clean keyboard bass?

[Ted Nightshade]

We've managed to get a pretty killer sounding fat keys bass that sounds like John Paul Jones (with the right player!), but using the yamaha midi sound module that had the only workable bass sound I could find, this required radical parametric EQing (15db cuts and adds! ) and some other wizardry.
Ok, but the fat bass is not always called for, and can get in the way as you may well imagine.
I've heard a very few amazing high budget recordings that have a super clean, ultra low profound keys bass (I'm not saying "synth" bass because I don't want it to sound like a synth, more like God through a magic SVT on a five string, or maybe Phil Lesh) that is remarkable in that it doesn't take up much space in the mix but fills in the ultra lows in a very good way.
Anybody achieved results like this? How?
Mostly, what was the source- a keyboard or sound module? I'm thinking there's got to be something that needs basically no tweaking, sounds right out of the box through an appropriate DI (Avalon?).
I've talked to a lot of keyboard players about this, who seem thrilled with a lot of pretty messy compromises in this department. You guys know what sounds great-
What's the solution here?
Ted

 

[Alex Marlowe]

I've had some success with the "Killer Bass" patch on the Korg T Series keyboards, with some EQ, it can work well.

Also the Will Lee Bass Library samples can be very effective.

Printing the keyboard bass as digital audio and using the Amp Farm plug-in with some bass amp-type settings has worked at times...

Good luck, I'm still in the search for the Perfect Bass myself...

 

[anonymous]

Last 4 keys on a bosendorfer? (hehehehe)

 

[isoloop@juno.com]

Moog Prodigy or Rouge modified to play an octave lower than normal. Run that through a bass Pod on the Sub Dub setting. Huge low end with great tone.

 

[Ted Nightshade]

Are these vintage moogs you're talking about, Lord Alvin?
Ted

 

[damster]

Do have any synth programming knowledge.Grab two oscillators and turn the octaves down.....play with the different waveforms(sine,square etc.).....adjust the balance of the two oscillators.Add a low frequency oscillator and apply it to the pitch(chorus type stuff)or volume(vibrato)etc.Then filter it as desired.Not to say you've never tried this before but for me---it's hard to go back to presets when I know I can get closer to desired effect by making it myself.

 

[GZsound]

I'll agree with the "make it yourself" idea. Depending on the bass sound I need, I create it starting with a patch that is close and then tweaking it with filters, detuning,etc. and then adding other sounds (detuned 12 string, piano, etc.) until I get the desired effect. The bass sound you are after is extremely subjective so only you can decide when you have what you want.

Since bass is a monophonic (usually) sound, you should be able to layer several sounds together to get your desired result. I find a combination of real and synth sounds can give a good result.

 

[isoloop@juno.com]

Are these vintage moogs you're talking about, Lord Alvin?

Yeah, they are. Most of the artists and producers I work with have these things hanging around. I sold all of mine a few years back.

 

[Nate Tschetter]

Howdy

This is why (your preferred diety) gave us the Minimoog. I get whatever "heard" sound is needed, then I mix in a triangle an octave below. A subtle amount of filter contour helps.

 

[Rich Johnstone]

I've used the following methods successfully for years - one or other them always seems to do the trick.

1. A Minimoog
2. A Pro 1 - awesome at so many things
3. An S3000xl mixing a sample of a bass note from a Rolling Stones tune - sorry it's so long ago I can't remember which one - and a sine wave.

Method three has got me out of jail time and time again - always the same program and just a little tweak on the envelopes and filters to fit the track. cheers - Rich :roll:

 

[Ted Nightshade]

Since I posted this I checked out the Korg Triton rack and it seems to have some real decent sounds right out of the box, as far as bass goes. I'll have to do some more research and see if I can tweak the sounds like you all are describing- adding triangle waves an octave down and that.
I'll keep me eyes out for the Minimoog!
Ted

 

[Bill Plummer]

The NordLead also does some very good bass stuff. :tu:

 

[erockerboy]

Wow, cool thread!

Hey Rich, I'd love to know what Rolling Stones tune you are referring to! I've done many a similar trick myself (i.e. sample a bass note and then mix in a synth tone)... it can really work a treat!

Ted, if you are looking for a Minimoog, you may also want to keep an eye out for the Studio Electronics SE-1. It's a Minimoog copy with built-in MIDI and patch memory. No retrofit needed, it always stays in tune and it sounds PHATT!!!

I saw somebody up there referring to the Bass POD. Is that thing worth having around? Seems like the POD (guitar version) always left me kinda underwhelmed, but hey... who knows?

 

[Punchmo]

I've had both the guitar and bass pods in my studio. Not the pro versions, haven't heard either of those. But IMHO, the bass pod is a much more workable di box than the guitar pod. I'm especially liking the 4 x 10 speaker cab setting in that thing.

I'll ring in on the minimoog for the bass and lead textures. Mine is very old, bought it in 1971. Tuning can be a bitch...gotta get the takes quickly while it's feeling good but it is worth it. I've got an MKS70 w/ a PG800 programmer that gives up good bass tones as well.
Steve