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Bad vocal tracking in my "treated" room

Discussion in 'Microphones (live or studio)' started by az35000, Jun 22, 2020.

  • AT5047

    The New AT5047 Premier Studio Microphone Purity Transformed

  1. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    3.4m X 3.3m X 2.7m .... 11 ' 1" x 10' 7" x 8' 8" ... roughly. is the 3.4 the height?
     
  2. az35000

    az35000 Active Member

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    Jun 22, 2020
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    france
    no the height is 2.7 m .....8'8''
     
  3. paulears

    paulears Well-Known Member

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    What would really help is a proper recording of your voice reading. As in like a voiceover, then a pitched singing something with light and shade rather than a fast shirt clip that we heard. Voice text be from speaking reveals the room a lot and we’ve not really heard very much.
     
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  4. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    i was mistaken in saying the room is too small. we Americans are metric challenged. :LOL: but the 8.8 foot ceiling is a problem. the only thing worse than a 9 foot ceiling is an 8 foot one. this is partially because 8 foot places the actual physical null or node at 4 foot which is exactly where your ears are when sitting. from what i've heard from your very short clip, the room sounds like you have over done the absorption. are you mixing in the same room or is it a vox booth only? the answer will dictate the way to proceed. if you are mixing in the room then place absorption in the 4 corners as traps and on the wall behind the speakers. then have an assistant take a mirror and move it along the side walls while you sit at the mixing position. anywhere you see the reflections of the speakers, place absorption. i guess a cloud over the mixing position would help but if the floor is carpeted it may be too much. you may need to place some absorption on the wall behind the mixing position to attenuate flutter echo.

    if you are using the room as a vocal booth i would treat it with an acoustic slat wall treatment.

    upload_2020-6-25_7-25-20.jpeg
     
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  5. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Well-Known Member

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    Some Iso boot are sold with very small dimentions. My recording room is 11*10 feet with 7 ceilling. 2 corners are converted in bass traps, tick carpet, foam on the ceilling, sonopans on the surface of the walls.. pretty dead space. But I'm able to do good recording in it. Drums, guitars vocals, violins. . . for me since the room is dead, I need to chose the right mic and placement for each jobs and I'm quite successfull at it.
    There is so many DIY videos to do bass traps.. I'd start with only those and remove anything that affect only high frequencies.. (exemple thin foams or similar)
    Once the room problems are resolved, your in for a mic / vocal matching game. You need to try as many as you can with your voice and chose the right one for you.
    They all say the Sm7B is the best.. but not for everyone...
    For exemple in condensers.
    U47 inspired mics and capsules are giving rounder bottom and less HF (perfect for sibilant or nazal voices)
    C12 inspired mics and capsules give a boost in the HF, (perfect for darker voices)
    U87 Inspired mics are more balanced sounding.. great starting point for any voices, but not ideal for all..
     
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  6. az35000

    az35000 Active Member

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    Jun 22, 2020
    Location:
    france
    OK paulears I will send a longest audio with me talking and singing . but i can already say that i have less room reflections when i talk than when i scream.
     
  7. az35000

    az35000 Active Member

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    Jun 22, 2020
    Location:
    france
    -Very interesting information .

    -the room is for mixing and a vox booth .but i guess its too different things when its comes to acoustic treatement. but it s will be really useful to do mixing and tracking in the same space .

    -I already have absorption (47'2 X 23'6 X 2') behind speakers and cloud over mixing position and in mirroring position at my left . and i have a wardrobe with curtains at my right so no treatement there.
    the floor is covered with linoleum.

    it's look like diffusion treatement isn'it ?
     
  8. az35000

    az35000 Active Member

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    Jun 22, 2020
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    france
    it's keep hope to know that with small room as me ,you have nice recording :)

    yes i think that basstrap will resolve a big part of the problem.

    I have a condenser ( rode nt1 but same problem than the SM7B with a bit more reflections) . and i cant buy all this mic with my little budget . anyway you are right mics are not for all voices.
     
  9. az35000

    az35000 Active Member

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    france
    so there is a longest audio with some talking and singing, waiting for your feedback :)

     

    Attached Files:

  10. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

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    Slat absorbers trap bass, but preserve the life in the mids and highs.
     
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  11. paulears

    paulears Well-Known Member

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    I'm going out on a limb here. I don't hear much 'room' sound at all, but odd things are happening when the levels perk up. The sound seems to become harder, and thinner as the volume goes up, and SM7Bs (I have one here) don't do this. In fact they tend to sound nicer when pushed. Looking at the waveform displays the harmonic content is quite high. You mentioned
    Is this recording via this chain? I wonder if the problem is simply that the tube simulation is way too high, and as valves traditionally had higher levels of harmonic distortion, the plugin is not enhancing, but destroying the quality of your fine mic and preamp. Have you tried recording totally unprocessed? I'm a fan of adding these as effects afterwards, and certainly not recording with them enabled and never having a dry copy to experiment with.

    I'm also wondering if the extra amplification from the FET Head is making it worse? Have you tried going direct from the mic to the Apollo? I'm just so surprised at the sound being so unlike my SM7B which I rarely use because it is too warm and lacking sparkle. SO many people decree extra gain is required. I never find gain an issue with mine at all - on all the interfaces I have here. I can do voice overs and of course sing into it without gain/noise being an issue.

    I'd suggest dumping the gizmos and recording direct to the interface with no plugins - just mic - interface - DAW-press record! I suspect this will solve the weird sound you've got. Excess gain causing excess harmonics. SM7B mics just don't sound like that!
     
  12. az35000

    az35000 Active Member

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    Jun 22, 2020
    Location:
    france
    for this record there is no preamp simulation ,it s just the SM7B the fethead and soundcard ( apollo twin preamp) .

    You said that my sm7B sound thinner and harder as the volume goes ? do you think that i have an issue with the mic itself?

    in my case i also hear reflections when volume goes up .

    my sm7B need more gain without fethead ( about 60 db) and with the fethead i need just 29 db) ,anyway i already try without the fethead and the difference is so subtile.

    as I said earlier I didn't and I never use effects or plugins when it comes to test mic or soundcard.

    Good at least I know that my sm7B dont sound as a SM7B now :)

    :eek:)
     
  13. az35000

    az35000 Active Member

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    france
    thank you Kmetal for the advice i will take it in consideration.
     
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  14. paulears

    paulears Well-Known Member

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    Yes - but the question is why? What kind of distance are you working at? Do you have any other microphones - I think you mentioned a Rode, but the problem was there with that too. This only leaves the interface if you are not using the plugins. The FET removal made a subtle change?

    It could be acoustics, I don't know. Do you have a pic of how you are using the mics?
     
  15. az35000

    az35000 Active Member

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    Jun 22, 2020
    Location:
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    -my position: too close to the mic without touching de pop filter .
    -the fet removal make the sm7b a litte bite noisy cause of the preamp gain up to 60 db.
    -with the rode i have the same reflections problem. but the tiny just when i m using the SM7B
     
  16. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    i wonder what if you move the mic three feet one way or the other and then redo the test? would the charts look any different? i'm also thinking being in the corner isn't a real good thing. :rolleyes:
     
  17. az35000

    az35000 Active Member

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    Jun 22, 2020
    Location:
    france
    I tried many positions in the room. the intensity of reflections change , but no perfect position still now.
     
  18. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Well-Known Member

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    I listened to the recording, it is not so unbalanced that it could not be mixed in a song.
    Are you sure you might not like your voice like 90% of signers and you're trying to make it sound like someone else..
    Natural reason is that we normaly hear our voice through bones inside our head and the mic can't.. the mic hears what others hear.
    You could also have a problem of fidelity with your monitors and/or the room acoustics.. but what I'm hearing on the recorded side isn't that bad..
    Did you try to bring that recording somewhere else (car, friends or family systems ? )
     
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  19. paulears

    paulears Well-Known Member

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    I'm confused now - I think pcrecord could be right. We are listening for issues caused by something external, but the rather dark tone overall is just you? Or maybe you and the mic not working in a complimentary way? There's a bit of room, a bit of this and that, but the fundamental thing could just be your voice.

    Clearly you're not happy - maybe more distance, and a different mic, or a point up or point down mic position? I just don't think we are hearing what you hear?
     
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  20. az35000

    az35000 Active Member

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    Jun 22, 2020
    Location:
    france
    Hi every one , I havent been here these days cause my uncle just passed away.

    so thanks for all your support i will take into account all your advices and remarks .

    I haven't any problem with how the voice technically sounds . but with how my mic capture some low frequencies and some reflections.

    as paulears and pcrecord said maybe its the wrong combinaison voice / room/ mic.
     
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  • AT5047

    The New AT5047 Premier Studio Microphone Purity Transformed

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