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Control Room Design - Please Help

Discussion in 'Acoustics (Live Room, ISO Booths)' started by mikezfx, Dec 8, 2002.

  • AT5047

    The New AT5047 Premier Studio Microphone Purity Transformed

  1. mikezfx

    mikezfx Guest

    thanks, cant believe i didnt pick up on that. oh well its friday.

    mike
     
  2. knightfly

    knightfly Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Hey Mike G - Posts in the middle of things can be a pain - I'll need to see some drawings before I can offer advice (keep in mind, my advice comes from about 15 years of READING and studying and "What-if"-ing, and a couple of spaces worth of experience -

    PM me and we'll figure out where we can transfer drawings, etc... Steve
     
  3. knightfly

    knightfly Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Mikezfx - kinda busy this weekend, but I'll try to excavate down to that Yamaha sub and check out the line level connections - Meantime, if you have a set of phones with good strong bass extension, you could (until the sub happens) check mixes on the cans occasionally, or whenever tracking bass/kick parts (just for mix levels, not anything else on cans, all you flamers go back to sleep...)

    I saw a 10" 120 watt KLH sub in Costco yesterday for $100, the lit claims a 24 dB/octave crossover and it has both line and speaker level crossover capabilities - I may buy one just to see how bad a $100 sub can be, might be surprised... that's kinda lightweight for a very big room, but for a small one with V6's maybe a pair of the subs - If it's just not there, I can always give it away for Christmas to a "normal" person... Steve
     
  4. mikezfx

    mikezfx Guest

    thank you steve. i have a set of Sennheiser HD280s, should those do the trick?

    also, revisiting diffusion, are there any good DIY plans out there for my back wall?

    i also would like to *cheaply* add diffusive surfaces to my bands practice room (which is an absolute disaster acoustically, but its free...)

    mike
     
  5. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    The most common accepted alternative to diffusion is a bookcase. Stuff it with books and leave a couple of inches of space between the books and the rear boundary of the bookcase. You may also use the bookcase to store cords, tapes, records whatever. A real good source for cost effective alternatives to studio treatments is the old TEAC /Tascam "White Paper". I don't know if it is still in print, it may be available on Internet. Check that out.. I'll look for it too. ..... Fats
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    It's my opinion, I'll play with it if I want to!
     
  6. mikezfx

    mikezfx Guest

    i dont think i own enough books to populate a bookcase of that size :-/

    besides, id have to build the bookcase anyways. so while im at it i might as well build a diffuser.

    i have good woodworking skills so i can take on something challenging. are there any DIY plans available? i have read of people making DIY QRD's...

    also, the UPS tube idea brought up in another thread sounds interesting for my practice space, anyone have more thoughts on this?

    (idea was to take those long UPS triangular shipping containers (i think they 36" long, they are for blueprints), fill them with something, and put them on the wall at a certain interval. at $.68 a tube im intrigued ;) )

    mike
     
  7. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    The UPS tube idea is faulted.. To diffuse mids and low mid you have to have mass. The tubes are too light. Building your own Random Phase Grate is a cool idea if you have woodworking skills and the proper tools. It would require a table saw and nail gun. I'll search around today and see if I can find something with a dimension drawing.. I don't know about detailed plans... These aren't something you can just slap together. The actual science of these things can be quite involved. ....... Fats (ps, while your at it build a couple for me and a couple for Knightfly and a couple for DH and a couple for...... he he :D )
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    It's my opinion, I'll play with it if I want to!
     
  8. knightfly

    knightfly Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Fats, don't let him off so easy - our advice is worth at least SIX QRD's apiece, maybe more... :=)

    Seriously - if you've got the means to build stuff, first go here for pix

    http://www.macmidimusic.com/razquaddif.html

    Then go here for an Excel spreadsheet to calculate depths/sequence

    link removed

    (click on calculation tools, download the upper of the two diffusor calculator sheets

    Then......

    Fats gets the first two, since he's probably ready for 'em right now, you get the next batch, since you're actually building them, and I'll give you the specs for my 24 :=) when I'm further along with my new space (don't panic, it'll prob'ly be 2-3 years, plenty of time to build at least a couple dozen)

    (again) Seriously, I have yet to dig very deep into this area of acoustics so have no idea what some of the terms in Scott's spreadsheets are referring to, or how to use the sheets.

    IF you're ready to tackle this, Scotts email is on the same page with the sheets, and you can ask him your questions. Personally, since I'm not to the point of needing this yet I plan to do more study so I can ask even more involved, yet somehow dumber questions...

    BTW, if you mount these things horizontally, if and when you get enough books you would have variable depth shelves for 'em...:=) (yes, I WAS kidding, and yes, I AM still on medication, you don't want to see me if I'm NOT...)

    (yet again) Seriously, note the DEPTH it takes just to get down to 323 hZ - almost 17 inches !!!

    This is why people use bass traps in corners/on ceiling corners, and build polycylindrical diffusors (poly's) when the room is large enough to get away with it (easier to build, cheaper, smoother?)

    Brain hurts, must go use Aspirin hair tonic now... Steve
     
  9. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    mike,
    Arrgh! Thar ye be matey...Knightfly's a good laddie and he's always has the scientific data...
    I need 10 feet by 5 feet of these....and if ye don't comply, me and the lads will come by and deliver a broadside!!! :D Really, good luck with this and keep us posted as to how it goes. .... Fats
     
  10. Kemble

    Kemble Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2002
    Hello Chaps.

    First, take my ....

    wait, Fats, was that a pirate voice I was supposed to use?
    oh, NOW I get it! :D

    I have the plans for the quadradic diffusors. Have build 2 versions that are VERY :D

    Heck, I've gotten so much from this place and prorec.com that I'd build em for people for cost and a few KrispyKremes!

    I can do em in maple too....for a bit more cash...
     
  11. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    Jeff,
    MDF would be the stuff... It would cost a lot to ship them though... This is very interesting to me.. I bet you could make some dough doing this. For 8' X4' of these the cost from acoustics first and RPG is $1K... If I had the ability I would be trying to set up shop and do these.. it could be very lucrative. I can't tell you how many inquiries we get here regarding diffusion. .... Fats
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    It's my opinion, I'll play with it if I want to!
     
  12. Kemble

    Kemble Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2002
    Why make BILLION$$$$.....?
    When we can make..........MILLION$$$$$$$$$$$!

    (Dr. Evil voice on that would help!)


    I just was thinking that. But wondering "if it seems so obvious, why isn't someone doing it? Even make it better for only a few more bucks and put a diaphramic abosorber in the back of it to extend bass absorbtion. I'll have to look into it. If the shipping is feasable, I could make the parts ready to assemble and ship em out to whoever.

    ...and now off for some Christmas shopping....!
    (rumor has it Santa is bringing Battery Studio Drums to my house!) :D
     
  13. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    Jeff,
    I don't know why someone hasn't done this...figure out a cost, (it would be better if you could ship them assembled however for those of us who are all thumbs) and add shipping to them. Then post a poll here at "Small Steps" (I'm the moderator here and I won't flame you for "spaming") to see how many people would buy them. If you got a good response, invest in a banner here at RO and begin to market them.. If this works out, I get free ones for the idea! :D Fats
     
  14. knightfly

    knightfly Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    For my part in this diabolical scheme, I want a shrubbery...
     
  15. Kemble

    Kemble Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2002
    I asked FedEx what the average airspeed velocity was of an unlaiden diffusor. "African or European?" he asked........

    Well, gents. I am all smiles. And I know why no one has done this yet: so I can. And fill the gap. FYI: the plain jane QRD 734 from RPG (4'x2') is $392!!!!!!! Made of MDF. Clearcoated or primed. So thats $1568 for 8 feet of them. Yikes :eek:
    So now enter me. I'd like your (Fats and the Knigit) thoughts as a market sample. Does $100 a pop, delivered to your front door make it a viable option? The product is not the PATENTED QRD734, and it is not the Razorblade. Somewhere in between. I"ve been doing math for hours now and drawing things up. Looks like a 2'x4' diffusor made of .5" MDF. 9 wells. 8" max depth of well (according the PrimAcoustic that will give me diffusion down to 410Hz.) Rabbets and dadoes, glued and pinned with dowels as needed. Able to mount as needed (hang it or stick it on a stand). Primed or clearcoated. Painted black for a bit extra.
    So thats the initial thought. Like I said, does this make it viable? Oh, and the PrimAcoustic Razorblade is $350 (they brag its 'affordable'.)
     
  16. Kemble

    Kemble Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2002
    FYI: The man you knew as MikeG is really JeffZ. I was at Mikes a while ago and he was logged on. I asked some Q's and have since taken the account- he doesn't have questions....blah blah blah.

    So all the MIKEG stuff is JeffZ. And you'll be seeing my name on the account/posts.

    ...yes. JeffZ (me) is the one making diffusors.
     
  17. HiString

    HiString Guest

    In relation to the raised floor........it would be wise, if not essential to seal the underside of the floor sheets before putting them down. Any time that moisture (and it doesn't need much) comes through the concrete it will get into any unsealed timber. The end result is mildew anywhere and everywhere.

    :cool:
     
  18. knightfly

    knightfly Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    "Oh, and the PrimAcoustic Razorblade is $350 (they brag its 'affordable'.)" -

    Jeff, Primacoustic wants about $100 a pop JUST for SHIPPING - have you checked weight/size/costs, or are you just such a good guy you're willing to throw that in for free?

    Actually, that figure was from Mac/midi/music, not sure what you'd be quoted direct...

    Also, the way UPS handles things anymore, it would cost $100 just for PADDING so that the MDF didn't show up AFU...

    And, BTW, I'm STILL waiting for my shrubbery... Steve
     
  19. knightfly

    knightfly Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    HiString, good catch - when I mentioned using PT 2x's and placing the UNCUT side toward the floor, with the floor SEALED, it didn't occur to me that seals FAIL, S*** happens, and a good coat of waterseal on the underside of the flooring would just be smart...

    I'd still leave the ends open with walls built on top, just so you could ventilate under without having to excavate - That would also help alleviate the "green gunge syndrome"... Steve
     
  20. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    G' Mornin' Fellers...
    First the floor...for the 2X4's use pressure treated like knightfly said...and seal the plywood.
    I would be very concerned about the flooding...check and see about a sump pump for the basement. One that kicks in automatically when water invades. Get the flooring /tile folks to come out and perform a moisture test on the on the slab before you do anything else. If too much moisture is "wicking" up through the concrete, the space is just unusable.

    Now about the diffuser thing, sorry about the "Mike" bit Jeff... I need to pay more attention. I think knightfly is probably right about the shipping. I need to go to that page and look at the diffusers to see what they weigh...as far as finish I think a light gray fleck paint would be cool and blend well with most decors. And instead of screws and dowels, long finish staples would work, be simpler and more cost efficient. I had some DIY diffusers at my old studio that were put together for MC Hammer by his guys and that is how they were done. Very sturdy. If you could bring these in to sell for half of what the other manufactures are selling them for, plus shipping, I think you could make a killing. What person in their right mind wouldn't rather pay half for something? Like I said if you can do these I for one am very interested. I need diffusion in a very bad way! ....................... Fats

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    It's my opinion, I'll play with it if I want to!
     
  • AT5047

    The New AT5047 Premier Studio Microphone Purity Transformed

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