Desktop size analogue mixer?

Discussion in 'Consoles / Control Surfaces' started by Henry Turner Ward, Nov 24, 2017.

  1. Henry Turner Ward

    Henry Turner Ward Active Member

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    In search for a desktop analogue mixer, I've become particularly interested in Soundcraft's EFX8, based on its size and specs (suits my personal preferences)eg i/o functions

    To give you a bit of background, I'm an audio engineering student based in London- I'd like to have a mixer to practice various signal flow techniques as well as an over all feeling for mixing/ getting to know the console.

    If you anybody out there can let me know; based on the fact I'm a bit of a novice when it comes to consoles, why the EFX8 would be ideal for me? Also, what my pricing options are as a student and how the Soundcraft compares to other brands/competitors and/ or whether you're able to recommend better products for my preference?

    Many thanks,

    Henry
     
  2. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Well-Known Member

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    it's fine. all the stuff in that price range performs pretty much the same. choices are feature driven at this level. if you like it it should be fine.
     
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  3. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Well-Known Member

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    I know that our esteemed RO colleague Boswell ( @Boswell ) has used an Allen and Heath Zed mixer for some time now, and he sings its praises...
    And Bos is a REALLY smart guy... so we like to pay attention to what he says.
    No foolin', either.
    ;)
     
  4. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Well-Known Member

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    Well, there are OK ones and excellent ones. The one I talk about is the Zed-R16, a 16-channel analogue mixer with A-D and D-A conversion built-in. You need a big-ish desktop, though.
     
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  5. Henry Turner Ward

    Henry Turner Ward Active Member

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    Thanks, chaps for all of your discussions. My heart is still set on Soundcraft's EFX8- do suggest any others if you think I'm making a mistake?
     
  6. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps if you could mention some specific scenarios...
    Are you looking at an analog mixer for use as a front end for tracking? ie for mic preamps, EQ, etc
    Does conversion quality enter into this purchase...or do you already have a conversion system in place that you like?
    Will this mixer be used for mixing? Tracks, stems, etc...
    Do you want this mixer to double as a DAW control surface?
     
  7. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Well-Known Member

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    Henry, in addition to what Donny said, do you need this mixer to connect to a computer, or is it to be just an analogue stand-alone unit? If stand-alone, how do you intend to record the 2-track output of your mix?
     
  8. Henry Turner Ward

    Henry Turner Ward Active Member

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    Hi Donny and Boswell,
    As discussed, I'm looking to simply get a feel for using an analogue mixing console (just bare with)- This weekend however I've been looking into the various components and taken into account what I'd like to ideally incorporate in an semi/in-line desktop size mixer (source; Carlos Lellis Ferreira's 'Recording'. - In response to Donny's question about mentioning specific scenarios, It'd be preferable for me to have
    1. Input (mic/line) (obviously...)
    2. Aux's (2 minimum, featuring chan/mixB assignment, PFL+AFL control + maybe bypass.
    3. Inserts (i.e access to in/outboard FX that I can assign to chan/mixB and/or bypass) inc. EQ and dynamic processing ctrl.
    4. Module faders should ideally have a solo, mute, pal/afl switch and because it's inline one pot for MixB ctrl, and preferably a fader for channel control.
    The console should ideally have mic pre's as well as EQ ctrl, (although I do own an interface (APOGEE's One, which I find invaluable for my workflow)- regarding conversion, I'm really not fussed.
    Following on from Donny's questions and Boswell's query... *This mixer will be specifically used to feed my curiosity, ideally I'd be recording, mixing my own tracks using this console and should be firewire compatible with my DAW, which at the moment is ProTools.
    I've been looking into (as I'm sure you know so far) Soundcraft, Zed as well as some quick google searches...
    Would like to say thank you very much for your help and interest in my case and looking forward to hearing what you guys suggest.

    P.s- please consider the size (desktop) and price range- pref. (£200-500max)
     
  9. Henry Turner Ward

    Henry Turner Ward Active Member

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    The experiences I've had in the past, using SAE's facilities at London's Bankstock, have included a Neve, in line SSL console as well as a split digital desk- all I can remember is that it was an SSL. Something I've not discussed with you two is that due to my poor health at the moment, I've had to defer from my much loved Audio Engineering course. Hence why I'm desperate to still keep my mind buried in all of this pro-audio equipment. I'm sure you two can understand just how I'm feeling.
     
  10. Henry Turner Ward

    Henry Turner Ward Active Member

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    *Custom 75 Neve... not darn SSL.. duh..
     
  11. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry to hear you are going through a rough patch with your health. I can totally understand. In 2016 I was diagnosed with prostate cancer ( I'm fine now but at that time it consumed my life with stress and pain). I had been a member of RO for a couple years at that point, and it really helped me to keep my mind active with positive thoughts, and to be able to talk about this craft we all love with all my friends here. I also used that time to research all kinds of new audio tools and instruction, watch videos, get opinions, read articles and white papers ...so I encourage you to hang out here and keep your thoughts geared towards what you love to do. RO is a special place, a haven for those who love to teach, learn, solve problems, help others to solve their own, and discuss this craft of ours with like minded friends.
    There's always a chair open in the lounge, here. Have a cup of coffee and join in. I will be the first of many members to extend a handshake and to let you know that You are welcome here. ;)
    -donny
     
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  12. miyaru

    miyaru Active Member

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    Hope you will recover soon Henry!!!! I've been to the SAE in Amsterdam some 18 years ago to do the course for engineer......So we are sort of schoolmates!!!

    Get well soon, and try to keep the spirit up, it welp help you in the end to be positive.
     
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  13. Henry Turner Ward

    Henry Turner Ward Active Member

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    Thank-you, Donny for being so genuine and welcoming. I'm so glad to hear that you're on the mend and that RO have been supportive of your health, as well as encouraging you to remain intuitive and curious about the many wonders of the audio world! I will for certain be visiting RO frequently from here on out, posting queries, interests etc... Sat here with a coffee now so looking forward to seeing what other suggestions may be brought up for my case!
    - many thanks again, Henry!
     
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  14. Henry Turner Ward

    Henry Turner Ward Active Member

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    Haha, thanks miyaru- perhaps one day we'll cross paths, I'd love to visit the Netherlands... Only to see the ''tulip fields''- of course...
     
  15. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Well-Known Member

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    I too hope you get better soon!

    As for the analog mixer.
    I always address those with the same questions :
    1 - Why ? Are you gonna do live sound ? Or recording a band live ?
    2- How many inputs ?
    3- What level of quality are you looking for ?

    Having an analog board is fun. But regarding sound quality, at equal amount of inputs, an audio interface is a better choice.
    Many of them have real time mixers now the only thing is you don't have the knobs and faders.
    Why I say that, it's simple ; let's say you have an 8 channels for 400$.
    With the audio interface, they have to produce the unit, preamps converters and the firmware (real time mixer) so in the end you get 8 preamps worth 30-40$ each.
    With an analog mixer, you get the expense of the preamps and converter but also the knobs and faders which cost more. So your preamps may be worth 20-30$ instead.
    We're getting far from highend audio gear don't we ? (1 highend preamp would start around 400$ a piece)

    Mackie, Soundcraft, Allen & Heath, Yamaha, they all make average and good mixers. They all come from the analog world of the past and adapted to computers along the way.
    My first choice would be Allen & Heath for recording + live and Soundcraft for live + recording.
    Another alternative is a company that started with audio interfaces made for recording and created mixer afterward which is Presonus.
    Their digital mixers are very good for the price and maybe something you want to consider as well.
    The good thing about digital is that you can recall settings and once in digital the signal is kept cleaner.
    Of course it's not because it's digital that it's not good to learn. They have a lot of similarities with analog board but have more effects available (compressors on each inputs is good to have) And if you ever go live, most venues have digital board now... They are so convenient, bring your usb drive and load your show !! Dawm that was easy !! ;)

    In my situation, I went with many highend preamps and a good audio interface and a controler.
     
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  16. Henry Turner Ward

    Henry Turner Ward Active Member

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    Hi PCRecord! Thank you for this^ some really compelling and interesting scenarios you discuss.
    I'm looking to do recording rather than live for now. Preferably 6+ inputs and best quality regarding budget.
    ATM I'm using an Apogee ONE interface, downloaded the software (interface-Maestro 2) and like you say it doesn't feature knobs. Their layout/signal flow is simple, yet I know I'll need to train myself to use analogue.
    A digital interface controller sounds useful and I'll certainly look into investing in the near future. However, I'll take your advise and do some research on Mackie, Yamaha + Presonus desktop size, inline analogue consoles. If you're able to suggest any models in the meantime that'd be very much appreciated. (y)
     
  17. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Well-Known Member

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    PreSonus doesn't make an analog console. a lot of people who frequent this forum are pretty dedicated to the itb concept so they are quick to discourage the use of analog mixers. i on the other hand have observed that most of the "real" records i hear and read about being made (backed by labels, produced by credited producers) are being made with large format consoles. i applaud your insight in that your feeling a need to familiarize yourself with the "inz-an-outs" of an analog board.

    again, at the price point, features should drive your decision.
     
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  18. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Well-Known Member

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    The attraction that most people have for consoles is two things:
    The first is the "sound" of the desk; preamps, Filters, GR, etc, all of which lends to a particular console's sonic vibe.
    The second thing is the ability to work tactically. You can actually push real faders, turn real pots...and there is something to that. I find it a valid attraction - like many other RO veterans here I learned and came up on consoles and tape machines. There was a lot of things to touch. ;)
    But ultimately, the sound is what matters most to engineers.. I have no desire to use a console in my workflow just because it's a console.
    There was most certainly a lot of great sounding analog gear back in those days, and sonically they still hold an attraction because of their various sonic vibes. But, there was a fair amount of dreck, too.
    It wasn't cheap to do analog "right"... and really, it's still not.
    While I think our dollars go a little further these days, because technology has been amazing ( just think of the DAW in and if itself, that alone is amazing software), to get into good analog gear is still pretty pricey. Maybe even more so now, because so many of those pieces of gear have reached an iconic, highly collectible status.
    I remember buying a Teletronix LA2A in 1989 for around $400 bucks... it was used but in beautiful shape. VintageLA2's now command prices at least 8x as much, and even reissues by UA are around $3 grand. I faired about the same with my 1176's ...(the EL Distressor was a little cheaper) but ... they were pieces that did require servicing.
    If you are looking mainly for the tactile side of tracking/mixing, or to get familiar with hard routing and such, then there's nothing wrong with that... but sonic quality should figure into the priority list, too. Even the cheapest mixers will let you get signal from point A to point Z; the difference between the cheap models and the more expensive ones is how it sounds while you're getting them from point to point.
    Is it noisy or quiet? Is the EQ responsive or do you have to make broad strokes to change tone? Do the preamps offer enough gain? Do they sound "thin", "harsh" or "pinched", or full, warm, present and silky?
    These are just suggestions as to what I think you should consider.
    FWIW
    -d.
     
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  19. Henry Turner Ward

    Henry Turner Ward Active Member

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    Hi Donny! Totally agree with this and understand where you're coming from, even some of my fellow audio comrades have said I'm a little 'old school' in my approach to learning, but I think it's important to touch base once in while with old techniques- because like you say, at the end of the day it all comes down to sound. When I listen to old records- I can 'hear', the talent (Fleetwood, N. Young etc..), unlike some of the over processed, in the box crap around today. Needless to say, i do embrace new techniques- check this guy out... All comes down, in my opinion to the engineers attitude, knowledge and passion for sonic quality- always helps though when there's a Neve console involved too- so I've done a little research and found this page- think it's helping to put me in the right direction.... :D
     
  20. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Well-Known Member

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    The song and the music - and the performances - are always the most important things.
    You could capture a crappy song and a mediocre performance on a Neve or SSL, and it's still going to be a crappy song. It might sound very good thru gear like that, but what you'll have is a sonically superior recording of a crappy song or performance.
    There are some engineers who care only about the fidelity, the technical end, and that's okay, because that's part of the job... and yeah, I'm an engineer, and a decent enough one I suppose, , I know which end of a fader is up, LOL, but there are plenty of "decent" engineers, and a handful of great ones, but I'm a musician/producer first. For me, There has to be something there to record to begin with, regardless of the quality of the gear available. ;)
     
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