24 Tracks Control Behringer-Buy or Sell? How can I simplify my workflow.

Discussion in 'Consoles / Control Surfaces' started by phantomvintagegear, Jun 29, 2018.

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How can I simplify my workflow.

  1. Sell the 24 track controller?

    0 vote(s)
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  2. Buy a rackmount mixer and 1 channel faderport?

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  1. phantomvintagegear

    phantomvintagegear Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    What a challenge.
    Im simple, I like old school play rewind fast forward record
    push the button and go
    Ive had tape machines, Adats, HD 24, and now using the Behringer X Touch with 2 Extenders to have 24 tracks of control.
    Its a studio in my home, mostly for my projects.
    I find I havent been using the X touch at all, other than play and record.
    Thats expensive 2K for just a few buttons. I stand when I play and record and find I wish I had my mics plugged in with faders and eq on my 7 foot rack so that I can walk up and pull the fader up and use the eq. believe it or not Ive been looking at the really old Tascam M-208 Mixer. Then I though for control I could use a Presonus faderport. 1 channel, with the simple controls.
    I use reaper, and mis with harrison mixbus. Im going into a clarett 4 pre.
    Any suggestions would be helpful.
     
  2. phantomvintagegear

    phantomvintagegear Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
  3. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Location:
    Boston, Massachusetts
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    hey there.

    Transport controls are easy enough via a QWERTY keyboard, even in commercial studios with full consoles, and control surfaces, this is usually how i do it.

    I own a tascam M-30 mixer thats been sitting around for quite some time. one thing to keep in mind is the condition of the mixer. mine has scratchy pots, and doesnt have phantom power, or balanced connections for that matter. i wouldnt guess this would be the best solution. while the X-former based pre's are decent, there are far superior desktop mixers available out there.

    have you considered the berringer X-32 digital mixer? this allows you to patch in your rack gear, and slide up the faders, while doubling as a HUI controller.

    theres nothing wrong with single channel control surfaces like the fader port, i have used the old aplha track single channel controller in my home studio a while back. in some ways its nice to have it snap to watever track your working on, but the single fader limitation comes into play when you want to adjust a track that isnt currently selected. that forces you to click on the track to adjust it, making it faster to just use the mouse/trackball/trackpad instead.

    the clarrett allows you to control your input gains remotely. it seems to me a wireless keyboard and mouse/ect, might be your simplest ticket. the main use for fader based units, is for the faders, if you find your not using them, then anything that controls transport works as good as the other imho.
     
  4. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

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    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    the M-208 has balanced outs on the 4 subgroups. still a bit noisy by todays standards. but i still like how they sound compared to a Mackie or Bernjr things.
     
    kmetal likes this.
  5. phantomvintagegear

    phantomvintagegear Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Thanks guys. Yeah it was just a thought about the mixer. Didnt realize it didnt have phantom, which I need. Yes the X-32 I did think about. Something that would allow me to pretty much do everything from there.
    But do I need it is the question? Do I really need it.
    I seem to always go back. Was even looking at this because it also had 4 xlr inputs : http://tascam.com/product/fw-1082/images/
    The old Tascam was just a thought and I wouldnt be doing my recordings any favors noise wise.
    Also has technology up to par with specialized keyboards for DAW's like reaper? I've seen one with Pro Tools before.
     
  6. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    besides needing a firewire port, the tascam doesnt have scribble strips, making it difficult to know what track your controlling. thats the main reason i never bought it when i was considering it.

    we put some stickers on the number pad on the mac keyboard to indicate play, rec, FF, RW.

    to me, if you needed something, its because you cant do what your trying to do without it. there's also the learning curve, and cost of entry involved. it covers alot of bases, and is well received by the owners i know. ive used it a couple times and feel like it sounds good. that said its a fairly hefty investment in time and money if your not sure your gonna get full use out of it. really your the only one who can ultimately answer this question, and it depends on our workflow ect, ect.

    my personal preference would be for a high end ADDA instead, since it has the most impact on the sonics in and out of the computer.
     
  7. phantomvintagegear

    phantomvintagegear Active Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Thx Kmetal. Yes I keep hearing about putting the money into ADDA and investing sonically. Any recommendations? Keep the Clarett 4 pre?
     
  8. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Location:
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    Burl, Apogee, Lavry, RME (adi series), DAD, Prism, all make top notch, high performance conversion. Grace has an 8ch preamp/converter unit that im personally interested in. They're a step up in price and performance relative to the clarett series, which is a mid teir line. So much depends on your channel count, connectivity, and taste requirements.

    without having any idea of your musical preferences, your monitors, mics, outboard gear, instruments, and listening environment, its tough to make s call as to whether the clarett is the weak link.

    based on what i can infer, i would imagine the room acoustics, and monitoring is likely the weak link, as its usually the weak link in most home/project studios. ive spent over a decade learning about acoustics, and building studios, so i have an appreciation for what a good room and monitoring system does to the recording experience- it simplifies it, and makes it much more fun, without guesswork. id lay mt focus there first, as you cant mix what you cant hear. this assumes a decent instrument and a mic like an sm-57 or similarly ubiquitous studio standard. Without good accurate monitoring and a good sounding tracking space, you wont necessarily get the most out of high performance conversion, since the difference can be sublte, but is otherwise un-attainable.

    if those are covered i high end channel strip can really bring up the quality level.
     
  9. phantomvintagegear

    phantomvintagegear Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    My acoustics is a weak link. Monitoring I use NS-10's, auratone 5C's, Avantone Active Cubes and the Avantone mP-1 headphones which I have been getting some pretty cool mixes.
    Yes Ive always just wanted 1 really good channel striip. thats all I need.
     
  10. phantomvintagegear

    phantomvintagegear Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    This looks quite interesting.
    Grace Design m103 Single Channel Mic Pre/EQ/Compressor
     
  11. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    Some rigid fiberglass and a little elbow grease can go a long way. youve got good monitors.

    ive never used it, but grace doesnt make anything thats compromised. in the budget category the presonus eureka is a killer buy. the polar opposite sound of the grace would be a neve channel strip, BAE makes some killer recreations used by people like Steve Vai. it really depends on what your recording. im personally interested in the clean/clear side of sound tracking these days, since ive spent alot of time with some other wonderful alternatives. You might like the Focusrtie ISA channel strip, as something sonically in between a neve and grace.
     
  12. phantomvintagegear

    phantomvintagegear Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Ah man I knew it. I had a Eureka by fluke never learned to use it properly but to my ears sounded incredible. Nobody listened and I sold it.
    That might be all I need into the TRS of the Clarett 4 pre. also I always wanted to hear the Focusrite ISA One Analog. Any idea how they compare?
     
  13. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    +1 on the ISA. -1 on anything PreSonus. (i just don't like them.) what do you record? are you recording by yourself or ensembles? do you use a mic or mics? if so, what kind? i got the impression you are recording guitars for the most part. are you doing drum tracks or keys too?
     
  14. phantomvintagegear

    phantomvintagegear Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    I record
    Guitars
    Elecric
    Acoustic
    Bass
    Keys
    Vocals
    I get other people to do drums

    My mics are
    Rode nt3
    Cad e300
    Neuamn tlm 103
    melodyne 42B
    Rode ntk
    And a few others
     
  15. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    ive used both, and they are both good. they have the same price point, and id say they're roughly equal as units. the thing to remember however is the eureka has a compressor, and eq, so its not apples to apples. as a standalone pre amp, the isa is imho better (fuller, more open), tho the eureka is a transformer coupled pre, and not a slouch, and not too far behind the isa. the eureka compressor is very transparent and useful, and the eq isnt bad, i usually found myself using it to cut a couple db of low, or boost a little high. some people are for some reason scared to eq or compress on the way in, i prefer to do so (when the source calls for it) as i like to dial in the sound as much as possible at tracking. it leaves less futzing and dsp usage later on, and is more inspiring during tracking.

    the answers to kurts questions will really help narrow things down. both units are versatile, and i have more experiences with the eureka, i find it excels at a 'modern' vocal sound, snare, overheads, and is decent for acoustics. the compressor comes into play with vocals and drums. the isa is more 'classy', and im sure no slouch anywhere, although ive primarily heard it on vocals. what you do get is something Rupert Neve designed, and one part of a big budget console design.

    if it were between the two, and i was doing multiple different sources, and not getting anything else, id have to err toward the eureka because you get the compressor and eq which can be patched into/bypassed. if i was starting from pre amp, and looking to add on a nice compressor and eq as i could, id for with the isa. ive always particularly liked the isa and found it better than alot of things out there, price indifferent. it sits comfortably next to calrec, manley, and api, and is not a compromise, just another option. at least from my experiences at my home base studios. FWIW an isa 424 is on my hitlist nd has been for sometime, and the 828 is even better cost per channel-wise. i would have gotten a eureka or two, already, but i have acess to 6 of them, so thats enough.

    the eureka is the ONLY presonus unit id personally buy (happily at least) i opted for focusrite scarlet when i needed a $100 interface. the eureka is a real unit, if you ever try one, give it a fair shot. it sits fine amonsgt the big dogs, and ive selected it over the big dogs for some things. watever thats worth.

    +1's
     
  16. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    man, id trade out those mics. get a tlm 102, some sm57's, and a cascade ribbon mic with the (jensen?) transformer option instead. then plug that into my nice new pre/channel strip. maybe a nice high quality DI box too, depending on if you amp up the keys and bass. something like the grace channel strip would probably do wonders for that variety of sources, and 'stack' quite well. (not knocking those mics, just think theres significantly better especially in the same or lesser price ranges- ive used the rode ntk, and tlm103)
     
  17. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    .

    so i vote for an ISA. Focusrite makes a cool 4 channel unit. Focusrite 428.

    dddeoay27qpawabizvwc.jpg

    they are very down the middle as far as colored or transparent. if a person can't get a good recording out of an ISA, they should give it up.
     
  18. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    Home Page:
    whats the available budget looking like?
     
  19. phantomvintagegear

    phantomvintagegear Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Ive beem eyeing the isa stuff for a few weeks
    Would love to hear the unit
    At least i feel like im starting to shape the studio into what will benefit what i do
     
  20. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    i hate that they got rid of the beautiful classic looking VU meters on the 428mk2. its really tough to go wrong with an ISA.
     

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