched this video, do so! Particularly forward to the timeline about how we can video of a bag on the sidewalk and from amplifying the vibrations. extract what people are saying around it. Whats more astonishing is how exact the pitch and tone is. Thus, this is where spectralayers are going in our audio world[GALLERY=media, 6]Michael Rubinstein: See invisible motion, hear silent sounds. Cool? Creepy? We can't decide - YouTube by audiokid posted Mar 19, 2015 at 9:05 PM[/GALLERY].

dvdhawk Fri, 03/10/2017 - 13:19

Personally, I'm glad to live in a state where my individual right to privacy outweighs someone else's desire to eavesdrop and spy. The fact that someone could obtain a [long boring] recording of my conversations from outside earshot with high-tech gadgetry doesn't mean they're allowed to. That would be like saying it's ok for peeping Toms, who don't even have to climb a tree or go door to door with a ladder anymore, to just fly a drone outside the window instead, since the technology exists.

Lawyers don't make the laws, although you're absolutely right, many members of the legislative branch are, or were, lawyers themselves. Many of the lawmakers will admit the laws have not kept up with the technology, especially in a world where the vast majority of people have a device in their pocket that can record audio/video at a moment's notice. In some jurisdictions, even though the police have dash-cams, and may have body cameras too, it is illegal to record them performing their public duties. Meanwhile, last week there was viral video of a guy proving he wasn't drunk by juggling during his traffic stop, in which he asks the policeman to record it for him with his own phone. The point being, people need to educate themselves on what IS permitted and use it responsibly.

There's no doubt there are sleazy lawyers like you've described, and I'd bet most of those lawyers wish they could use DIY recordings rather than hire licensed investigators - who should know the laws in their area as well as anyone in law enforcement.

A good lawyer is more about using the law to protect his/her client, and in some cases that means advising their client against doing anything that will have negative legal ramifications. A good lawyer will use his experience to help his/her client anticipate and avoid pitfalls the client may not even be aware of. For example, if during the course of divorce proceedings an illegal recording came to light, the excrement could really collide with the air circulation appliance in some states. If an act is deemed a felony, it's a felony. Then it's a separate criminal matter for the criminal courts to handle, and they would be tried at the discretion of district attorney, not anyone's personal lawyer. So no good lawyer is going to let his client go blindly into any court proceedings (private divorce negotiations / divorce court / civil court / or criminal court) waving around a felonious recording he made - whether or not he knew it was illegal when he did it makes no difference - no matter what's on the recording (unless maybe it cleared them of some other far worse crime), they'd be foolish to bring it up.

And on the money grubbing front, for instance we have a jilted partner, recorded against their will, in a contentious divorce, who would have plenty of reason to file a civil suit - from which the lawyer(s) will cash in. Maybe you don't know anybody who has been through a really ugly divorce. In some circumstances, one partner could lose a lot of money if infidelity is proven by the recording, only to get awarded a big settlement check in a separate civil suit for the privacy violation. So, they cheated and still got rewarded. Whatever you hear on the recording better be worth the risk. If the recording is inadmissible, then they might cash in on both counts, adding insult to injury again. IF there are children involved, how do you think a possible felony charge, and potentially crushing financial judgement in the civil suit will affect determining child custody? Which, since we didn't have much to go on, I believe I summed up in my first post with, "I'd hate to see you make a bad situation worse."

The OP was understandably sketchy on the details, and I admit I may be reading too much into his scenario by misinterpreting the not so subtle 'stuckwithacheater' email address. My point, again, is that the law is very specific from one place to the next. It's very clear about some things, very fuzzy on others, and can sometimes seem to outright contradict itself. All I've said is pump the brakes a little bit, do a little research, and make sure you're not asking for trouble. Get legal counsel, and/or hire a PI if necessary.

And since I'm not a lawyer, I'm not even necessarily saying, 'don't get the recording cleaned up'. But I would say, don't volunteer the fact you recorded it, imply you overheard it with your own ears if that's at all possible, keep the information to yourself, discretion will pay off, and throwing it out to a public forum that's in any way traceable to you is a terrible idea on all fronts.

That's it, I've made my point. I'm tagging out of this one. Carry on.

audiokid Fri, 03/10/2017 - 13:49

I'm thinking to make this its own thread. What would you like it called?
In Pennsylvania>

  • You have the right to videotape and audiotape police officers performing official duties in public. It is not a violation of the Pennsylvania Wiretap Law to do so. That means you can record an officer during a traffic stop, during an interrogation, or while he or she is making an arrest.
  • You can record people protesting or giving speeches in public.
class="xf-ul"> Maybe the OP has a recording during some Trump rally, example... Democrats smashing business window in the name of peace lol... the evidence of who's behind it all is blurred from glass breaking.
See the above exceptions

This last post is in fun of course and indeed, good advice as well, Dave.

paulears Sat, 03/11/2017 - 04:00

I don't actually know the legal position here, but we seem to have more of a hangup with visual images? We have the cycle brigade recording everything when they have their everyday disputes with the public, and these are always on Facebook/youtube with no apparent problems. We have new where people record dodgy dealings with public officials and these make the news regularly - so I don't think we have the same thing as in the US - we do have the usual libel laws of course, but cleaning up some covertly captured audio wouldn't seem here to be an issue. If somebody contacted me and asked me to do this kind of job, I would have said I'd give it a go, and to be honest, I think I still would. My attitude being that cleaning it up couldn't possibly be criminal, but maybe doing something with it would? I really don't know.

Interesting topic.

Plus - I downloaded the siren example from that clip, and tried it in abobe audition CC, and have to say was pretty impressed by how well it did the same kind of thing - total or partial removal. Works differently though, you draw the siren line, then just reduce it in level - you don't have to do the layer polarity reversal. Must admit that though I knew the technique exists, I'd never used it.

The idea of expanding movement in the other link is pretty amazing!

DonnyThompson Sat, 03/11/2017 - 05:38

audiokid, post: 448495, member: 1 wrote: Maybe the OP has a recording during some Trump rally, example... Democrats smashing business window in the name of peace lol... the evidence of who's behind it all is blurred from glass breaking.

Sigh - I think the topic of this thread has drifted a bit, which is bound to happen from time to time... I just don't think that anything good will come from it drifting towards politics or government agendas.
I think most of us here on RO are already aware of each other's political leanings, so having another thread where political opinions are hinted at... will only result in causing divisiveness among the members here.

audiokid, post: 448495, member: 1 wrote: I'm thinking to make this its own thread. What would you like it called?
In Pennsylvania>

Personally, I think we should stick to topics that are geared towards audio, music, art, ( and laughter!!) ... and leave the politics and talk of government for another forum...
Or... in some cases, certain family things should be allowed to be discussed in the lounge ( son or daughter winning sports, wife auditioning for a play, etc.,)
or...
The fact that our brother Dave ( @dvdhawk ) is about to become a grandpa ( again!) any day now!!
(y):love:

But this is all just my opinion. In the end, this is Chris's house, he's provided a great forum here, with the members being incredibly intelligent and experienced in all kinds of audio, electronics. computers, and music related topics, and we're all guests here, so we need to respect his decisions - and if he wants to allow threads that spark political debate, then that's his call and his privilege.

But as one member, I won't be participating in any of those threads.
I guess I'm suggesting that I'd sure like to not see us drifting back to the heated debating that occurred here during the election last Fall.

IMO of course.

audiokid Sat, 03/11/2017 - 08:00

Well, I think its pretty obvious who is talking about recording and who who pushing off into drama where lawyers and lawsuits are. I appreciate how Dave is concerned but we aren't police or government agents here. The OP was being discrete and asked a simple question. My reason on this thread IS to help a guy with vocal isolation support. Not freak him out or turn this thread into drama where good goes sideways and into the drama deletion pool.

Remy used to do this with almost every thread. (just saying) .

Even though I push back with forensic audio, with a bit of very related current humor to make fun and counter the paranoid direction, we are yet back into drama world. We have choices and my choice is always less drama and focus towards audio, gear and how that relates to the success of my recording world. No drama. I hate drama which is where I jump or redirect back to reality.

There are always people on forums that migrate towards the assuming. To clarify, last year I posted a very interesting thread about the corruption of media ( leading up to how it is effecting our recording industry) But within second the focus was derailed just like this thread into drama. I had fun with you all back then , just as I am here but be clear, it is not me going off topic or has trouble with calm. To pull the reins back (as I do in a Canadian spirit, I am using a very solid example of forensic audio tools to try and get this legal drama out of the forefront and back to the OP and the our world which includes spectral audio and related examples of how to do that.

The legal aspect of this was a show stopper imho, and if you read between the lines here, Paul, Kurt (subtly) and I have been trying to turn the thread around. My contributions on spectralayers is astonishing technology. All related and very solid information of where this technology is going.

I suggest(ed) we move the legal stuff to a new thread (which is why I asked what would you like it called?) I'm okay with it going in the lounge as a reference but I hate to see this thread all broken too.
You two guys @DonnyThompson @dvdhawk I suggest to try harder to lighten up.

:D