Britain in the 60's early 70's small condensers for live vocals.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by cubemonkey, Mar 16, 2020.

  1. cubemonkey

    cubemonkey Active Member

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    Hey everyone,
    the burning question...you all know this..and i think its a culture thing...sure you can tell me.

    If you watch the whistle test on u-tube, like on Be-Bop Deluxe, or watch Hendrix at Isle of Wight, you have the old two mics tapes together, which you see alot from that era, i get it, recording is a totally separate feed.
    (very thorough miking on Isle of Wight, on the drums). Also, I've seen pictures in Motown recording pictures,they use small diaphragm condensers. But in America (especially with Wally Heilder) he would not
    use those mics. he chose the SM57 with the Shure windscreen or another one. And anyone who has seen the rooftop concert by the Beatles...an AKG (I think) small condenser.

    Is it because its a culture thing or with a condenser you get more of a "studio quality" high end? vs' having to
    EQ a SM57? If you have ever seen the Beach Boys at Knebworth, its SM58's. but its "crisp" so they prob had great pre-amps (as expected) and jacked the high end. From the stuff i have read, the Large Diaphragm are the "rock and roll" sound, like the U47 ect the beatles used in the studios. I am interested in your comments.

    Thank U
    bob
     
  2. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

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    this might interest you. look for the part @33:50 where they go through his mic locker. exactly what you were talking about.

     
  3. cubemonkey

    cubemonkey Active Member

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    I greatly appreciate it, Expensive AT mic guy :) :) (you have good taste!!!!!!).
    thanks very much.:)
     
  4. cubemonkey

    cubemonkey Active Member

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    AHAHAHA AT5047 is the Advert. :) :) Sorry! :) 8-tack tape machine is better :) looks like 3"...even better.
     
  5. cubemonkey

    cubemonkey Active Member

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    no love for the AKG 1000E . I didn't think they sounded as good as a SM57. If i had to guess, i'd say it was AKG's attempt at an SM57. If i remember right in the early 70's they were cheaper too
     
  6. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

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    the Shure Unidyne series mics introduced a "presence peak" that other dynamics didn't have (pre sweetened). up to when the Unidynes came out, the thought was to make dynamics as "flat" as possible. so it's not that those mics don't "sound good" but that the Shures just had a "good sound". think corn flakes vs. sugar frosted flakes.

    a 57 has a peak at about 5k. a 1000E has a peak at 10k as well as a lo freq roll off switch. the 1000E is a great mic for recording.
     
  7. cubemonkey

    cubemonkey Active Member

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    and i think the SM56 (since sm57 is an update) was originally designed for classical music? The mics at woodstock look like shure sm565's but i read they actually had the new sm58 guts -- i don't know if its a updated capsule or whatever.. (i don't know the internals of mics). In my home studio when bought a condenser AT2020, and a friend gave me a Rode NT1 which is great, but you have to have a very quiet room, or gate it and hope it is passable. With the At2020 you have to process the siblance .
    Sometimes you want something quick, so a SM57/8 will do. I am sure is modern pop music, that would never go, you need that sleek high end. Probably more so for a female singer.
    I started the beatles rooftop concert method of micing, a LDC over a foot away from the Amp. really nice open sound vs. a SM57. I am still trying to figure out how you can have these sensitive U47's on a rooftop in the middle of London (like Lennons guitar in the intro of I've got a feeling) and i hear no traffic! Must be lots of gating and stuff. Course look at those legendary engineers. Just fun stuff.
     
  8. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

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    ldc's will have a larger pick up window and are more sensitive so they will need less gain. sdc and sd dynamics will pick up less ambient information. size does matter in this scenario.

    "
    From Shure's Corporate Historian:
    1. The SM56 and SM57 used the same mic element. The only difference was the label. A mic element for the SM56 will fit the onto the SM57 handle, and vice versa.
    2. If a handle does not contain a transformer, it is the SM77 handle."

    GENERAL
    The Model SM56 is a slender, moving coil (dynamic)
    microphone, built to provide wide range reproduction of
    music and voice and featuring an exceptionally uniform
    and effective unidirectional pickup pattern. The
    performance characteristics and unique construction
    make it ideal for studio and remote use in broadcasting,
    recording, motion picture, and critical sound reinforce-
    ment applications.

    shure-sm56-vocal-microphone-xl.jpg
     
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  9. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Distinguished Member

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    Brightness seems to be a trend in the 57s evolution. There was a unidyne 3 at the studio used on snare top sometimes which sounded like a little bit dull 57, compared to the beta 57a, the 57 sounds a bit duller. All cool mics, its interesting to be that things keep getting brighter. The 414 xls is noticeably brighter than the uls.

    I wonder if taste or perhaps cost cutting is resulting in brighter stuff.

    I can see where tape might like bright, but with digital not having a roll off like that, i think neutral makes more sense. I theorize our ears just got used to bright digital since we were using tools designed for analog.
     
  10. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

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    i'm sure the differences you hear in Unidyne 57's are due to the age of the motor. the Beta mics have different motors than their predecessors that employ Neodymium magnets that increase their efficiency. the differences in the 414 (assuming they have the same capsules) can be attributed to transformer vs. electronic balancing
     
  11. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Distinguished Member

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    Interesting about the 414. Im sure 40 years of sitting of top of a snare would loosen anything up. My only complaint about the unidyne was the on/off switch had become flaky, and my soldering skills are pre-school level at best.
     
  12. cubemonkey

    cubemonkey Active Member

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    Thank you, i didn't know other companies mics DIDN'T have that. and I didn't know the sm57' s are getting brighter. I can see that as being necessary in todays "mod-wren" music. :) (i am no expert)
     
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