DIY Phantom powered Buffer for ribbon mics ? royer inspired)

Discussion in 'Microphones (live or studio)' started by jflojazz, Jan 2, 2006.

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  1. jflojazz

    jflojazz Guest

    Hi Yall
    So I Have this great invention in mind.
    A phantom powered Buffer for ribbon mics such as the Nady RSM-2 or Oktava ml-52 , beyer m130 etc.
    It is a preamp circuit (fet + 15 db or so + impedance buffer ( 6kOHMs or better) in the vein of the royer R 122 but can be used and plugged in between ANY ribbon mic and mixer and, Voila no need For a special preamp or worries about frying your ribbon mic cause you cant disabe phantom power on one channel at a time!
    Heres the catch I dont quite have the skills to figure this one out.
    ( If i could I would be getting a patent and making big $$$$$ cause this is an invention whose time has come.
    SO if any of you have an idea how to make such a utility lets put our collective minds together and give it a whirl.
    Just think you could run a ribbon right into your roland vs recorder or mackie vlz
    alongside 7 other pahntom powered condensers with no worries
    There is a circuit diagram in "the microphone Book" of the Royer r 122
    that would be a good starting point
    I am sure ther are a myriad of ways to accomlish this goal with the skills of an average DIY'er
    Let the race Begin!
  2. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    Nov 13, 2001
    You mean something like this


    Rode D-Power Plug Features:
    Instrumentation grade pre-amplifier.
    Balanced input and balanced output.
    Minimum losses over long cable runs.
    P48V phantom powered.
    Gain: +20 dB.
    Input Level (nominal): 1 mV.
    Output Level (nominal): 10 mV.
    Frequency Response: 20 Hz~20 kHz (-3 dB)
    Input impedance: 100 k ohm balanced/arm.
    Output Impedence: 100 ohm balanced.
    Noise: -116 dB A-Wt RTI.
    Max. Input: 0.8 Vp-p.
    Max. Output: +11.4 dBu @ 1% THD (8 Vp-p).
    Input Connector: XLR 3 PIN Female.
    Output Connector: XLR 3 PIN Male.
    Pin Assignment: Pin 1 GND,
    Pin 2 Signal (+),
    Pin 3 Signal (-).
    Current Consumption: 3 mA @ 48V.
    Weight approx.: 73.8 grm

    there are a few products out there ... some pass phantom and some not
    some are switchable

    and some are DIY
  3. barnee

    barnee Active Member

    Nov 29, 2005
    Does this Rode thing work properly ?

    What's the exact purpose of this?

    I do have a ribbon mic (RB500) and would have like it to be more...silent (hiss...). Is this Rode Powerplug appropriate?

    How many bucks for this gear?
  4. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    Nov 13, 2001
    I hope it works ??

    so I can't check for you
    For use with the typical ribbon you will need to check that it doesn't pass phantom
    send them an email

    what is it for ?

    Look at it as if it were a DI box with a little gain.

    Input impedance: 100 k ohm balanced/arm.
    Output impedance: 100 ohm balanced.

    It can impedance covert just like a DI box

    Gain: +20 dB.
    Increase the level so it should be easy to get overall gains of up to 70dB even with simple typical mic-pres

    Noise: -116 dB A-Wt RTI.
    potentially it could help you with hiss
    but would need to know more about what levels of gain
    and your recording methods to know if this will help you specifically

    ... and as they suggest ,
    is also good for very long cable runs
  5. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Well-Known Member

    Feb 23, 2005
    They have touted that puppy as a "long cable run" device for DYNAMIC mics. It will be interesting to find out if it does indeed pass the phantom power it uses to power it on to the mic that is connected.
    Kev, couldn't some sort of diode arrangement be rigged to keep DC from getting to the pins on a ribbon mic? Kind of like the diodes they use in stomp boxes to prevent a backwards-connected battery from blowing up a fuzzbox? Dumb question, I guess, but just curious...
  6. Eriksmusicproduction

    Eriksmusicproduction Active Member

    Oct 17, 2005
    I'm not Kev but no, diodes while blocking 48v dc from going to the mic would also stop half of the signal waveform from passing as well.

    The only thing that could stop only the phantom would be blocking capacitors, transformer or maybe an electronic circut such as an amplifier.
  7. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    Nov 13, 2001
    thanks Eric ... all correct
    but even the electronic, amplifier circuit will probably employ the caps method
    DC blocking caps is a common used term.

    moonbaby is quite right that Rode market this thing as a long run fix-it for dynamic mics

    but the basic idea is out there and been recycled a number of times both commercial and DIY
    A FET booster sort of thing to suit impedances or Ribbons then with an output to suite the typical 150 to 300 ohm mic pre ... gains of 10 to 20 as stated above.

    Shameless plug :shock:
    does Joe have one at the JLM Audio site ?
    if not ... ring or email him and tell him to get to it
    I know he has done this in the past
  8. barnee

    barnee Active Member

    Nov 29, 2005
    I've bought some Rode PowerPlugs.

    I didnt make a lot of tests on it... My Ribbon seems to still have th hiss being louder...

    I have to check again.

    The PowerPlug is Powered from the 48V. No power between the powerPlug and the microphone.

    The +20db thing...well...hum... I have to check again...
  9. MadMax

    MadMax Well-Known Member

    Mar 18, 2001
    Sunny & warm NC
    Home Page:
    Funny that I should come along and find this thread right now...

    I just got my SF12 back from Royer... some butthead must have (dis)connected the mic with phantom power on... (rat bastard) and then brought the mic back and NEVER told me. As a matter of fact, he said it worked and sounded GREAT!...

    At any rate, I talked to a Royer tech who relayed this from one of the engineers...

    He suggested that I take two 22uF, 100WVDC axial caps and put them in series with the signal +&-. I get his point, it blocks the phantom and passes the signal. 22uF should give enough bandwidth... As long as it's not a long run, the mic stays protected and minimal signal degeneration.

    I found caps that are small enough diameter to fit in a classic XLR gender changer shell at DigiKey... should be here in a few days. I think that the main thing to be concerned with is the polarity of the caps so that they are essentially in series... e.g. (negative)-cap+ Mic -cap+(positive)

    Kev, you're the tech's tech... any thoughts?

  10. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    Nov 13, 2001
    I'm doing three things at once here ... but if I have read that right I get

    Mic pin2 ... (-) 22uF, 100WVDC (+) ... pin2 Mic-pre
    Mic pin3 ... (-) 22uF, 100WVDC (+) ... pin3 Mic-pre

    Mic pin1 .............................................. pin3 Mic-pre

    Our signals are AC.
    HOWEVER the phantom is 48V DC and that's why I have pointed the caps at the source voltage.

    Some might prefer to see you use a BIPOLAR capactors
    use what is known as a Back to Back pair to create the 22uf cap

    but I feel the above look fine and is worth the try to save those mics.
    I wonder if it is worth have 2 resistors (1meg +) to drain any DC out of the caps ???
    I'll think on that.
  • Royer ribbon microphones - Why?

    Simply put, when you put a quality ribbon mic on an instrument, voice, or other sound source, what you hear on playback is closer to real sound in nature than with any other kind of microphone.

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