ATH M40fs vs ATH M50

Discussion in 'Microphones (live or studio)' started by New Guy, Feb 23, 2013.

  1. New Guy

    New Guy Guest

    Audio Technica
    I know these headphones have been highly reviewed and such, but I am still unsure which I should get.
    Main goal is to get the flattest, most natural sound.
    There is a frequency response chart for the M50, but I can't find a graph for the M40, so I have to go by reviews.[]=1513&graphID[]=1473&graphID[]=533
    Which appears flattest in the above chart?

    The M50 is said to be flat, but with a tad bit too much low end.
    The M40 is said to be flat, but some say the mid's are a bit high.

    I need the headphones to hear vocals. I think vocals are mainly crucial in the mid and high end so would the M50's be most accurate for hearing the most realistic vocals?
    I know I sort of answered my own question, but just looking for professional advice.

    Plus saving $60 getting the M40 over the M50 would be nice. But natural sound is more important.
    I can get the M40fs for $65 new over the M50 for $120 new. So just about double. But if the M50 is really worth it over the half-cost M40 I will get them.
    Can anyone graph the M40fs on frequency response?

    By the way, I am using a Focusrite Scarlette 2i2 USB interface. Will the built-in headphone amp be enough to use either? The M40fs is 60 ohms while the M50 is 32 ohms. Not sure how this works out yet. I don't know if or when headphones would require a seperate amp. So this is also a big decisive factor for me.
  2. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Member

    Sep 26, 2005
    OK there New Guy... have you ever used this brand of headphones before? If not what were you using? You want the flattest best? I wouldn't waste my time with those. Sennheiser! Get the open air ones. Now these are difficult to use when overdubbing. That's what the $20 ones are for. If you want to use as reference headphone monitors for mixing and tracking, you want open air like these. I have been using these HD 414 Sennheiser headphones and KOSS Pro 4 AA and all of the newer permutations thereafter. And I pretty much use nothing but Sennheiser today. I thought the SHURE headphones they've introduced might also be quite worthy? But really, I have found not much terribly all that attractive about anything AT. Good functional utilitarian stuff. Good bang for the buck. But I only want my Sennheiser's. Today I'm still using a pair of 13-year-old HD 545's. Can't afford the new ones. These work just fine as do my other numerous different pairs spanning the 40 years plus.

    Of course some swear by AKG. They send good. Not my favorites. Lots of folks jump on the Sony's. I've always found those artificial sounding to me. Not the Sennheiser's. Some folks like Grado's. Another one that's too metallic for me.

    But asking about headphones is like asking what your favorite pair of underwear is. They just won't know until they try yours. And you know that just ain't right. You're asking about a 100% no make that 200% subjective question. I mean is it better to be right-handed or left-handed? Blonde or brunette? I can tell you I burn very quickly in the sun. So sometimes you really have to be careful on those all-day festivals. That's why I like a truck with a Control Room & Air Conditioning.

    Headphone amplifiers and most of this equipment has improved at least to the 1 or 2 W level LOL to deliver signal to the headphones. There was some folks might like to have a little more power? But that's already enough to deafen you. Many of these headphone circuits include current limiting resistors to keep you from destroying your hearing. It's amazing what kind of damage you can do to yourself if you take those resistors out. And if ya have no resistors at all, you don't need anything more than 2 W. So if ya have a 10 W amplifier you're golden. One mistake and everybody is deaf, forever. Yup, almost found that out the hard way around 14. But when I designed and built headphone systems, they all utilized 30-60 W per channel amplifiers. And where the distribution and the resistors in the headphone boxes would knock down the current drive to more than adequate rock 'n roll levels.

    Amory headphones going to have both a different impedance value from each manufacturer and each one will operate at a different efficiency level. So this can become confusing when you know the amplifiers rated at 8 ohms. Some headphones are that. Some 300 ohms. 600 ohms. 1000 ohms. 60 ohms you name it they've made it. And that's really not much of a concern on most of the newer equipment because they have lessened the value of the current limiting resistor's. So they'll drive anything and everything. It'll be different plugging into old $60 cassette decks from different manufacturers. Then they won't blow out a candle much less a gastric methane overload. But the new stuff is built with folks like you in mind. They already know you want to do yourself damage and are happy to oblige you. Just remember every headphone is going to have a different efficiency operating level. So even if you have two different models of headphones by the same manufacturer as you have seen, different impedance may or may not transfer to a different level and then again it might? A lot of this has to do with the thickness of the wire that is used for the coil and the diameter, circumference, length. You just have to plug it in and find out. It's going to be different on every amplifier

    Let's face it, generally the more it costs the better it is. Where does it end? Sure I love the best models. I can't afford the best models. So I have to live with a couple models down. Yes I know, I've heard the difference. And it can be huge. Doesn't matter can't afford it. Have to use what you've got and ya better like it because ya married it.

    Mx. Remy Ann David
  3. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

    Nov 25, 2012
    Akron/Cleveland, OH
    Home Page:
    My friend Remy and I will have to agree to disagree here.

    I have the M40's and as far as frequency response, they are probably the best cans I've ever used.
    I'm not a fan of mixing through cans... any cans...But if I had to, I could use the M40's, and I'm confident that the translation would be pretty close, or at least close enough if I knew the inherent characteristics and could counter them...not unlike what engineers do with NS10's.

    I also like the Senns, btw. Not a fan of AKG's for anything other than tracking. Back when I had my studio, I managed to finnagle a sponsorship with AKG for awhile, I knew the local rep at the time, and I was able to get 6 pair of the K 240's for about $10 ea. We used them for tracking only, and unless it was a situation where the drummer needed a very hot click, they worked fine, but I would never think to mix through them - I didn't find them accurate enough to do so - either because of the frequency response on those older models, or because of their open design, I didn't find them sonically accurate enough to mix.

    Now...If you are going to find yourself wearing HP's for extended periods of time, then open cans would probably be a lot more comfortable than the M40's, or other models that are sealed.

    When I was 18, I had ear surgery - on both ears - to remove cartilege that was growing over my inner ear, the procedure was very painful - that was over 35 years ago and my ears will still hurt if applied pressure on them for too long. So, for as much as I prefer the sonics of the M40's, if I wear them for too long I do start feeling it.

  4. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Member

    Sep 26, 2005
    Well ya know Donny, I had brain surgery for some severe excess water pressure on the inside of my cranium pushing out. And when I would wear those Pro 4 AA's or the Sennheiser HD 280's, I was getting all of this incredible pressure on the outside pushing towards the inside. It was amazing that I could mix any recordings on headphones that were sealed at all LOL. At some point your gray matter becomes one with the headphones.

    Actually a fairly comfortable pair, but provides also for a nice usable listening experience are the Beyers. Finding single unit ear cups with a microphone coming down from it in front of the sportscasters faces are quite common. And everybody on the crew are wearing them all day long. And when you have to wear something like that for an entire day, you need comfort and quality. And they'll cost you a fair deal. The nice thing is... they been making these same models for many years and there are plenty of repair and replacement parts available. And that's true of a lot of the finer headphones. Sennheiser's were quite modular easy to repair and maintain. It's what you need for these industrial applications. Otherwise ya will be bearing the burden of having to replace them every couple of months.

    You always want a couple of decent headphones for yourself and for important other folks. But then ya have a whole basket full of cheap cans. Any manufacturer, any year, any model. And you don't always do aesthetically pleasing looking repairs and wiring. You need to make it rugged. They get beat to death. Don't use expensive headphones on the band members unless you want them destroyed quickly. There is a difference here. Some are like fine monitors. Others are for that battery-operated boombox you take with you to the beach. Something you don't really care much about it that gets broke. Because it will get broke, guaranteed. And so when the flimsy wires on the cheap cans go bad, within the first week, cut them off and throw them out. Then ya go get some zip cord a.k.a. 2 conductor electrical cord going from your clock radio to be wall outlet a.k.a. ZIP code. Your choice of decorator colors white beige Brown Black. You'd tape them down with batches of soft vinyl electrical tape. And when they finally get crushed and broken beyond repair that's when they go into that bigger can. So ya never want to spend more than $20 each for studio headphones for the musicians. You certainly could if you are the only musician. Or your girlfriend or best friend. But when you start Tracking for other bands, you'll be amazed at how fast the best ones break. And that can get a little disheartening. These good headphones are not cheap and a lot of these people are just plain morons. Those nice advisors of mine somebody asked if they could hear them. Being a nice person I am I said sure. He realize they were rather tight. So I took him off his head and he splayed them out until he snapped the headband in two. I was not happy. I was on location job. Good thing I know is pack backups and backups to backups and even that doesn't work sometimes. Suddenly that special adapter is missing. Oh no Mr. Bill no stop Mr. Bill. And then they're broke.

    Gentlemen! (With warbling echoes and reverb) START YOUR SOLDERING IRONS!
    Mx. Remy Ann David
  5. New Guy

    New Guy Guest

    Thanks for the input guys. I have just come across the KRK KNS 6400 and the KRK KNS 8400 headphones.
    They seem great for mixing with. Although they are not really mentioned when searching for mixing headphones. I think that's jsut because they are sort of in the shadows, no one really heard of them.

    So now I have come to my top 5, that I am looking to buy for the best, closest mix.
    ATH M50 (found a used pair for $90 or $120 new, used pair is probably already sold)
    ATH M40fs ($60 new, half the cost of the M50)
    Sennheiser HD 280 Pro (found a used one for $60, or new for $100)
    KRK KNS 6400 ($90 new)
    KNS 6400 Studio Headphones KRK SYSTEMS
    KRK KNS 8400 ($100 used, new is about $130)
    KNS 8400 Studio Headphones KRK SYSTEMS

    If you can please, give me your suggestion for the best one I can use for mixing ASAP. I am looking to buy ASAP.

    Donny, I know you said the M40 is the one you would use to mix if you had to. Have you also used or heard of the others I have listed. Still go with the M40 even over the M50?
    Can't find a frequency response curve graph of the M40, but I hear the M50 can be a bit bass heavy and the M40 does have smaller drivers so the bass probably is more flat, so the M40 does sound better for mixing. But I am not completely sure.

    Now the KRK 6400 looks very flat too me, in fact flatter than all. The KRK 8400 seems much more bass heavy to me in the graph.
    Graph below comparing my picks. Which looks flattest freq curve to you?[]=1473&graphID[]=533&graphID[]=2951&graphID[]=2961

    And for the Sennheiser 280pro, they are noise-cancelling, is that feature that causes distortion able to be disable just by not putting batteries in?
    Comfort is not too much of a big deal for me. Although if the Senns are tight as most people say, I would probably hope to get one of the others.

    Now all of these are over the ear, closed back headphones. I read that makes the sound boxy, is that really bad/hard to use to mix with?
    Still seems everyone uses these for mixing.

    Good enough mixing monitors are out of my budget and my room is not very acoustic treated, so I have to work with the best mixing cans I can get.
    I know I will have to test the mixes on numerous sources, this is all I can work with for a long while before I can get a decent set of monitors.

    Right now I am strongly suggesting M50, KRK 6400, and the M40fs.
  6. SteveMilner

    SteveMilner Active Member

    Feb 25, 2013
    Washington DC
    I currently own two pairs of the M40's and a single pair of M50's ... amongst many other sets of cans. I typically take the M40's on live work, mixing monitors & FOH in loud live environments, while I favor the M50's for tracking and getting mixes started. The biggest reason I do this is simply a practical one... the M40's get loud, have enough detail and seem to translate well to live systems. They also can be left turned up on a cue bus, without worrying about trashing them if I inadvertently cue something like a kick drum while I'm not wearing them. The M50's are my go-to for broadcast work, tracking & general recording and mixing, when I'm using my own gear.
    My Beyer DT100, AKG240, Sony 7506 cans all get left at home these days, unless I'm just in the mood for a change.
    When I am forced to actually complete a mix on cans, which doesn't happen too often as I typically start mixing on cans and then get onto proper monitors once things are roughed in, I rely on UltraSone cans (the Pro650). The UltraSone are fantastic cans, but I would not choose to spend that kinda money on a set of cans, if they are going to be your only set. The M50's are more versatile in my experience.

    The M50's are a great set of cans for the money, and can absolutely work for mixing, as long as you take the time to learn how your mixes on them translate to other monitors etc. much like any other monitoring device... what you get out of them, is directly related to how much time you spend understanding what they are giving you.
  7. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Member

    Sep 26, 2005
    You seem to be a little goofed up? 280 Sennheiser headphones are not noise canceling. So obviously you really don't know what you're looking at or what you want? So this is how it goes...

    You really only have two choices when it comes to headphones. Open back/open-air headphones are not sealed headphones. With nothing playing and your headphones on, you'll be able to hear most everything around you, normally. Open air headphones will translate better to speakers, when you have to rely on a pair of cans, for mixing purposes.

    The other type of headphone provides a seal, because there is no open air allowing for sound to come in from the outside and escape from the headphones into microphones. You use these types in noisy environments. This does not mean they are "noise canceling". Noise canceling headphones are something else altogether. Many so-called noise canceling headphones are BS headphones, it's gimmick nonsense. Some other nonsense word they can use for their marketing and advertising purposes for folks like yourself because you obviously have very little experience with headphones? And these particular types of headphones do usually sit on your head rather tightly. And because its air is allowed to pass into or out from headphones, they will provide less isolation. And a good tight fitting pair of sealed back headphones, is all you want to use in a noisy environment. Some noise canceling headphones actually include active circuitry from external microphones on the headphones to the earphones themselves. It does this in opposite phase so us to help use phase cancellation to reduce exterior noise levels. And you don't want or need to use those kinds of headphones at all. Those are for listening enjoyment and/or to be able to read your book quietly in a noisy environment without the headphones being plugged into anything. So they have to be battery powered to do this and it's a BS process. It's feeding you noise into your headphones in order for the external noise to be canceled by the opposite phasing of the amplified noise. While it works, it's idiotic marketing nonsense that has brought these particular types about. Because there is a sucker born every minute.

    So if I have to mix something live, in a noisy environment, a nice pair of tight Sennheiser 280's sound quite nice. But it's really much more difficult to mix anything with sealed back headphones designed primarily for noisy environments and overdub purposes to prevent the sound from the headphones getting into the microphone.

    So you really need a pair of headphones. One that is open air. One that has a sealed back. You're talking about something being low-frequency heavy, designed for morons that just want to hear boom boom bass frequencies. And then the superbright and super brittle sounding types to make you think they are so clean and natural sounding. And none of this nonsense counts or makes any difference if you have not yet heard the headphones or compare them to other known source items such as other popular groups on CDs.

    When ya say translate well to speakers, whose speakers? This is a complete non sequitur and if you don't know what speakers you are using an expect some willy-nilly selected headphones to sound like some speakers you don't have yet. It's like if you have blue eyes should and your brothers and sisters also have blue eyes? Well, they don't necessarily all have blue eyes. I have blue eyes and my brother has brown. So who has the better eyes? And whose eyes will translate better when you are painting a picture? See that's a complete non sequitur. So is your descriptive confused and poorly informed technical decision-making regarding headphones. And headphones are like clothing. They might fit? They might not fit if you don't try them on first.

    And so any types of headphones that you purchase? You must first be intimate with your monitor speakers, whatever you have. And then you put on the headphones with the same signal source material. How does that translate and relate to what you're hearing from your speakers? And that's your speakers. Not someone else's. Not some other pair of headphones. Your monitor speakers. And if those are crap? What should your headphones sound like? And then why would you even want your headphones to translate well to crappy monitor speakers? So I want to get a new used car. Should I get the one with the dent on the left front fender or the one with the right rear quarter panel dent? And what would translate well to a Mercedes-Benz 1117 truck? And where all of this, of course, makes no sense whatsoever. Because any used car you purchase with the dent is only going to translate well to another car with a dent. And it will not look like nor sound like a new car. Then you won't be able to expect that kind of performance you would get from a car without a dent which is called self respect. Probably not as good as a car without a dent. And believe you me, this will not be your last pair of headphones you purchase. It's your first pair. And many of us have owned dozens of different headphones before we settle in with a pair we find we can work well with. And you're nowhere near that mark. Right now you are at the stage of " look mommy I went poopy all by myself". And that stuff is all over the toilet. And you've got a big mess to clean up while congratulating your kid for smearing his fecal matter all over the toilet. And that's currently wear your decision-making lies. It's in what you wear LOL. As opposed to where? On your head! Which seems to be obvious enough without having to read the instructions how to use headphones. Yeah you wear them on top of your head. Sideways on top of your ears. Not on your nose and the back of your head, which will make your monitoring all the more difficult. Because remixes might appear to lean more to the left. Your other left. No... that's your bellybutton. The other left. I mean do you put your pants on backwards so it's easier to take a poop? After all that's the side of your pants you want open. So why would you want the opening on the front? Shouldn't pants have zippers in the front and the back? Because I've heard the one with the zippers in the back provide for more low-end? And I would imagine that would be true? So would that be better? Well sure it would. Go try to find a pair of pants with zippers in the front and the back. You might find a used pair on eBay for $25? And what sense does that make? This is a non sequitur until you have done it all. We've all told you what we use and why and how we use them. Make a decision already. Buy a pair of headphones. Don't like them? That's why God created eBay and craigslist. And then ya can start the process all over again.

    Let's face it, good headphones for mixing purposes that are open-air cost many hundreds of dollars each. Anything less is everything less. Then you can only go down so far until you have crap. And in your price range you are talking crap. Well not totally crap but certainly not the best of anything. So $100 gets you a decent pair but certainly not the best pair. The pair of open air Sennheiser's I use were like $245. And that was 13 years ago so the price is likely to be higher today. And that was not their finest model. It was like second to their finest at the time. And when you find a pair that looks like they are new for $10 at a flea market, you know they're stolen. Thank goodness I didn't have to pay $245 and instead only had to pay $10. And then I bought all of her other headphones she had also being sold for $10 each. And there's no way any of these headphones that were like new should have gone for $10 each. So ya know this lovely Jamaican lady at the flea market had a lovely Jamaican son that probably acquired those headphones for her to sell that fell out of a truck. Yeah a truck that used to have its door closed before entry was forced. And I don't make a point to purchase stolen equipment. But that was a flea market and you could not test the headphones. So it was only a $10 gamble these things have not been blown out. They were new. Perfect. All of them. So go peruse your flea markets, you never know what you might catch? And it won't necessarily be the flea's. And where and when I have to record and mix on most anything, I will. But not until I listened to at least a couple of my reference CDs first.

    It's also known that sealed back headphones create a false low-end, that makes mixing with them all the more difficult. Then you're likely to get recordings that are extremely heavy sounding and the low-end and everything sounds like mud on speakers. And where you're less likely to have that problem with a pair of open air headphones. So ya have to know what you want and what you need before you make your purchases. In addition to what kind of sound you want to hear. And ya can't make that decision by just asking others questions. These are the answers I have given you that you need to base your purchase decision criteria upon. But that's all it is. So my suggestion to you is that you purchase a pair of Hanes nylon stretch panties with the cotton crotch as opposed to the Fruit of the Loom cotton undies that don't stretch. So which pair of ladies panties should you be wearing?

    Hanes work better for me. Get the red ones because the sound better when you drop your jeans in front of your boyfriend. Nothing terribly exciting about those white cotton thingamajigs. They are just pure and clean without any coloration or skidmarks. But I like color. And it's not brown. And white is not a color neither is black. Yet they both seem to do the same job quite well under different circumstances. We're in some circumstances it might involve your boyfriend. And in other circumstances it doesn't. So that's maybe where you would wear the white ones but if ya like them to add a little more excitement in those special circumstances, you'd want the colored ones.

    I didn't know you didn't wear any underwear? You naughty girl.
    Mx. Remy Ann David
  8. New Guy

    New Guy Guest

    Steve, since you own both pairs of these, which would you say has the truest sound/ flattest response curve? I hear the M50 can have a bit much bass while the M40 may have a bit much in mids. What do you think would be most accurate if you had to mix with one or the other?


    Remy, you sure are something else. Haha, thanks for the help guys.
  9. SteveMilner

    SteveMilner Active Member

    Feb 25, 2013
    Washington DC
    The problem with that question, is the answer is that neither are as honest as they could be. The Ultrasone 650s approach flat to my ears, but are still no substitute for good monitors in a properly tuned environment. The 50's sound a bit hi-fi to me, hyped a bit in the low end. The 40's are a bit more aggressive sounding, if I had to define it somehow. I wouldn't typically complete a project on either without referencing in a proper /known environment though.

    I choose the 50's for recording work mostly, as stated previously. Rough mixing, editing, automation passes etc.
  10. New Guy

    New Guy Guest

    Well, just bumped into another possible mixing headphone. The Superlux HD 681, really cheap at $30 new. The are said to be very flat, although a slight high in the treble.
    Check for yourself. There are the superlux HD 668, but they seem to not be as neutral.[]=1473&graphID[]=533&graphID[]=2951&graphID[]=3311

    The Superlux headphones are semi-open backed so they might help a bit from coloring the lows compared to closed backs, which is good for accurate mixing?
    What do you think between all the suggested.

    There are also the Sony V6 or 7506. And possibly the AKG 240.
    I gotta take a break from researching for a moment. Haha.
  11. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Member

    Sep 26, 2005
    Yeah yeah buy the Sennheiser's. You're going to get what you pay for, believe me. $30 right, check. You're out of your mind. If you want a good pair of headphones it's going to run you from $100 up to $800. Everything below that is toying with crap. Ya like to play with poop? You're going to be. We are giving you answers and you're giving us answers. Can you hear yourself? Obviously not. We're not going to give you our approval over a pair of crap $30 headphones, get it? You can talk all you want about their advertising and marketing BS. It's BS. It's like those late-night TV commercials telling you how much money you can make by buying and flipping homes. Just than $300 for the lessons on CDs along with this workbook and you'll be rich overnight. And you think that is true? Or how about those advertisements making sure you can keep it up for your girlfriend? You're under 30 and that shouldn't be a problem. You're under 40 in that shouldn't be a problem. You're under 50 and it's not too much of a problem. You're under 60 and could you please smear some more suntan lotion on my back honey?

    Don't keep asking questions if you're not going to listen. You're not selling us on crap headphones. How many years and they've been around or should I say how many months? They're so popular no one has ever heard of them, they're so great. And because they are so expensive non-of us can afford them LOL. I throw these things out every couple of weeks. Because that's all they last in the studio when heavy-handed rock and rollers get their pizza and fried chicken fingers all over them.

    Is this for you personal? Or are these studio cans? You would purchase those $30 units as studio cans. Because that's all they are. Purchase the Sennheiser's ya get a bag of five for $100. HD 202's. Bottom of the line and still sound adequate.

    The good ones you need for mixing well... they're not cheap. Not by a long shot. Not even close to being cheap. And if you're going to only mix with headphones, I can guarantee that your mixes are going to sound like crap for some years to come until ya get a pair of powered monitor speakers of a reasonable professional grade quality. Because you'll have nothing to compare your headphone mixes to. And I can tell you right now it's going to sound like mud on just about everything you play it on. Guaranteed. It doesn't matter who makes it or what model. Mixing on headphones requires that you mix on speakers first and compare the headphones to the speakers. It really doesn't work the other way around.

    Many times and for many events and occasions, I've had to record and mix strictly through headphones. And I know my headphones as well as I know every part of my body. And I know how they relate to my multiple pairs of monitor speakers. Yet even for myself who's been doing this for over 40 years, it is still extremely difficult to get a mix on headphones that translates well to speakers. And there's always going to be something screwed up about it sounding.

    Headphones actually let you hear a whole lot of things that will never be heard coming out of the speakers. Headphones can make you fixate like you've never fixated before LOL. And then every other pair of headphones you try will sound better than the previous ones and your mixes will still be all screwed up. Guaranteed. Why you think that it recording engineers don't do everything with headphones on? In fact they do very little with headphones on. You might check your mix with headphones on? You might do your overdubs with headphones on. Although not necessarily when I work with you LOL because I'll be blaring the rhythm tracks through the studio speakers and screwing up the recording completely with all that bleed and leakage. And then I'll remove it. And you won't have to wear any headphones. Much more comfortable that way ya know. String, brass, percussionists and Woodwind instrumentalists, love working with me because I don't make anybody wear headphones in the studio. And the studio monitors are playing quite loudly. The microphones have no problems picking up the studio speakers as much as they are picking up the violin section, the Woodwind section. And when you play those tracks back individually, it sounds really horrible! No doubt about that LOL. But that's not how it's mixed. I have developed very specific recording techniques in which to work this way, flawlessly. Many of these musicians have asked me why other studio cats don't do what I do? I tell them I can't fix stupid. And most engineers think I'm daft for doing what I do. The musicians don't feel that way. They love me. And I'm getting the best performance from them that they don't deliver at any other studio for anyone else.

    So how do I make it right when everything is wrong with those tracks? Is there a plug-in for that? Is there an app for that? No way in hell! It's a phase cancellation trick. It requires multiple passes be performed. It requires that not one microphone is touched. Not even touched. I have the stands taped to the floor. Because if one of the many microphones moves even one quarter of an inch, nothing works! So ya better be pretty knowledgeable how to do something like this before even trying to do something like this. I never even tried it out beforehand. I knew what would work because I have the experience to know that. And that's choosing of headphones you're going through is not going to be the last pair of headphones you purchase. Purchase a good pair of Sennheiser's and be done with it. Get the open air versions and get the one that costs the most of what you can afford. Learn those. Mix and record with those. Then you can choose another brand and see how that works for ya? I can almost guarantee you'll keep going back to that pair of Sennheiser's. You get a pair of HD 280's when ya have to do this in a noisy environment such as a nightclub with a live band and your 10 feet from the band and the PA speakers. Otherwise you use the open-air ones that are not partially open air but are open air. Because partial only says to me it is some kind of gimmick hack design if it is any kind of design at all? Maybe it was just something pretty presented to them by some other obscure Taiwanese manufacturer? And then those great specifications are so compelling you've got a have it. And then they got your money. And you have a pair of crap headphones with great advertising specifications. And you'll be able to convince yourself how good they are because of the printed nonsense blather. And that's an important placebo effect that actually works. So you can get good with crap headphones. Then you won't know what to do when ya get a pair of really fine headphones like Sennheiser's? So don't start at the bottom. I don't want to use anything else, personally, other than Sennheiser's. And they also feature a plethora of spare parts for each and every one of their headphones going years back.

    Make a decision already.
    Mx. Remy Ann David
  12. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

    Nov 25, 2012
    Akron/Cleveland, OH
    Home Page:
    someone isn't reading all the answers. ;)

    Look... we've all answered your questions the best that we could - with the caveat that you really shouldn't use headphones for mixing, it's just not your best way to go.

    Yes. I said that if I HAD to mix through cans, I could probably do so using the M40's, but I didn't say that I bought them for that reason.

    That being said, if you must go that route, you really need to steer clear of "budget" in this situation.

    You're gonna get what you pay for, unless you stumble upon some jackpot-lucky scenario and find a great deal on something used that's very nice.


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