Allen & Heath GS-R24

Discussion in 'Consoles / Control Surfaces' started by hueseph, Oct 29, 2012.

  1. vibrations1951

    vibrations1951 Active Member

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    I was tracking a couple on ebay for around 725. Maybe not the safest bet. I also just missed one at Gearslutz by 2 days for 700. I'm gonna take that as a sign right?!
     
  2. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Distinguished Member

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    I don't think the zed is a bad idea. My feelings on it (not that it matters a whole lot) was it does a lot for the money and covers a lot of bases. The way I see it is if you are thinking of it, then start w the zed. Then see if there's any holes you need to fill be it coversion, pre amp, or control surface.

    As long as your keeping the notion that it may (or may not) fill all your needs it's perfect. There's a reasonable chance you might not need an additional fader control surface.

    You also might, but able to score a not action nocturn for like $50 since your system is using the OS it is. It's a pluggin controller. The most useful feature is the 'speed knob' one knob where it automatically control whatever pluggin parameter your mouse of hove were over. So basically the mouse hovers w one hand and the other is on the knob. This is fast. Really fast. And intuitive. There is no better way I've seen to control plugins. If they made a new one I'd buy it just for the speed knob for 4x he original price. Unjust sold mine a few weeks ago. There were no drivers for W10 os. Anyway
    Just figured I'd mention it.

    The artist mix is not cheap, and really only does one thing, and does it well. So it's something to be sure you want/need.


    The huge plus in my book w the zed is eq. I really really value eq on the way in. Some don't.
     
  3. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Distinguished Member

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    I would. In the last year or so, everytime I've tried to force a purchase it's ended up not being ideal for one reason or another.

    Besides I'm not sure a used control surface is the best bet. My boss grabbed used control surfaces and pre amps, and had some problems with them. Particularly ones that were 'good deals' price wise. A eureka had a bent stuck knob, the control surfaces (mackie mcu) developed some power issues and busted faders. Granted he/we put a lot of hours on them, but still. He ordered and a digidesign c-24 that was straight up broken supposedly during shipping. He ended up w it for next to nothing and it randomly started working.

    I've spent as much time fiddling with the mackie d8bs at the other studio than using them. Trips to the tech who works on abbey road tape machines, having him come there, just a nightmare. Basically I've had enough of used half assed stuff lol. Guitars are one thing. Amps too. But my luck w used gear is half hearted. When I buy new I use it till the wheels fall off.

    I learned all about broken gear and tech problems in the last 7 years at the studios. Something I'd never experienced before even w my cheap home gear like portastudio and soundblasywr USB sounds cards and HP computers.

    Only protools have me problems and that was before the re wrote it properly for Windows and every day machines. It didn't support my 'state or the art' lol core 2 duo pentium laptop. And was a nightmare.

    My cousin bought floor model mackie HR8 speakers from sweetwatwr and has ran them every day for 9 years no prob.

    I'm a huge fan of motorized faders, but used ones I'd be cautious of. It's one of those things that likely saw very little use, or very much use. Not often anything in the middle imho.

    Sorry to ramble.
     
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  4. vibrations1951

    vibrations1951 Active Member

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    Thanks K
    From what I can tell right now the Zed may be a darn good fit for me. I like the option. The analog out through the insert to the aurora should be able to access the rout through the EQ if I choose and use the correct routing buttons and cabling if I understood him correctly about this..

    He was real helpful in explaining this. As you say, there may be holes later but at the very least, I'll have some nice pres at the right price. I will check out the action nocturne. I've never heard of it.
     
  5. vibrations1951

    vibrations1951 Active Member

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    Great ramble!
    I am still tweaked a bit about not having mechanized faders but will have to see for myself if this is a problem for me.
    The Nocturn seems to be $99. Interesting idea....something for me to consider.
    Thanks
     
  6. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Distinguished Member

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    Yeah that's absolutely huge!!!

    Honestly i think I'm on the minority side of the concensus especially w the guys around here. I'm a bit of a glutton, and tend to have a princes taste on a paupers budget. It's like once I discover a 'better way' I'm not longer satisfied w the previous way, even if it's a small diff.

    There's a good chance that you'll develop your workflow just fine and 'not know what your missing' or more in reality not be 'missing' anything.

    I'm excited for ya man! Keep us posted. I've leaned a lot already from this thread. I'm looking forward to seeing how your hybrid flow develops. I've just picked out my two interfaces to hook up to two new computers, so I'm. Missing the summing box and pre if I end up w the fulcrum.

    Curious to see how your system gets hooked up Ect! Cheers man!
     
  7. vibrations1951

    vibrations1951 Active Member

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    Congrats! You must be pumped! The Folcrom is a nice clean pass for me and I love being able to choose the quality of pre to taste, not that I've done a lot but it's cool!
    Good luck and hope to check in soon!
    Later
    namaste
     
  8. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Distinguished Member

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    I was wondering how you felt about having to run it through a pre amp. If you found it a post ice or negative.??
     
  9. vibrations1951

    vibrations1951 Active Member

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    Challenges:
    Needing to use 2 channel or matching pres between it and the next signal stage, but for me this is rarely a limit.

    Because the Folcrom is passive, I find it takes a good amount of "juice" in the pre to boost the signal up after a pass through.

    If you want to use the pre during recording as well as monitor Box 2 at the same time, it takes the pre out of your tracking signal path...but that is rarely a problem for me because during tracking, I'm mostly monitoring just box 1.

    Again, for me, getting used to buttons for panning is different but not bad.

    Positives:
    Being able to double duty pres from transparent/clean all the way through the varying colours of others during recording/mixing is really cool I think! If I have the particular chosen pre patched in during recording, I can monitor off Box 1, the analog pass, or Box 2 to help me make choices early on rather than "fix it in the mix.", Then I still have options later...kinda like choosing mics and eq/compression on the way in if that makes sense.

    With my modest setup, I forget it's even there most of the time.

    I love the flexibility of utilizing what little outboard gear I have in many different configurations in the analog pass. It does take 2 channel gear but I've always tried to purchase stuff this way anyway. My thinking from the start was that I may want to use it on the final 2 bus pass, even before I had any clue about hybrid setups...not that I have a great deal of experience or knowledge now, but I'm loving it so far!

    OPTIONS! Even though it can get challenging with patching for me, I love the options and making the most of what gear I have. I think the Folcrom increases these options/flexibility. I'm not stuck with the particular "sound of 1 board". It's like having the choice of a Neve, SSL, etc., based on the colours amd charcteristics of your pres.


    I don't know if that helps much because as I say, my experience is very limited as is my opinion.
    I'd say that overall, the Folcrom is a big positive for me.

    I'm curious to see how I'll use it with a hybrid board in the mix if/when I pull the trigger on the ZED.

    By the way, what interfaces did you go with?
     
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  10. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

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    In my earlier post I was talking about a channel's ADC being switchable between pre- and post-EQ. The insert send is switchable to be either the pre-amp output or the channel's DAC output, but is always pre-EQ.
     
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  11. vibrations1951

    vibrations1951 Active Member

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    Thanks for the clarification Bos.

    I'm happy to have the use of the pre before the ADC . It's too bad about the EQ but I think I can live w/o it in the meantime with judicious use of mics and my UA Cambridge plugin in my DAW.

    Sorry I misled you Kyle.
     
  12. vibrations1951

    vibrations1951 Active Member

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    Bos, I need to be sure I understand the rest of this correctly.
    1.
    Am I correct in thinking that if I use the cabling done like the DOC106 and TS cable to the Aurora, I could use the rest of the analog functions of the board at the same time as taking the analog signal from the pres as described?
    2. Would these signals that "pass on through the mixer" then be able to pass through the EQ as well for the rest of the signal path?
    3. So in the latter case utilizing the DOC106 arrangement, because my Aurora is routed to and from the board out to a normalized TRS patchbay via Db25 to TRS, would I need to change this cabling as well?
     
  13. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

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    Yes.
    Yes, Tapping the signal off in this way has no effect on the mixer functionality.
    If you use either the DOC106 adaptors or your own wired version followed by TS or TRS cabling, it should work correctly, but bear in mind that the feeds arriving at the patchbay will be unbalanced. These will pass through a balanced patchbay without problem. You just have to be sure that the signal -ve comes in as ground and is not floating. The DOC106 adaptors should ensure that, but I am slightly worried by their diagram that shows a TS socket on the cable and not a TRS with the ring grounded. If you are going to use the DOC106s, I would suggest using TS cabling to the patchbay, as the TRS input jacks there guarantee grounding on the ring contact when a TS plug is inserted. I've never used the DOC106s; I've always wired my own, so have never hit any problems.
     
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  14. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Distinguished Member

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    That's the point of all of this right!??

    Bingo. That point sold it for me. That really makes sense to me and hits home. Also your point about getting as much use out of your analog gear as possible also makes sense. Particularly pre amps, which aren't useful usually other than tracking. Not that this is an excuse to buy a bunch of pres now or anything... ;)

    Thanks for your thoughts. You've just sealed the deal on my braino on this. Plus your point about 'forgetting its there most of the time' is also a plus to me. To me, It means the engineer has a ton of control over color and or clarity.

    Awesomeness!!

    I decided on the RME babyface pro, which just came out a few months ago, for my primary tracking/monitoring adda, and a focusrite scarelett 18i20, which also just came out a couple months ago. The scarelett has 8 pres and 10 analog outs. The pres run in standalone just like an outboard pre would as well. I'll feed the summing box w the analog outs of the scarlet into the RME. My computers are all the latest generation chipsets from early 2016, so everything is on the same part of the tech wave. This is a first for me. Super excited to get everything out of the boxes and the interfaces ordered.

    Last time my monitors literally came out as I was returning the demo units so couldn't be newer, but my interface and software were basically obsolete/not written properly yet. My (150$) external hard drive was ATA when sata had just come out.

    I'll likely fell the pain when everything becomes obselete at once. But I'm planning on the obsolescence this time 3-5years. Set and forget this time, minimal upgrades and add ins. Those seem to wreak havoc on computer systems that are otherwise working well.

    Which just got me thinking about your system, maybe if nuendo 4 ain't broke.... I know you'd talked about upgrading. Maybe you dont/ won't need too.

    Fwiw his zed is sounding pretty freakin cool still!! Looking like maybe you've got a winner?
     
  15. vibrations1951

    vibrations1951 Active Member

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    Excellent. Thank you.


    So does this mean that if I want to continue using the balanced snake to the Aurora inputs analog, I would build my jack cables in place of the DOC106s as follows?

    Male TRS Tip and Ring together (+ according to the DOC106s diagram) to the Female TRS socket Tip terminal (short center post).
    Then the GND from the male TRS Shield to the Ring and Shield of the Female TRS socket.
     
  16. vibrations1951

    vibrations1951 Active Member

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    I sure think so!!
    Hell, why not!!
    In a sense, that would kinda be it for me if I integrate the ZED now...no upgrading needed for my DAW or anything else right now.
    This is a part of the whole digital thing I can't seem to get used to!
    Sure is looking that way more by the minute....
    I imagine! I very pumped for you. From what I can see, you've given this a ton of thought and research and I'll bet it will really pay off in the end. I really respect your process and values, not to mention your support to me and others here!
    Let's be sure to keep each other posted.
    Later
     
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  17. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

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    Yes, exactly.
     
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  18. vibrations1951

    vibrations1951 Active Member

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    Perfect.
    Thanks so much Bos.
     
  19. vibrations1951

    vibrations1951 Active Member

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    I'm so excited I just had to post. I've been laying out my workflow and cabling diagrams and if I've got it right, it's looking like this is all going to work out really well for me!

    Connecters on the way for cabling inserts and I just pulled the trigger on a new A&H Zed R16! Comes with 2 AT4040's, shockmounts and cables, which I may sell to recoup some costs.

    Looking at my schedule, it may take me a couple of months before I get it all patched together but when I do, I'll be sure to update with details.

    Again, thanks @Boswell,@kmetal @DonnyThompson @dvdhawk and @Sean G for all your valuable input and help walking me through yet another stage of my understanding and growth!
     
  20. dvdhawk

    dvdhawk Well-Known Member

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    I'm excited for you man, I'll look forward to your report.
     
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