Analog Summing + Printing in other computer

Discussion in 'Summing / Mastering consoles' started by Víctor, Oct 1, 2018.

  • AT5047

    The New AT5047 Premier Studio Microphone Purity Transformed

  1. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    Question: If you hear the low and high exactly the same going OTB through 2bus+ and Round Trip back to the same DAW... why do it?
     
  2. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Distinguished Member

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    :ROFLMAO:
     
  3. Víctor

    Víctor Active Member

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    I will take a look tomorrow a little look at those links, but i don't think i will read them all because there are many many pages... But... is there something im missing? Main reason is SRC or there is more...? Could you tell me more about it please?

    About 2-Bus+ VS ITB, sorry but i haven't got time for doing that... mixing through analog is Ok, trying to "replicate" the same ITB is not so Ok and it will take me time which for me is gold. If you have good studio monitors and acoustic treatment you will feel the difference of analog vs digital, and if you use headphones (i use the a lot since started listening music when i was young) you will feel it a little bit more. I could send you a mix which was done through the Dangerous, but it have more "colors" because Acustica Audio plugins. Im not here to debate ITB vs OTB btw. Dangerous summing sound is quite transparent but with a feel of width, 3D blablala... anyway is not the same summing 16ch vs 32 vs 48...

    Sorry but i don't understand your question. I have to record the audio... if i don't do it i don't record nothing...? I have only one DAW for the record... Im recording the signal coming from the 2-Bus+. Sorry but i don't understand the question.
     
  4. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    If you are simply summing otb with no additional gear then the same
    Mix could be made in about 5 minutes summing itb.
    I’ve done this many many times to check how both analog processing and converters are sounding. It’s part of calibration and study.

    It’s something anyone summing otb should do.
     
    Namin likes this.
  5. Víctor

    Víctor Active Member

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    I have got all the Acustica Audio "colors" emulating analog gear.

    Its going to take more than 5 minutes trying to replicate the same mix.

    What is the point of this that you want me to do? ITB vs OTB?

    Trying to "glue" ITB mix is going to make me insert some of this plugins in the master bus btw, so is not going to be a serious comparison.

    But maybe i do it if feel good when i build again my setup. I could just route all the aux channels that are doing the summing through the 2-bus+ to the stereo output and thats it? This will be a fair comparison?
     
  6. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    Can’t you just route the 16 or 32 sends to your master bus?

    Take any stereo or mono track and pass or sum it otb and itb then listen or null the two.

    You could do this to hear and share what your converters and 2bus is doing in a process .

    That’s how you can learn if you are being fooled or what something is doing so you learn more about processing! Emulation etc.

    This is actually why I use two DAWs as well. But another topic for now.

    To prove or discover a lot about gear I spend a lot of time listening and doing null test, listening to the remainders.

    Never the less... we at RO are always interested in hearing results and openly discussing ways to hear what a product is about.
    How to use it better and to pass the love and knowledge on to our great community.

    I’ve always wanted to try the Dangerous 2bus.
     
  7. Víctor

    Víctor Active Member

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    Yes i could do that with no problem, less than 5 mins btw... but i would have to make the mix with no plugin process in the buses/ aux tracks that are going to the otb summing box... well i will put plugin processing in the individual tracks and no problem.

    I will do it whenever i can, but i will do it for sure. I thought it was more complex than it really is.

    I have to say that im not been fooled with OTB summing, im very very sure of what is doing. I can feel it even more specially with the headphones (pure2 have an insert to plug them) and ive been all my life listening to music with them. I own now Focal Spirit ones since 2 years and i love them.

    Also, after so many years of mixing electronic heavy Kick/bass techno 125 bpm more or less, i know the time that it takes to make a decent mix glued and balanced for having a nice low end nd also a nice high end with a loud rms level. With OTB summing mixing is much easier mixing and you focus more on making music than engineering. All this time spend in ITB to make then a bounce and send all to the sh** btw. I could make a loopback in the pure2 to record the mix and avoid the bounce... but my big dream since many years ago is music with the sound the have clarity, detail, space, depth, 3D, separation, width... because ive heard records with that qualities and i want that in my sound. This was like 5 or 6 years ago, and i dint knew nothing about summing boxes. The point where i am now is a very large story of years and years searching for what ive mentioned. Im not fooled, and ive read so many posts before going to summing... you can't imagine. I dream with OTB summing having nightmares that it was a scam as some/many people say. Large story... remember im a ITB guy from the begging of my days, trying to avoid all the possible costs. Im obsessed with sound, that is my real problem.

    Audiokid, so are you using two DAW for something else apart for the SRC? are you doing some kind of null tests with your mixes printing in the same DAW and doing it in two...?
     
    audiokid likes this.
  8. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    Veryfun to have you here and so inspired to improve your mixes!

    Yes, its in all my history post. I am no longer working with music but I enjoy being the admin here and reading what everyone is doing.
     
    Namin likes this.
  9. Víctor

    Víctor Active Member

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    Where could it read that history post?
     
  10. Víctor

    Víctor Active Member

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    Ok i understand you wrong :)
     
  11. Víctor

    Víctor Active Member

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    Btw, i think i could get the mac of my brother, install there any DAW (Logic Pro X this time) and try to capture there the final mix. I will try after to make a null test with one capture and another.

    The route will be Mac1> DAW> Orion32 (converters)> 2-Bus+> Pure2> DAW Mac2

    So when i finish my mix, i will just put USB of the Pure2 in the Mac2 just for doing the capture... make sense? Am i overlooking something?

    Thanks
     
  12. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    Perfect.
     
  13. Víctor

    Víctor Active Member

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    :D Cool! So all what i need now is another computer to try this.

    Many thanks
     
  14. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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  15. coinmuki

    coinmuki Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2019
    Location:
    Linz
    Just in case If you are looking for something unique like a custom summing mixer designed for your needs, check this manufacturer - VintageMaker I ve read plenty of positive feedbacks - reviews (gearslutz, ask audio, audiofanzine and so on since 2010) about his custom built gears.

    You can get an many channels connectors like D-Sub DB25 Tascam, XLR or TRS balanced and options you want. You could get one larger or more featured. But here is the cool part. He builds each unit to custom order, you can layout the panel as you like, and get whatever options and channel counts you want.

    Desktop passive summing mixers

    passive-summing-mixer-desktop-studio.jpg

    1-2U Passive Summing mixers

    mixbus-studio-mixer.jpg

    Active/Passive 2in1 Neumann - Haufe transformer based analog mixers
    Technical description

    2u-summing-mixer-box.jpg

    Active/Passive 2in1 Lawo - Haufe transformer based analog mixers
    Tech specs - description

    2u-summing-mixer-xlr-dsub.jpg

    Active/Passive 2in1 Filtek - Haufe transformer based analog mixers
    Description

    analogmixer_xlr_neumann.jpg

    if you need something special like a Multibus group matrix summing mixer

    matrix-summing-mixer-3u.jpg

    Also you can check his gear database with more than 150 different unique summing mixers

    best-summing-mixer-2019-768x542.jpg

    here a huge Neumann 64 group Multibis matrix analog summing mixer

    38bfcb625574c54648000f4d5ec3fd8c.jpg

    and lastly a huge documentation about different options
    hope that helps if you want something special
     
    Athaulf likes this.
  16. coinmuki

    coinmuki Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2019
    Location:
    Linz
    Passive MultiBus Matrix Summing Mixer Designed for Neve 1073
    mixbus-studio-mixer.jpg
    Setup:
    2U Rack Unit
    16 input TRS Balanced
    16-input-and-mixbus-send-trs-balanced.jpg
    1xStereo out TRS Balanced L/R (OUTA)
    1xStereo out XLR Balanced L/R (OUTB)
    2x Stereo to mono switch = 4 mono
    mixbus-passive-studio-summing-mixer.jpg
    Multi insert/send/return/bypass switch option TRS
    4 x (SNDA/SNDB/SNDC/SNDD)- horizontal switch layout
    8 x Master Sum / Group Sum select switch
    multi-insert-send-return-master-bus.jpg
    4 x 8 = 32 ABCD Group Matrix
    ABCD Group send TRS balanced L/R
    ABCD Group return TRS balanced L/R
    mixbus-matrix-send-return-TRS-ABCD.jpg
    Matrix Return A/B stereo to Mono
    Master Stereo to Mono option by switch
    Engrave: “designed for CHO Yong uk by VintageMaker”
    designed for Neve 1073 work range

    More info: https://vintagemaker.net/studio-gallery/

    More gears:
    neve-ssl-dangerous-summing-mixer-6.jpg
     
  17. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    Mar 20, 2000
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    BC, Canada
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    Nice list of gear. Please feel welcome to talk about something you are excited about?
     
  18. vibrations1951

    vibrations1951 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    Location:
    hodgdon, me
    Hello again Chris. I've been very busy with life and studio construction but that's another story! Anyway, I'm back at trying to get my rig monitoring fine tuned.

    Here is my signal path:
    Inputs > Lynx 16ch > DAW 1 (Nuendo 4) > lynx stems > Folcrom 16 > pre choices > pure 2 > DAW 2 ( Samplitude) > Pure 2 2bus > capture. I'm using the ST for monitoring.

    Above you suggest the monitoring should access the "conversion location(s)".
    Right now I'm only monitoring the pure 2 out w/o having the DAW 2 set up yet so kind of a pass through.

    With my signal path, where would you suggest I tap monitoring points for the ST? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

    My thoughts are a stereo bus from the Lynx before the Folcrom if I can configure this in Nuendo w/o confounding the stem outs, Pre and other analog toys outza's, and Pure 2 out.....
    Thanks so much!
     
    dvdhawk likes this.
  19. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Distinguished Member

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    The best thing with the 2 comp setup is to have multiple point of monitoring. Monitoring DAW 1 and DAW 2 seperatly is the best way to hear the difference before and after mastering... ;)
     
    Namin and vibrations1951 like this.
  20. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

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    Apr 19, 2006
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    UK
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    For monitoring the source device (DAW1 in your case), you need the usual in-place multiple track or stem soloing, on a choice of speakers or headphones. There is no mix to monitor at this point.

    Subsequent monitoring points are the stereo analogue mix and the captured mix (a DAC output pair from DAW2).

    I have found that a push-button selection for the monitoring points using auto-release buttons is better than a rotary switch, as you can go rapidly between any pair of monitor points without the possible need to toggle through an intermediate one in the rotary switch case. I bought a simple multiple stereo loudspeaker selector, stripped out the wiring, and re-worked it to have combo XLR/TRS connectors and screened leads internally.
     
    vibrations1951 likes this.

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