Discussion in 'Mastering' started by vagelis, Aug 1, 2003.

  1. vagelis

    vagelis Guest

    What you think of the C4?
    I used to work with other stuff but I'm about to check some other stuff.
    For example the C4 and the other Waves Stuff Ren.Eq etc.
    The 1176 from the Bomb Factory and of course the L2 (hardware)
    Your Opinions please?

  2. Jon Best

    Jon Best Active Member

    Mar 18, 2001
    Lots of other stuff in there.

    The C4 is a useful tool. It definitely falls under the category of 'rope to hang yourself with,' though- it gives you an enormous amount of control to use for good or evil on your audio. I personally don't use it very often, because it's good (imo) for fixing some pretty specific problems. I would *not* use it with less than good monitors, because it can really screw up your audio in not-immediately-apparent ways.

    I don't think it's that geared towards making something good better- it's more of a surgical tool. More often than not when I *do* use it, I'm using one band with the rest bypassed.

    I like the Renaissance EQ and comp better than the Q10 and C1, and I think the RenComp usually sounds the best at ratios under 2:1. Again, it's more what you use it on and how well you use it that decides if the tool is right for you.

  3. Alécio Costa - Brazil

    Alécio Costa - Brazil Well-Known Member

    Mar 19, 2002
    I do like Q10 but you have to be careful when applying HPF´s with hot signals inputing it.
    TC MAster X 5 band is nice reasonable and Vintage Warmer sounds pretty cool in many things.

    I did not have much luck with C1.
  4. Pootkao

    Pootkao Guest

    I've found the C4 really opens up my mixes and adds space and clarity. Good monitoring is KEY as it is doing some very small-scale operations that you NEED to keep tabs on, sonicly.

    But yeah, you can hurt yourself real bad real fast and not even know it. But I do feel as if my work would be worse off without it.
  5. sheet

    sheet Well-Known Member

    May 28, 2003
    Kansas City, KS
    Home Page:
    The ONLY issue that I have with the C4 is that it is not 96k. That really bites. But I understand why.

    I have the Platinum Bundle. I use the C4 for lower sample rate sessions, the L1 and 2, the Q10, etc.

    The Bomb Factory stuff is not for strereo bus applications in my opinion. It also generates alot of DC. I do use it on my channel inserts though, and clean up after it.

    That McDSP stuff is pretty darn cool. I think that and the Sonic Solutions NoNoise are the two best things that I have added this year.
  6. d-dmusic

    d-dmusic Guest

    I personally haven't had good results with the C4.

    I've worked with it over and over. Then left it alone for a long period but then came back to it recently with similarly unsatisfied results.

    Pulled out the manual when I purchased it and keep it in my, eh-em, "library" for constant reference, but, I just don't get anything from using the C4. In fact, more often than not, it weakens my mix, when comparing what it's doing to Bypass.

    And yes, you've got to be careful. Don't use it at the end of a long day unless you really have it down. You could be fooled. I was once and regretted using it. Too bad, I was really looking forward to it's use.

    IMHO, the PSP Vintage Warmer is sonically superior to both the C4 and L1 and is far and away easier to use than the C4.
  7. Alécio Costa - Brazil

    Alécio Costa - Brazil Well-Known Member

    Mar 19, 2002
    following some folks suggestions, I also intend to say bye bye to Waves Q series and dig deeper into Mc DSP Filterbanks.

    Btw, which is your favorite multiband compressor? Hey I know our bigger brothers here are not big fans of MB compresors once they do plenty damage to mix balance.

    So.. at your DAE folder.....

    (1) Vintage Warmer PSP
    (2) MC 2000 Mc DSP
    (3) Master x (3+5) TC Works
    (4) Linear phase Comp Waves
    (5) C4 Waves

    What are your impressions?
  8. d-dmusic

    d-dmusic Guest

    Alecio :

    Just curious, is that your Mastering chain ?

    If so, why would you put the C4 last ? Have you had good results with the C4 ? If anything, I'd put the Vintage Warmer last for that final punch.

    I've had great results using the PSP MixPressor and RenEQ on the mix bus and then Exporting a "Pre-Master" for further Mastering. Usually, I end up using the Vintage Warmer, by itself, for a little final polish during Mastering. That''s it for me.

    In general, I'm finding that I've got to get away from using compression. Even with the little I'm using, I'm killing my mixes. I know it's a trend and my CD's will be "quieter" but I've just got to do it anyway.

    It's difficult though when your clients demand that or at the very least whine about it. "It's not as bright as band "xyz" or it's not as loud as "so and so's" CD, I've got to turn it up." That's what the damn volume knob is for.

    If you put Toto's "The Seventh One" into your CD player I seem to remember it peaks at around 4db MAX ! @ Unity gain and it sounds simply amazing. Just use the volume knob.

    O.K. I'll stop ranting now.
  9. invisibl

    invisibl Guest

    One thing to be aware of with the C4 is the ability to blur the stereo image.
    The plug in gives an amazing amount of surgical potential and therein lies the problem. I believe an earlier poster said somethying like

    "Rope to hang oneself with"

    Yup thats about it right there.


    If you wish to use the C4 Then try not to sit in the 'all Bands muted Bar one' mode coz you WILL be fooled by what you are hearing.
    Frequently compare your processing against the material in a bypassed state.
  10. AudioGaff

    AudioGaff Well-Known Member

    Feb 23, 2001
    Silicon Valley
  11. d-dmusic

    d-dmusic Guest

    BTW, there's a new plug on the block that sounds very interesting to me. Ethan pointed this one out. It's called Peak Slammer and works in a completely different way than a compressor. I haven't tried it yet but I'm going to very soon.

  12. by

    by Guest

    wow that peak slammer prog really does the trick! they even posted wave forms on their website to illustrate. LOLLOOLOLLLOLOL

    YAH for destruction!
  13. fenix

    fenix Guest

    why are u people using a c4 as a mastering plug? That is not what it was intended for. Waves makes a multiband comp mastering plug. Linear phase multiband i think is what it's called.
  14. Alécio Costa - Brazil

    Alécio Costa - Brazil Well-Known Member

    Mar 19, 2002
    ddmusic, I think our brains are connected man!
    I usually refer to Toto Seventh One also!lol

    BTW.. what is MIxspresor? I need to look at that also. I beta tested the Vintage Warmer.I love it.

    Now you guys commented that C4 is not that great, I will go directly to Waves MAster bundle, although linear phase approach sometimes is not the thing to go...

    some chains for junior mastering:

    1) Q10 > TC MAster X 5 band > Power Dither Level 3 > PAZ

    2)Q10 > PSP VW > TC Master X 5 Band(comp, exp, eq off,just for brickwall limiting) > Power Dither Level 3 > PAZ

    3) Q10 > TC Master X 5 BAnd (eq , limit, dither off)> Maxim > MAster Tools UV22 dither

    Of course ya can also put an additional Q10 after the multiband compressor or just put the only Q10 after the multiband comp but not forgetting to ceiling limit/dither ( assuming ya work at 44.1k/24bits) as the final step.

    A bird told me to use Power dither only for the final 2 mix bounces.

    Michael and the other Mastering moderators shall be thinking....what the hell these guys are doing with all this semi-crap?lol
    Nice thursday :s:
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