Any guesses about equipment used?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Jim stone, Dec 26, 2017.

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  1. Jim stone

    Jim stone Active Member

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    Hi everyone, I'm new to home recording. How does one go about getting the warmth, and clarity in the higher frequencies of vocals as heard in this session?
     
  2. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

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  3. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    Good call, Kurt.

    An adorable performance.

    Welcome Jim!

    Because we are a mixture of new recordists and professionals here, the pros will often chime in and add additional notes to help improve sound. I'll take a stab at that by saying this.

    I can't help but imagine how much better the AT 4047 and those two adorable performers would sound recorded in a properly treated room! That would be the first (affordable) step I would take to help improve the very alive and reflective sounding room. Maybe even a few gobo's would help? Anyone advise how you would go about softening the reflections in such a nice living room? Different mic possibly that wasn't so open?

    I'm also suspecting why the sss are particularity alive in this recording, after treating the room with some absorption, a better preamp and interface might also improve warmth to the sound.

    Other than that, very nice example of the two of them!
     
  4. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

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    I think it's a wonderful performance, though I'm hearing a lot of room reflection, because of their distances from the mic ... And it's a bit distracting to my ears...I'm also hearing what I feel is an additional reverb of some kind added in as well. ? I could be wrong about that but it sounds like it to me.
    I'd like to hear this with a more intimate guitar and vocal... But that doesn't mean they didn't perform very well.
    Kurt's call on the AT 4047 was great - I missed that guess, I thought the mic was a Neumann model.
    My eyes ain't what they used to be...lol.
    To answer your original question, good Sonic results are obtained by using good gear ( mics, pres, converters) and in a space that has been acoustically treated, at least to some degree.
    In this case, even something as simple as packing blankets hung on a few mic stands would have made a noticable difference in the amount of high end room reflections, and moving in closer to the mic would have helped, too.
    But yes, these two played and sang beautifully.
     
  5. paulears

    paulears Well-Known Member

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    I was struck by how clean and clinical it was - as I'd expect that mic to capture with all those hard surfaces in the room. To my taste, a bit thin and bright sounding - I'd not call it warm at all? Nice performances, and nice voice and instrument, but cold and brittle would be my description?
     
  6. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

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    Nice performance, mediocre engineering, terrible room acoustics.

    The AT4047 is a lovely microphone, but its main forte is in recording single sound sources, where it can be positioned so the source is on the centre axis of the microphone. Off axis, it starts to get a bit shrill, which I think is what Paul was picking up on, since the only thing on-axis in this clip are reflections off the back wall. In addition, the microphone is (unsurprisingly) positioned for the vocals, resulting in it rendering a disappointing sound for the guitar.

    What we don't know, of course, is the pre-amp used for this recording, as that can be the make or break of using a microphone in the AT4047 class. When it comes to processing the recorded track, there is definitely a stereo reverb added, and, in my opinion, it's considerably overdone. I wonder if it was in an attempt to disguise unpleasant room reflections?
     
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  7. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Distinguished Member

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    I would first like to address the question. Warmth and clarity are the most mis-used words in recording and many will kill good recordings trying to add them to their mix.
    There is so many thing we say about sound like silk highs or sweet etc.. it's like describing a sunset to a borned blind.
    What I'm trying to say is, it all starts with the source and the room. If a person has a deep voice, you'll get more warmth and if the person sounds nazal you won't... you get the point.
    Now choosing a mic is like a paint brush which will lay colors differently. The best mic for one may be the worst for another.

    As for the performance, I hear the well tuned notes and the good execution, but there isn't much emotion and soul.
    The girl singing almost the whole song in falseto isn't my cup of tea either. Now I'm not saying it's bad.. It's just that it doesn't reach me that much.

    One thing that bother's me is that I doubt the 4047 will give this much low end at this distance. Which leads me to think this may have been recorded in studio and the reverb is fake (a bad fake that is) and what we see might just be a post synchro. Even the sound of the guitar is off with the video, unless it's plugged in.
    I'd be glad to be corrected on this ;)

    So again with the question :
    Recording isn't about warmth and clarity, it starts with hear training and learning how to use the tools available to their max capacities.

    Just my humble opinion anyway...
     
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  8. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Distinguished Member

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    Oh and why on earth would you not use a tripod for the camera if you ain't going to move and change angles ?... camera shakes makes me dizzy.. ;)
     
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  9. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

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    See...you pick up on this stuff because you do such good work with your own videos. I don't know how long you've been doing video, we've never really talked about that... But it sure does seem like you've been doing it awhile...either that or you're just a natural at it, as I've said before.
    When I opened the video for the song, I was listening only, and didn't take any notice of the actual video one way or the other... Just goes to show, I don't have the eye for that detail that you do.
    I'm hoping I live enough years to see a major documentary or music video release from you, so I can point at the big screen and shout, "That's my pal Marco!!!". :)
     
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  10. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Distinguished Member

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    I started to do video at the end of 2014. I got the sense that people will ask more and more visual content and not just music.
    I'm still an amateur, but I think I get better with every new projects.
    To force me be more serious about it, I started a youtube channel and I try to post every 2-3 weeks. Hopefully, I may do more once I'm confident about my technique and quality. Of course it also forces me to practice my english speaking which is far from perfect ...

    My gift to myself this chrismas was 2 x 24 inches monitors made for video production. They are able to produce true 100% SRGB colors and Rec. 709 (which is the industry standard broadcast color space) BenQ BL2420PT
     
  11. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

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    I am gonna go subscribe to your YT channel right now, and I encourage all the other RO members to do the same. Hold one sec...and...3-2-1...subscribed!!
    I understand you consider yourself to be fairly new to video, but IMO, you do a great job, even better than some "pro" videos I've seen.
    Just sayin' ;)
     
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  12. paulears

    paulears Well-Known Member

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    I've put a link here to our band - In the summer I run a seasonal theatre - mostly comedy and original bands and tributes - So I put in a sound system and lighting - and we run from end of May to October - a bizarre thing happened and we got an enquiry in for our tribute band and when this happens, Ian, who is my sound man in the theatre and myself, take the day off, and put people in our place. We got the band job, said yes we could do it, agreed the date and then discovered it was for two shows at our own theatre! Seemed a good idea to shoot some video - as we do video work alongside our sound and lighting stuff. Trouble was we only had one of our crew spare who could be a cameraman - so I dotted go pros around, and stuck static cameras in convenient places. Steady shots, but dreadfully dull to watch. We use a behringer X32 for the band, and I hung my mac on it and recorded the individual channels. We thicken all the vocal mics with short delays left and right, so the effects can come out of the desk too quite easily. In the edit - virtually all the camera movement our spare crew member did was hopeless, he just couldn't do it - so most of his shots get used static too - there's one zoom I think and he jerks that one too.

    vimeo.com/247181982

    It's password protected - use brit.

    being very honest - we're a terrible band to video because we all sing and are stuck behind mics stands most of the time. The difference that proper camera work makes is extreme - steady and well thought out camera movement could have really helped in this video. As it is - without decent camera ops we had to guess so much what the shots would look like - loads of the material we shot was unusable - lights into the lens, people in the way, cameras falling over or getting knocked. However - while we have the gear, we rarely shoot bands on our own stage because the cost are too high. 4 real camera ops would make getting usable images quite easy, but the expense of the people is a real problem - it's often more than the band get!
     
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  13. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Distinguished Member

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    Nice video Paul
    Get a few dancers on stage to get movement and you got a solid party ! ;)
     
  14. paulears

    paulears Well-Known Member

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    You made me think - Niles Rogers does that, doesn't he - or rather just gets people up from the audience to boogie around a bit.

    I'm firmly now of the opinion that when we look at videos, like the one that start this topic, we're increasingly guilty of judging it firstly on what it looks like, not sounds like - which should be wrong, but often isn't!
     
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  15. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    I rarely judge music by video. Video killed the radio and MTV destroyed live music imho. So, I am listening and usually blank out the video when it comes to music. Our eyes play tricks on us. But, I suspect my video critiquing will improve as I am now entering into the world of A/V.
     
  16. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Distinguished Member

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    Or if you think it's not safe enough, hire local dance students. Won't cost much and it give a different vibe to your show! We did that on a disco review a few years back.
    Getting a sitting crowd to step up and dance is easy when it's happening on stage ;)
    The promotter was impressed to see that and said it was the first time in this venue !

    BTW, your show is very nice. you don't have to change anything. Take this as an idea to try as a different thing ;)
     
  17. paulears

    paulears Well-Known Member

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    Maybe that's the answer - a bit of audience participation - trouble is three of us have grey hair, one doesn't and guess who gets all the attention? Annoying!
     
  18. Jim stone

    Jim stone Active Member

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    Thank you, everyone for your replies. This forum is invaluable to a guy like me , who is trying to set up a bedroom recording studio, within a fairly low budget.
     
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  19. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

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    Man they've got the gain way up on that! The AT4047 is a GREAT mic. Especially good on intimate and up-on-the-grill vocals. All the problems exhibited in this have been hit on. It's got some edgy pointy highs due to the off-axis response from this mic and the room is really hard. Nice performance. Like Chris I don't watch the videos since most of them give me sea-sickness with the movement or jitter.
     
  20. Chris Perra

    Chris Perra Active Member

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    To me that is a reverb added after... Lot's of compression on that mic..
     

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