Analog Summing Valid or Voodoo?

Discussion in 'Summing / Mastering consoles' started by daveski69, Jan 31, 2012.

  1. Sean G

    Sean G Well-Known Member

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    And BTW @audiokid ...when I upgrade I'm coming to rack your brain on the how-to's on a 2-DAW set-up.(y)
     
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  2. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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  3. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Distinguished Member

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    Man I gotta say your awesome for making it as far as you have in the industry. As a young up and coming professional, I've found being well rounded as my biggest asset. And I belive custom recording pcs will be more and more relavent as the passing of Steve jobs marks a new turn for Apple. I am not a computer designer, but I've had little luck with most computers Mac or PC. This is the computer I spec'd out for my (very significant) recording rig upgrade. This PC is in addition to all the converter/cable/rack Ect. I spent about a week researching the current offerings of parts on a both platforms pre built, and custom ordered. I picked this as what I thought will be a solid performer for about 3-5 years. I then picked out all the same parts on PC audio labs, website to compare costs. They're came in around $3200. I can't speak about specific compatability but these are all mainstream state of the art parts. And after specing it out myself, it was comforting to know that all these parts are included as options from a mainstream audio computer company. I did this back in August, and some of the parts werent quite out yet, now they all should be, and prices may have gone down.

    image.png

    I also just picked up this machine wich is going to be my mixdown daw, and be the machine to help me get my files organized, until I pull the trigger on the upgrade. The kid gave it to me w an extra 5% off, so I bought it on a whim. This is my first foray into AMD processing. Again, I can't attest to how well it will perform but even if it doesn't record a note I needed one for office and RO, of course. That said, the specs look decent and for the price point I thought it was a good purchase, can't wait to unbox it.

    http://www.bestbuy.com/site/hp-pavi...lver/4246800.p?id=1219712308322&skuId=4246800

    Ps fwiw I'm going to be moving from a budget FireWire interface, to Ethernet based networked audio. This via a company called Dante, and specifically the audio Dante virtual sound card, which uses any standard Ethernet point 128+ audio tracks, asynchronous sample rates, and video and other data.
     
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  4. Namin

    Namin Active Member

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    Jan 22, 2017
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    New Delhi
    The next part which is where I get more reward. Avoiding bouncing and being able to capture and master on a second DAW is by far the best workflow I have ever experienced. Without writing a book, I use two DAW's , both loaded with Samplitude/Sequoia and do no see me changing this simple process anytime soon. DAW is for mixing, DAW2 is for capturing and finishing. DAW2 is where I base all tracking, mixing and mastering decision.

    Being able to mix 2 channels into an uncoupled second DAW with mastering software is pure butter. Being able to hear your mix through an excellent converter that has a monitor out on DAW2 is the best.
    Avoiding bouncing is better than bouncing.

    I need nothing more. No gear and the second DAW doesn't need to be very powerful. All it is used for is basic summing and mastering. That's it.

    That's how I do it today.

    This is the most interesting recording/mixing workflow that I have ever come across in the last 10 years. Would you have a recommendation for the capture ad/da? Or one just needs simply an AD for example if we are using the Dangerous ST and Orion?
     
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  5. vibrations1951

    vibrations1951 Active Member

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    hodgdon, me
    So far I absolutely love my Pure2 by Antelope. It's my box 2 ad/da. Thanks to audiokid for suggesting I check it out.
     
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  6. Namin

    Namin Active Member

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    Thank you. I will check the Pure2. Much appreciated.
     
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  7. vibrations1951

    vibrations1951 Active Member

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    hodgdon, me
    You're welcome and good luck!
     
  8. Namin

    Namin Active Member

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    New Delhi

    Chris is a True Pioneer. Utmost respect.
     
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  9. Namin

    Namin Active Member

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    Jan 22, 2017
    Location:
    New Delhi
    I bought my Pure 2 and 32+... now the Dangerous ST is remaining! I cant thank you guys enough...There is something about this site that makes me believe that what you guys say is true and honest... Much love and respect...
     
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  10. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    Excellent choices.(y)

    Pro Audio is an evolution of constant learning and change. It is subject to cause and effect of endless possibilities and scenarios.
    I'm always learning and try to be transparent about that. I simply share what I do and always recommend others to make their own decisions best for them. Analog mixing, summing and mastering is very subjective and full of debate.
    A lot of analog outboard gear I've used in a hybrid mixing workflow are no longer an asset to me because digital tools are now replacing them . My entire analog summing process evolves.
    What was once value, is no longer.

    Thank you. Its good to have you with us. I look forward to learning from you as well. I look forward to hearing all about your hybrid discoveries.
     
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  11. Namin

    Namin Active Member

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    Jan 22, 2017
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    New Delhi

    Chris! I also did get an SPL Mixdream! Thank you so much for the welcome. I cannot tell you how excited I am to into this new way of working. I have not received my units yet. I promise you as soon as I get working with it, I will be posting before and after results. But I need to know one thing... Would it be advantageous to get one more Mixdream so that I can have 32 channels of summing?
     
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  12. Namin

    Namin Active Member

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    Jan 22, 2017
    Location:
    New Delhi


    I also discovered the above video and thought I should share it with you if not already where Simon briefly touches on an "old fashioned method" ! Enjoyed watching it particularly after reading about a certain 2 DAW workflow on RO
     
  13. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    I started with the MixDream and Dangerous Master then sold the Mixdream to buy the SPL NEOS because I wanted at least 24 channels. After using both MixDream and Neos, the Mixdream is a far better solution. The Neos sounds no better, has useless faders, usless panning and a useless mastering section.
    A Mixdream and Dangerous Master is what I would invest in. If you still need another 16 channels, then add another Mixdream.
    But, if you have the budget, get a Dangerous Master as well! and sum your Mixdream into that.

    DAW 1 > Orion 32 DA> Mixdream (master out) > Dangerous Master (master out)> uncoupled mastering AD> DAW2

    Connect all 3 analog stereo outs of this workflow to a Dangerous Monitor ST (3 input hybrid monitoring controller ) and you will have a world class hybrid mixing and mastering system.
     
  14. Namin

    Namin Active Member

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    Jan 22, 2017
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    New Delhi
    Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Chris! I have no money left now!!! But I am alert as an owl and a bat and a Falcon! It will take me some time, but I shall get it if you say so...Thank you Chris once again..
     
  15. Dykesh

    Dykesh Active Member

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    Dec 17, 2017
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    Tennessee
    Thank you all for this great information. I am setting up a 2 computer system to try this for my home studio. My question is: I do still need some type of analog summing Box to get away from the 2-bus DAW? I should just understand that analog summing by itself is not a magic bullet. I should hear more improvement by uncoupling the 2 computers and having no bounces? Thanks
     
  16. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    exactly
     
  17. Dykesh

    Dykesh Active Member

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    Dec 17, 2017
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    Does anyone have an opinion on just how expensive the 2 channel A/D conversion needs to be to get the full benefits of uncoupling? I am using a Metric Halo Lio-8 for tracking but I only have an Apogee Rosetta 200 (192kz) and an RME 9632 card. I am also thinking about summing inside the Metric Halo. Their software gives me 18 mono channels of summing in an 80 bit environment. I just don't want to buy an expensive summing box and not have good enough conversion. Thanks for any ideas

    I guess I am also asking: if we are converting at 44/16 bit, how much quality difference will there be from different priced converters?
     
  18. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    The 2 channel AD DA should be excellent. Try the Apogee Rosetta 200 (192kz), those are claimed to be decent.
     
  19. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    What summing boxes have you been looking at?
     
  20. Dykesh

    Dykesh Active Member

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    Dec 17, 2017
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Basically all the ones you guys have been looking at. I could go Folcrum and add another Micpre. I have API, Great River and Chandler (just not two of them). I could go with the 2-Bus plus. I like that it is transparent but has some color options. But that gets expensive and has no monitoring section. The Phoenix Audio Nicerizer looks like the best solution at the moment. I am also working on using the Metric Halo software to route different monitoring locations back to it and use the Lio-8 monitoring. Like having DAW2 monitoring coming back into channel 7 and 8 of the Lio and direct monitoring from there. Just trying to get my head wrapped around the least expensive way of doing this without sacrificing too much quality.

    Two bad there's not a summing box with a good built in 2 channel AD converter.
     

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