Discussion in 'Recording' started by took-the-red-pill, Apr 22, 2006.

  1. took-the-red-pill

    took-the-red-pill Active Member

    Near Clagary
    Home Page:
    So I'm 'helping' these friends at a church record this kid's choir, by setting up mics and giving them some pointers, and I'm going to help them mix it. I'm no pro but they know nothing so I look like God if I know which end of the mic to talk into.

    We do some tests on the kit, I take a 58(because that's what they have) and put it inside the kick, 5" from head, halfway between the beater and the edge, and I angle it away from the beater a bit to prevent 'woofing.' We hit record and get a very useable kick. Okay, it's not an RE20, but it's pretty decent. clear, punchy. I wasn't embarrassed at all to put my name on it. I tell them to do set it up exactly as I've shown them before each session.

    Then their "sound guy" :-? shows up when I'm gone and starts beakin' off about how you never, ever put a mic inside a kick as it will shred the diaphragm and he makes them move it outside the drum.

    Apparently 50 year of recording history and the fact that the drum was clear with no distortions were not good enough for him...

    So they did a bunch of songs with the kick his way, and now I have this flabby piece of fecal matter for a kick and I don't know if I can salvage it. I may have to get them to re-record all the drum tracks they've done so far.

    I don't suppose there are any good tricks for this, involving EQ, compression, prayer, a molotov cocktail?

    Have any of you buggered up a mic putting it inside a kick? I've never heard of this and I always thought my approach was a fairly basic starting point.

    In case you haven't noticed, I'm frustrated. :evil:

    Have a nice day all
  2. restashured

    restashured Guest

    It seems very unlikely that the diphragm would break in a kick drum. Especially with a dynamic mic. Maybe a condenser would have this issue, if it got a lot, and I mean A LOT of SPL. As for fixing the track, I would say re-record if you can. It's much harder to fix a bad track than to tweak a good track.

  3. StevenColbert

    StevenColbert Member

    IMO you will not be able to get a much better sound out of it.
    Unless, you do one of two things.
    A) replace the kick drum hit with some software samples.(something like the Drumagog program or something simular to this)
    B) change the kick drum note into a midi note.
    Then send it to a Alesis DM5 or a Roland V-Drum drum brain. Or anything simular to these units.

    Most likely you will need to re-record the drums, which sucks BUT....
    Make sure you use your re-recorded tracks to make the other "sound guy" look & sound like a fool. And so that the kids and anyone important get to see that you fixed it and that you are a better sound guy than the other "no nothing goofball"

    1) re-record & make your recordings sound nice
    2) also make a mix of his recordings, so everyone else can judge for themselves.
  4. took-the-red-pill

    took-the-red-pill Active Member

    Near Clagary
    Home Page:
    thanks gents,

    I'm cooled down a bit now, so I'm thinking more clearly

    I'll take my OM2 and get them to put it in the kick and re-record. It would be nice to have an RE20 or a D112 or something but oh well.

  5. baslotto

    baslotto Active Member

    Are you recording on ProTools? There is a great plugin called SoundReplacer that will do the magic in about 3 seconds and save your recording.
    If you know anybody with ProTools transfer the session and downoad the free demo for 14 days ( I believe).
    If you recorded on digital and you want to send me the track I'll do that for you.

  6. StevenColbert

    StevenColbert Member

    Too cool 8)
  7. baslotto

    baslotto Active Member

    For free!! :wink:
  8. JWL

    JWL Active Member

    Portland, Maine
    Home Page:
    Next time you have to record a kick drum with an SM58, try this trick: unscrew the windscreen/pop filter, put it aside, and put the de-balled SM58 in the kick, finding the sweet spot, usually a couple inches back from where the beater hits the head.

    It won't sound as good as an RE20 or other kick mic, but it's better than a stock 58 to be sure. This trick has saved my a$$ on several live sound gigs...
  9. took-the-red-pill

    took-the-red-pill Active Member

    Near Clagary
    Home Page:
    Thanks again gents

    No, for better or worse(actually just cheaper) I'm a Cubase SL man. We do what we can with what we have.

    As far as downloading programs, free or otherwise, it's a bit of a nightmare right now. My internet computer is an old Mac, on dial up in the country, running OS9(the box was built in '94!) My recording computer is a new fast PC with no internect connection at all, as I want to keep it clean. To get the two to communicate is darned near impossible so I can't download anything. Some day...

    JWL, so are you saying the pop filter on the 58 attenuates frequencies that are desireable for a kick? Interesting, I would have thought that if a pop screen were to attenuate any frequencies, they would be in the high end. Live and learn.

  10. JWL

    JWL Active Member

    Portland, Maine
    Home Page:
    I've not measured the response, but going by my ears I'd say that the windscreen has a focusing effect in the upper mids and lower highs, and a softening effect on the low end. It's also associated with the famous presence boost that these mics have. The kick sounds like it has more low end (probably more air is getting to the diaphragm), and there is a bit more definition overall.

    I dunno, like I said, I'd still rather have a real kick mic. But this works in a pinch. Remember, the SM58 is basically an SM57 with the ball windscreen.
  11. ggunn

    ggunn Guest

    I dunno about that; put me down as "skeptical".
  12. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    I think there is also some rear port changes
    and this is the bit that brings the proximity effect of the 58 ... I think

    I've use 58's in the kick .... House systems and crap PA's where just could'nt be bothered with bringing my own mics

    you gotta use what ever is there

    I generaly end up with the 58 on the pillow at the bottom of the drum
    it tends to muffle and lower the max pressure at the diaphram
    also being at or nearer the edge of the drum gives it a PZM type of position
    remember it's not a M88 or ATM21 ... or the RE or Egg
    but it will return a usable sound if the desk has some EQ that can twist it in your favour

    it will never be an up front kick sound so keep it low in the mix just so it gives a punch but without showing everyone how bad it really is.

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