A General Statement on the importance of great monitors

Discussion in 'Monitoring' started by sdevino, Jan 1, 2004.

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  1. themidiroom

    themidiroom Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Location:
    St Louis
    One can learn to mix on anything. I would imagine a commercial studio has to keep the most popular monitors since they may have to acommodate numerous engineers. I like my NS10s and my Behringers. My next monitor will be something I've designed that can be tweeked and modified to my room and mixing style.
     
  2. TeeME

    TeeME Guest

    If I was ever on the same page with somone, It would be close to that of "themidiroom's" post. I do prefer to not have monitors lying to me on the bottom though....
     
  3. akira_k

    akira_k Guest

    Hello to all of you!

    I´m quite new in this site, but I´ve been reading to your forums for some time, and it is nice to see that pro-guys are sharing their know-how generously.

    I´d like to ask an opinion on KRK E 8 monitors, I just recently had a chance to do a mix on them and it was awsome! I´ve been working on Genelecs (1029 and 1030) for some time, and I must say that on Genelecs the result sounds "ready" a bit too early (compared to E 8s).
     
  4. gasy

    gasy Guest

    I plan to buy a pair of KRK V 8. Is there any other advices about these monitors ?

    Thanks
     
  5. Right now I use my home theater speakers as my "monitors". For my hobby, I think they are sufficient. Anyone have any input/experience? Thanks!

    I use...

    A pair of Infinity IL-10 speakers (retails $199 each)

    A 5.1 surround system: Polk Audio RM7200 (retails $1299)
     
  6. RecorderMan

    RecorderMan Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2001
    ProAcs...my personal favorite nearfield...don't get to use it enough though. Rick Rubin likes 'em too
     
  7. For all those who are considering purchasing monitors, perhaps for the first time, I think the best advice anyone can give you is to listen to as many as you can get your hands on. If you have a good relationship with an audio dealer they may even let you bring them to your home studio to try them out in the space you will be working in. It really is the only way to find "The Ones". Spec sheets don't do it, listening to the opinions of others is okay to give you some ideas, but it's your own ears that will make the difference. I purchased my first pair of monitors for my home studio just a few months ago. I had previously worked as an engineer in a post production environment and mixed on Genelec S30A's which sounded pretty good and laso mixed on Mackie HR824s which sounded pretty good considering the price range. But in my home studio I set a budget for the monitors and the ones I found in my price range that sounded good in my home studio were the Tannoy Reveal Actives. Many people may not like the sound of these, and honestly, I didn't think I did either when I heard them at the audio dealer's studio, but when I took them home and gave a listen, I was comfortable with them. The midrange was clear and accurate which in post production work involving a lot of dialogue that was a key for me. The low end is tight to a point and then disappears but that's okay. If I need to hear that low, I can get a matching subwoofer for the system. The point is, had I strictly gone by other's suggestions I would still be looking because I would be so confused. But people's experience can help you narrow down the options and many people were helpful when I was searching. Just make sure your ears make the final decision.
     
  8. Todzilla

    Todzilla Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2003
    Location:
    Neuse River Watershed
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    Shouldn't it be said that the most important thing is the listening environment? By this I mean the combination of the monitors, the amplification and the all-too-overlooked acoustic character of the listening space?

    I've seen plenty of folks hemorhage(sp?) money on high-end monitors and then stick them in a room with little more than some chunks of undulating foam on the walls.

    </soapbox>
     
  9. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    Let's assume that everyone here has a good listening enviornment. There are plenty of threads on acoustics in the (gasp) acoustics forum ... let's leave that talk for over there and just concentrate on monitors in this thread.
     
  10. CAE

    CAE Guest

    DO NOT go with Event. They are the worst company I have ever dealt with. They are quite literally the most unfriendly, unprofessional, lousiest excuses for business people I have ever had the distinct displeasure to deal with. And that is only when I was able to actually get a hold of them because, you see, they have a habit of ignoring emails and not picking up their phones and of not calling you back even when you leave nice messages. I own a pair of TR8s and was thoroughly unimpressed. They aren't all that flat as they hype them to be. "Tuned"...HA! Yeah right. And one of my pair went kaput after only a year of moderate use. In fact, in my experience with the company, I would go so far as to say they are cheap toys by a fly-by-night scam company with a wretched customer support dept who seem to have the same manufacturing strategy as most car companies...planned obsolesence. Do your research people! A good way to find out about a company is to get ahold of their service dept before buying their product. It's easy to do and you may just walk away with a better idea of whether or not you want to do business with the company. I didn't do this and now I regret it. I am out $500 dollars and I can't seem to get anyone at the company to answer their phones or their emails about a return authorization number. HORRIBLE company! BUYER BEWARE!!! :evil: :cry:
     
  11. mell

    mell Guest

    on tip you can think of is when you choose monitors you might consider "point scource" monitors like tannoy build them, you solve a hughe phase problem just by letting the entire frequency spectrum comming form one point only that means not only saving a chunk electronics wich correct the problem you create by placing the multiple components at different places in a cabinet ,the only phase diffenrence left with "point scource"are the two cabinets in respect of eachother (moving left with your head and right out of centre) and instead of going for new "modern" monitors why not look at monitors wich have proven themselves over the years maybe over decennia.
    i wouldn't go too small either , larger monitors work like a magnifieing glass they can give you a better view of you stereo image, bigger does not mean go louder btw.
     
  12. mell

    mell Guest

    altec 604's are also very good to work on but ya have to have a room wich they can perform in.
     
  13. bluetomgold

    bluetomgold Guest

    Reference vs. Mix tool & AR18

    Does anyone else here use Acoustic Research AR18s? I find them to be a great compromise between a 'proper' monitor and a mix tool like the NS-10. And I can afford them, and they work in my tiny room.

    The discussion happening here seems to largely consist of people talking at cross-purposes. Surely there are two types of 'monitor'.

    1. A reference monitor for giving you maximum info on mic placement, source quality etc.

    2. A mix monitor to allow you to produce mixes that work on a range of playback systems.

    Let's face it, most people building project or home studios need their monitors to do both jobs, and often within the confines of a small space which limits useful frequency range anyway.

    Whether you choose ATCs, Dynaudios or Yamaha NS-10s you are making a compromise between recording accuracy and the ability to create a successful mix. I have completed recording projects working purely with either 'reference' or 'mix' monitors, and ultimately the results depend on what kind of system the mix is played on by its consumer. That is, what kind of stereo I play it on when I get home!

    Some (commercial) albums sound great in my car but awful when I get home. The same visa-versa. This is no accident! Your mix monitor should give you an idea of what the music will sound like to it's target audience. Fans of different genres are likely to use different kinds of playback system.

    There's no doubt that working with a quality reference monitor is more enjoyable (and easier), but it's not always a guarantee of the 'right' mix. Mixing rock on NS-10s is hard work, and your ears will not thank you, but these speakers have unique qualities that can give you great results.

    The problem with a speaker as 'bad' as the NS-10 (I'm talking in terms of having an accurate/flat frequency response) is that it is often almost useless when placing mics, checking a source for distortion, etc. You get the feeling it may be lying to you!

    What I decided was I needed a speaker with the immediacy and dynamics of the NS-10, but a more even, accurate (and listenable) frequency response. But nothing too over-engineered. I think its sometimes a mistake to believe that high-tech materials and complicated design are the answer. Look at how simple the old Ureis, Tannoys and Altecs are - paper cones, relatively simple crossovers - nothing weird to confuse your brain, but well-designed.

    The AR18s to me are a more accurate, nicer-sounding NS-10. They give me a great idea of what mixes will sound like on a shitty transistor radio, but I'm not left scratching my head when moving a mic around an acoustic guitar.

    x
     
  14. iznogood

    iznogood Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    but let's get something straight....

    it's not impossible to get such monitors....

    i work on a set of monitors that has both "recording accuracy and the ability to create a successful mix".... and that i can trust for mastering.

    then in the final stages of a mix or mastering i can check the levels and overall feel on ns10's and genelecs

    the problem (i think) is that the pro audio scene is far off when they produce "professional" monitors....

    i've been listening to all kinds of speakers since the age of 12 (i'm 33) and it seems to me that pro audio monitor developers are caught in between making speakers that play insanely loud..... and sound "great" to an untrained ear.... and that is completely idiotproof to use.... and most important... doesn't cost a dime ...... because people today don't wanna spend anything on anything..... even the thing that they live and breathe for..... music/audio

    sure sometimes the hifi-geeks drift into a parallel universe of insanely expensive gear..... but maybe the "pro" world should stop and take a listen.... and learn....

    btw these are the monitors that i love...

    http://www.danskaudioteknik.dk/sites/icon.htm

    i use them with a sub that unfortunately is a bit maladjusted at the time.... but nothing that i can't "listen around"

    they cost about $1500!!!!

    then of course you need a sub.... a 250 watt amp and some good cables (actually ours could be better.... but they always can..... argh :? i'm becoming a hifi-geek again!!!)

    my best advice would be to try and steer away from these endless masses of "aluminum dome and a 6 1/2 inch woofer with 2x80 watts" and fancy words like : "Directivity Control Waveguide™" or "logarithmic wave guide" etc. etc..... and take a look at some desent hifi/hiend speakers and maybe go on ebay and find a krell amp for 2k

    far to many musicians/mixers/mastering people are relying on bad monitors every day..... haven't y'all at some point wondered "why my mixes doesn't sound exactly like i want them to on the radio" ????

    i think that i have a talent for mixing..... but i'm useless with bad monitors...... and i think ..... so are y'all
     
  15. iznogood

    iznogood Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    by the way..... same tweeters as the lipinski's.... from denmark.... i might add .... not without pride 8)
     
  16. Thank you to "iznogood" -- I think the pro audio folks can learn a bit from the hi-fi components and speakers.

    I've been happy with my Dynaudio BM6a (purchased with the advice of a pro engineer), but I liked the ProAc Studio 100s as well. Only thing is, the 100s *need* more lower bass extension below 70 cycles.

    Has anyone on here used B&W in their mix rooms? What about ATC bookshelves?
     
  17. Sanity Inn

    Sanity Inn Guest

    Hey michael,,

    I have the ATC scm 20 pro, neerfield monitors,,,, I can't personally compare them to any other name brand monitors, but I have had a few recording engineers give them a listen, who have tried most brands in their work experience, and would love a pair,,

    the one guy, who visited from Sweden ( i'm in Toronto, he plans to move here) was all set to buy Adam's and thought ATC were more musical and could listen to them longer,,

    Also, a mojor cross cananda radio station did 3 months of sound tests with genelecs, adams, ATC,, Klipsh ,,

    they even tried the ATC 20 consumer version ( hi fi) whicj is a couple grand less then the pro monitors, and bigger prettier case,,, basically, the radio stations even tried consumer high end monitors,,


    they did go with ATC 150 on mains, and " wanted " the scm 20 pro neerfield ) but chose Dynaudio Bm6a's for 2 reasons,,,, weight and cost, ( cost cause they needed mutilple sets )


    not sure if this is what type of info you wnated to hear,,

    peace

    SI
     
  18. radioliver

    radioliver Guest

    I have B&W in my mix room and I really like them. Needs a little extra bass though but if you get the 802s or better, that shouldn't be a problem. I really like the pure sound of the B&Ws. Personnal taste though. I find that for the price, you really get a good deal!

    Cheers
     
  19. shezan

    shezan Guest

    hi guys i m Shezan this is my first day in this forum so trying to read msot of the topics and also giving my opinions also and asking too i would like to ask you guys also... i have a pair of Genelac 1030A and KRK K-Rok
    i have digi002 rack... can you guys tell me how can i setup my 5.1 Surround setup by utilizing my current setup... and should these monitors be used for this purpose or i should go for other brands or products...i have been doing music for three years but now i wanna go for background scoring so wanna put some hand in surround world can you guys give me some tips and advices plz...
     
  20. Thank you, Sanity Inn!! I was able to take the plunge after taking out a new mortgage on these babies,

    I bought the hi-fi version (non-powered) of the SCM-20 SL and am powering them with Bryston 4B-ST amplifier. I got them as a demo model and they sound amazing.

    I want to find another dealer in NY who has a pair so I can get one for the studio *and* for home listening. What's incredible besides the detail is the great bottom end for their size. This is where the ProAc's fall apart (but they are great, too).
     
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    The New AT5047 Premier Studio Microphone Purity Transformed

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