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Collaborating with studios & musicians.

Discussion in 'Collaboration & Services' started by audiokid, Feb 24, 2017.

  1. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    BC, Canada
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    The internet makes collaborating with other studios & musicians around the world, possible.

    I've been meaning to open a thread about collaboration so here is a good start to where I am heading this next decade.

    I know there are circles of engineers and musicians around the world making incredible sounding songs (albums) through collaboration.
    The internet has enabled talented people the ability to hone and market their studios and local talent towards specific tasks meaning, drummers build their studios to track drums, guitarists build theirs studios to track guitars/ re-amp, vocalists build their studio to track vocals and so forth.
    Example: If I need drums for a client, I may send the bed tracks to Marco or Chris Perra and they add drums to the mix. If I need a unique choral background, I may send the bed tracks to Donny, and so it goes.

    However, in order for piece work (collaborated tracks)to gel (glue), the sound quality of everyone involved should ideally match the over-all sonic level of the overall collaboration project(s). Meaning, it would be counter productive sending pristine vocals to someone that returns poor conversion sounding drums, guitars, violins, vocal tracks back. The mix would turn out sounding odd to say the least.

    From a collaboration perspective then, (fitting into the mold) gear and the conversion quality is a very important piece of the puzzle.

    From a mixing perspective, learning how to work and glue collaboration piece work together so it sounds consistent to the collaborators as possible is a growing community filled with opportunities.

    As an example of what my attributes will be: I am proficient in electric and acoustic guitar performing and recording, re-amping, vocal recording, choral work through city choirs. mixing and so on.
    My studio lacks in ceiling size, hindering me to ever have the ability to track live drums the way I want, or what most client or a record company would pay for, so I don't even go there. I don't invest money to be a half way studio in a world that is becoming better and better at modular integration and communication.
    If sampling or sound replacement isn't an option, I would shop drum tracks out to a drummer that gets it done better than me, to match the specs of whomever is paying the bills.
     
    pcrecord and Namin like this.
  2. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    Here is a classic example of this.


    Drums were track in a different studio by someone famous. I think this recording is just beautiful, the drumming is perfect so I share this example of what I am describing in the OP.

    I was offered to mix this (after it was released) and just for fun, I gave it a Bricasti to demonstrate how good my conversion holds together. I wouldn't normally use such a long reverb decay but it was done for other reasons.
    Other than the excessive decay... I think my mix sound much better to the original release, thus new opportunities were built.


    The point is not about me in this post but how beautiful collaboration can be and work.
     
    Namin, Makzimia and pcrecord like this.
  3. Chris Perra

    Chris Perra Active Member

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    Jul 13, 2014
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    Toronto
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    This is going to be the way of the future for sure.. Half of my living is from doing drum tracks for people.. The hardest part for people wanting to do this kind of thing is marketing and finding your market for what you can provide as someone exceptional at what you do.. Also if you want to do it,.. get out there and do it in whatever capacity you can.. Alot of times especially in forum land people get caught up in gear, or comparisons to experince or lack thereof etc. and they feel they can contribute and never get motivated enough to do something..

    As long as you keep in mind what level you are at and are always working towards the next level... (It's imporatnt to not overshoot your capabilities when taking other peoples money and giving them false expectations) You will be able to find people at your level to work with that need your services.
     
    Namin and audiokid like this.
  4. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    I just heard on CBC this morning that their will be new opportunities opening up for China AV Studios, and maybe some of us who get prepared to collaborate will be able to get work. How cool is that!

    Apparently they are buying/ investing in our movie and music industry, to produce movies and music. Collaboration opportunities look promising meaning, definitely good for vocalists and gear sales in Asia.
    Just when we thought it was over, business is simply just shifting to new markets. Having the internet makes it possible for us to collaborate around the world.
     
  5. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    BC, Canada
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    @Namin

    How does the music industry look there? What are your thoughts on collaborating globally?
    Is there enough business in India for you?
    Please feel welcome to share what you are planning with your new hybrid system? :)
     
  6. Namin

    Namin Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2017
    Location:
    New Delhi
    The music industry is booming here, which unfortunately for a lot of independent musicians and bands is movie based. Movies are the easiest way to get noticed and eventually paid. I have a few friends in the movie industry and they earn extremely well. There is a lot of money to be made in that part of the world for the right person. When we talk about commercial Indian music its what we call Raga based or Scale based but harmonized with chords. So its essentially a kind of fusion. Personally, I cannot see Bollywood music working without chords and harmony today. People have always experimented with western classical music ideas and idioms from the early days of Indian Cinema.

    Bombay or Mumbai as it is currently known is where all the action happens. I am not exactly a part of that, at least not yet, would love to. I am an independent music producer and I work with a few independent bands and solo artists in New Delhi. I have myself sung for a Spanish singer/songwriter based in Spain a couple of years back. And attended a guitar workshop with Swedish guitar virtuoso Mattias IA Eklundh! I have also collaborated with German mastering engineer Friedeman Tischmeyer on his book Internal Mixing where he compares a few Analogue Summing Mixers. This book was my first introduction to Analogue Summing and SPL Mixdream in particular. Friedemann Tischmeyer himself owned an SPL himself among numerous other mastering stuff. He is based out of the US now and conducts mastering seminars and workshops worldwide. Oh yes, I love collaborating and am always open. It always brings in a new dimension and its a great learning opportunity. We can now learn a lot from the internet but I still fell there is nothing like being with a mentor and looking over his shoulder and absorbing everything one can, if you are really passionate about this art form. Now with the advent of the internet and YouTube and Pensado's Place! what I am observing is a trend towards modernizing old Indian popular film songs and recording/arranging them with the modern technology and aiming for a million hits! Oh yes just like in the US and UK, we do have our share of Reality Shows and what not! It makes me feel that everybody is a singer/musician these days! LOL

    The movie industry is mostly Pro Tools(Code Mess!) based, I think Pro Tools 12 is not that bad btw! (Bobby Owsinski's recent email states that we might be in for a major change of DAWs, Pro Tools is losing its grip... ) and a lot of people use Logic and Abelton Live and Cubase or Nuendo. I have tried all of these but I have been a Reaper user for more than 5 years now and couldn't be happier. Its extremely well coded. I am intrigued at Samplitude and Sequoia and Pyramix too!
    Whatever I have bought have been self funded and occasionally with help from friends.

    Indian producers have collaborated with various renowned artists like Usher and Lady GaGa and Michael Bolton to name a few in the recent years. A.R. Rahman is probably the biggest composer who has brought about the greatest change in recorded music in this country and various International musicians do come to Chennai, formerly Madras where his studio is based, and has collaborated with him. I think he works with Logic and Pro Tools because he is in the movie industry. People like Guy Pratt of Pink Floyd fame and Dominic Miller (Sting) have worked with him many many years back. There are plenty of people in Bollywood our equivalent of Hollywood today who are exceptional musicians and worthy of respect and who are producing stellar results. But I also see that a few people blindly purchase equipment when they can afford it and claim that the difference is night and day or statements like "this changed my life" after owning the Antelope 10M!!!

    So the awareness is much higher and there is a great demand for quality. But I can never deny that Indians have always been very open to collaboration and have indeed produced great stuff. Mastering is perhaps an area that is not tapped enough as there are only a handful of people in that area who do it and work usually goes to them. I can only think of two at the moment!

    As far as business is concerned, I should say that I have been working full time as a music producer/project studio owner since 2008. I also do have a small luthiery business going side by side particularly specializing in stainless steel refrets. But these days its more of studio work than luthiery. I just cannot find enough time for luthiery. Its okay not anywhere near to what I can or probably should make if I were in the movie industry, but I love learning and thats what brought me here to Recording.org. The studio was not started initially to be a commercial venture. It gradually became so. It was and still is intended for me to write and produce my own material but I just happened to learn a lot by recording and mixing other people.

    What I intend to do with this new hybrid system is to offer superior services for new people and old clients who have recorded with me in the past and do a few remixes of older recordings and productions that I have done worthy enough of adding to my portfolio and through that I intend to have new clients and expand the business a bit. I record Christian/non-Christian rock/country music too. I have not tapped into the social networking sites yet, but would love to. A lot of friends of mine tell me to. I get work mainly through word of mouth usually, probably the best type of marketing!

    I am a huge country music fan today and that's a complete turn around as I was a singer in an 80s cover band! And into to record a lot of acoustic instruments in the near future. I think recording and arranging is something that I am going to be taking more seriously than ever before. And of course mixing which I love.

    Feel free to ask me anything you want to know, I will try and answer as best as I can as to how things are moving/heading in this part of the world. Kudos to the RO community...
     
    audiokid likes this.
  7. TonyS

    TonyS Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2017
    Location:
    Berlin
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    Hi together,

    I have a previous background in music production (classic, rock, pop, metal) and touring and was active in different forums. I often noticed a lot of great mixing engineers had trouble finding good mixing projects. This is the reason why I created www.soundcollab.com.
    SoundCollab helps artist finding the right people for a song. You can search for a genre and the wanted part. For example: Rock, Pop / Guitar, Mixing, Mastering.

    There is also a artist map, which shows you the most active users on a map, so you can also find people by location and check out their work. https://www.soundcollab.com/user-map.html
    C8UTuQ2XcAAUYKV.jpg

    SoundColllab is very new and I would be extermely happy if you'd like to join.
     
  8. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    Mar 20, 2000
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    BC, Canada
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    And in return, would you share a mutual collaboration by adding a backlink to our recording.org community?
    Thoughts?
     
    TonyS likes this.
  9. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    Mar 20, 2000
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    Thank you for sharing all this, Namin. The opportunities in your country are very exciting right now. Very informative and good to read.
     
    Namin likes this.
  10. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2000
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    BC, Canada
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    @TonyS

    I moved your thread here:
    I believe collaborating with other musicians is the future of my world as well. I am currently building a studio specifically to collaborate. Please share more information about your goals, where you see collaboration heading?
     
    Namin likes this.
  11. TonyS

    TonyS Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2017
    Location:
    Berlin
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    Hi @audiokid ,

    thank you for moving it to the right place! :)

    My goal is to help artist and sound engineers to grow and get a reputation. Because of my background, I know how hard it is to start out and find skilled people to work with.
    On SoundCollab everyone can post their current tracks and let them vote by the community. In this way, quality music / tracks are always on top of the site and will reach more people. Therefore other artists and mixing engineers can work with it and post their collaboration to the project, which can be voted again.

    If you get upvotes on your collaboration or tracks, you will get "SC Points". People with more points will be displayed higher on the artist map.

    So in short: help good people to reach more people and connect. :)

    I would also love to help your forum and share a backlink! Everyone is also free to add any social links or homepages on their user site: https://www.soundcollab.com/user-card.html?user=auth0|58cbe3e703d7530ea0a09ca1

    My plan is to also write about the best "unkown" engineers for each genre. I think great forums and like this, could also be included because they provide a lot of knowledge to learn from. What do you think? :)
     
    audiokid likes this.
  12. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    Mar 20, 2000
    Location:
    BC, Canada
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    @TonyS

    Right on. I will help you reach a mutual goal. Win Win for us all..

    Some insight because you are a new member and a perfect fit for us.

    Our core members have been collaborating and discussing cutting edge methods to improve ways to help overcome the negative sound of a collaborated (pieced together) project.

    Since 1998 our core members keep this place free of misleading or problematic misinformation that takes us backwards from these goals. We qualify, get to the point and move on, thus passing on solid information that helps us all improve towards mutual advancement.

    Our passions are microphone choices, how to better track, acoustically design and mix music so it sounds the best it can, for what we have to work with.
    Many of us are recording in less than ideal rooms, so we discuss all aspects of how to produce music that sounds like it was performed together.

    Collaborating! (y)

    I will spend some time on your website and report back.
     
    TonyS and Namin like this.
  13. TonyS

    TonyS Active Member

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    Apr 2, 2017
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    @audiokid Thanks for the nice approach.

    I am 100% on the same side. Totally a gear nerd and reading everything about mixing and recording. I worked in one of the nicest recording halls in Germany but also in very small and muddy rooms. Everything from big orchestras to pop and metal.
    Unfortunately, I cant share any of my current work. So the first tracks on SoundCollab are just mixed songwriting ideas.

    Since the SoundCollab is on it's first version, I would love to get your feedback, so I can develop new features and improve existing ones.
    I will let you know about the forum backlink soon!
     
    audiokid likes this.
  14. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    Mar 20, 2000
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    BC, Canada
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    @DonnyThompson @Boswell @pcrecord @kmetal @Kurt Foster @Namin @esencia @Chris Perra @Brien Holcombe and (forgive me for not including you)... many others...

    If you have been following this thread, to our good fortune, TonyS just found us . He is building a collaboration service that could be (one way or another) a fantastic win win resource for us all.
    Our community members offer consulting, studio improvements and design, musicianship, mixing and mastering services.

    Collectively, can we come up with a brief description about our community, keeping in mind the description would be targeted towards people interested in collaborating... (creating, piecing and gluing projects together) ?
     
    esencia, DonnyThompson and TonyS like this.
  15. TonyS

    TonyS Active Member

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    Berlin
    Home Page:
    @audiokid
    Hi together,
    I already set up the site where I want to display the best sources for recording knowledge. If you could PM me the description, I am happy to post it! :)
     
  16. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    Location:
    BC, Canada
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    Thanks Tony.

    "recording, mixing & mastering engineers discuss microphones, room acoustics, pro audio equipment for collaborating musicians & studios around the world"
     
  17. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

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    Nov 25, 2012
    Location:
    Akron/Cleveland, OH
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    Just a suggestion. ;)
     
  18. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    Mar 20, 2000
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    BC, Canada
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    Yrs!!!
    That is better, Domny.
    Tony, please use that.
     
  19. TonyS

    TonyS Active Member

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    DonnyThompson likes this.
  20. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    What are some of the highlights learned?

    Thanks. I honestly can't think of any one in particular thread. There is so much in all of it.
    Our forum started in 1998 with many of the worlds more respected engineers from around the world. Over the years I have been organizing and removing everything from abandoned user names to posts and threads that ended up being redundant or duplicate information. 4 years ago I pruned 60,000 members that have died or gone to gmail accounts that never post. I keep usernames available for those who actually post and contribute. Our 6700 users are actual active members apposed to 54,000 that never post going back 20 years since we opened this up as a community.
    Rather than forcing people to register, the forum is free to read without adding bloat, useless content and numbers to the database.

    I love saying this: I personally think we are one of the best organized and rich filled recording communities on the web. We are actually one of the few pro audio resources who has stayed true to the art of using microphones to record real people. Not many forums have the experience these members have shared that spread all the way back to early Motown to cutting edge hybrid audio over the years. I love the members vibe here. We are a smaller but tighter community that doesn't owe special interest groups a favor to say or sell useless information to keep the server going.

    Thank you for your link back and resource. I am in the process of building a studio that will be taking advantage of your services. I will put something up for you above this forum. Don't forget you can also add a full page in the Resource section too! (and that includes all your contacts as well)

    Cheers!
     
    TonyS likes this.

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