Dream 16 channel ADC

Discussion in 'Converters / Interfaces' started by Link555, Jul 2, 2020.

Tags:
  1. Link555

    Link555 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2007
    Location:
    North Vancouver
    Just curious what is your choice for a 16 channel 24bit 192kHz interface would be. What is the maximum latency you would accept?
     
  2. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Location:
    UK
    Home Page:
    For more than two channels, I don't go beyond 96KHz. I would be worried that 16 channels at 192KHz could easily turn into a nightmare..

    As for latency, I tend to think of it as a system property rather than due to any one piece of gear. If live monitoring is done in the front-end hardware, studio tracking work and effect loops can be latency-compensated, so that the actual millisecond figure has less importance.
     
    Link555 likes this.
  3. bouldersound

    bouldersound Real guitars are for old people. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2010
    Location:
    Boulder, Colorado
    Home Page:
    The Apollo 16 is pretty nice. With built-in effects it allows very low latency monitoring with eq, reverb etc. that use the on board optimized processing instead of going through the CPU.
     
    audiokid and Link555 like this.
  4. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Location:
    Boston, Massachusetts
    Home Page:
    The antelope OrionHD catches my eye due to high channel count, impresseive advertised specs, and the ability to load dsp pluggins directly into your session on MacOS. It ticks alot of boxes.

    The burl mothership is also something cool, with a variety of sonic choices, and mix and match modules. Alot of people seem to like it. I've not seen latency specs on it for any of the connections.

    Those would be my top two intersts as far as audio quality.

    If price/performance were the main objective apollo 16 is tough to beat. Although latency is dependant on which dsp plugs your using.

    As far as latency goes i like the idea of sub 3ms, although i *think* up to 10ms RTL isn't a problem for me ive never truly measured.

    I hate to say it, but for commercial studio tracking id probably go HDX if i recall they have like .7ms latency. Tho i am uncertain if its roundtrip.

    Since all the units have little to no vsti on dsp, i would assume a slave pc for that with VEP, which can be set to add no additional buffer to the session buffer.
     
    Link555 and audiokid like this.
  5. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2000
    Location:
    BC, Canada
    Home Page:
    RME HD MADI pcie 32 interface card (there are a few choices)
    A Fast PC
    16 channel MADI converter with tascam Dsub I/O

    To accomplish speed, dependability and low latency.. the pcie card is just as important. When I got that part right, the converters I had, rocked as expected.

    My advise would to consider a converter that goes well with known interface cards.
     
  6. Link555

    Link555 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2007
    Location:
    North Vancouver
    Anyone into Radar still or has the shipped sailed?
     
  7. Makzimia

    Makzimia The Minstrel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2014
    Location:
    Keighley, England
    Home Page:
    Radar caught the last ship for the moon :).
     
    audiokid likes this.
  8. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2000
    Location:
    BC, Canada
    Home Page:
    I wouldn’t bother. Belongs (in the grave) along with the Antelope Audio 10m archives
     
  9. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    i see a lot of Radar systems for sale in Nashville. i suppose storage is the culprit for their becoming outdated. if they were to update them to run on flash cards or usb sticks they would still be popular. are the hard drives they use getting difficult to source? i personally love the concept. a stand alone digital multi track that needs no computer.
     
  10. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2000
    Location:
    BC, Canada
    Home Page:
    To my understanding Radar is still a computer on Windows platform. It's a pre-configured, very dated (no disrespect intended) and totally ridiculous system for those either not interested or able to figure out how to build a modern rig that would smoke a Radar system for much less $.
    I don't believe you can update software without glitching stability very easily, and you likely would never sell it for anywhere near what you paid or pay for it. I'm amazed its use has lasted this long.
    Mixerman and Radar shills pushed it on RO years ago like it was some special DAW for the elete hoping and predicting it would rival Pro Tools (aka Alsihad > All he had) :rolleyes: .
    Don't waste a dime on it.
     
  11. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Location:
    UK
    Home Page:
    How does the number of Radar boxes you see for sale compare with the number of Alesis HD24s? The disk drives for the HD24 are not really a problem to obtain (yet), but may become so as solid-state drives completely replace rotating drives in desktop PCs, having already done so in laptops.
     
    audiokid likes this.
  12. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    it's seems to be about the same. i confess my ignorance. are the hard drives same or different types on Radars and Alesis? i'm pretty sure Alesis uses IDE drives.
     
  13. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Location:
    Boston, Massachusetts
    Home Page:
    It seems the system is not so popular anymore, but interestingly (to me at least) people still talk about liking the sound of the conversion in interviews i see till this day.

    I venture to guess that the need for project sharing is probably the biggest reason for its fading usage.
     
    Kurt Foster likes this.
  14. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    that's a good point. what about file formats? if they were to implement flash card or usb ports it would be a simple thing to move files provided the files are compatible. a pro standard for all recording applications would be nice. i know Alesis has a proprietary file format. it would be nice if everything were WAVE files just to make it simple. after all, storage is not the issue it was in the past.
     
    kmetal likes this.
  15. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Location:
    Boston, Massachusetts
    Home Page:
    Im not sure which format radar uses. Im pretty sure that The Black Keys 'Brothers' album was recorded on a Radar system the engineer brought into Muscle Shoals for the sessions. Then Tchad Blake mixed it in Pro Tools. This was in like 2010.

    So my guess would be it records to .wav

    Alot of times mixers like Andrew Scheps, will take the Pro Tools session from the client and work directly off that, instead of importing the audio into his own template.

    Plus there's a thing now called 'vocal producer' where a producer will be hired exclusively to produce vocals. I discovered this in a Pensado's Place episode with a member of Maroon 5.

    In the new Lady Gaga album they rented 2 rooms in the studio (henson?) And one engineer mixed the music, the other the vocals only... They bounced back and forth until it was done.

    I agree it would be great to have a unifying session format. It gets tough tho when samplitude has a feature like object based editing, and PTHdx has the dsp, apollo requires hardware too for the dsp.

    OMF i think its called is the closest we have to exporting session data across various daws, but i was told it wasn't uber reliable back in '09 or so.

    I guess there could be an option to 'print' all settings not available in the destination daw. So Samplitude would print the object based settings when exporting, or PT would print the dsp or swap to its native version of the effect.

    Backing up the session, raw audio, effects printed audio, and at both unity and mix levels seems to be the safest way i have thought of to do long term archives.
     
  16. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2000
    Location:
    BC, Canada
    Home Page:
    To specialize in producing vocals (female) bass and drums has always been my desire. It was my intention to do this with my last two-daw rig. I think its a brilliant concept likely to grow.
     
  17. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    you think on a different track than i do Kyle. you're line of thought is including plug ins incorporated into session files while my thinking is plain raw data sans any plugs. i don't like plugs. i think they have short shelf life and are too dependent on the update cycles in the systems they were originated on. i want something that can run sessions i did 20 years ago if i need. for me legacy is a consideration. the older one becomes, the more important long term use becomes. i prefer using hardware. all i want a recording system to do is record and edit. i want to mix on a sled with dedicated outboard. i just feel that has the sustainability and most important the sound i like.
     
  18. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Location:
    Boston, Massachusetts
    Home Page:
    Yea its interesting the niche's that are developing with portable setups and remote mixing. I've always felt i captured good, emotional takes and sonics for vocals, but lack a real true sense of harmony and melody, to be a top notch vocal producer. Im more of a singer's assistant in that regard. Tossing out ideas or watever.

    Its funny that editing in PT was a niche for a time. Some of my albums from the early 2000's have PT editor as a credited position.

    It will be interesting to see if this collaboration ability increases homogeneity, or promotes unique things. I suspect both.

    Yeah i think 2 ways. Long term, and during project duration. I think the fast changing nature of things requires diligent backup, and saving in a variety of forms/states.

    What's intersting about cheap storage, is you can save the outtakes, and go back later and construct parts from them.

    If i had money and room for a mixer id go with the Harrison fully recallable one. I mixed on a digital mixer for a few years and loved the immediacy and recall.

    I binged on plugs because i have the opportunity to get everything i want. I pretty much fufilled that. I will slowly bleed away that collection, to a few favorites, or move to just stock.

    I feel i may one day be unable to afford anything, and can picture a switch to reaper, stock plugs, and watever samples i have that make it that far.

    Legacy became important to me when some of my work is vanished, and i have 15 years of stuff scattered across various hdds, studios, and daws. Some of which require pro tools hardware to work. At least the wav files (should be) there to start a new mix with. Ive got a couple hundred records, couple hundred tapes, and few hundred CDs, that all need to be transferred to hard disk. Ive learned its critical to keep archiving as you go, so things remain accessible and fluid.

    My ideal right now is actually no desk. No rack. Nothing but a small keyboard tray for the key/mouse. I love the idea of an un-impeaded pathway for sound between ear and speaker. I like digitally controlled analog, tho not the price. Normandy never sounded better than when the control room was fully treated, but empty. It was life changing for me.

    Its somewhat of a compromise no tactile mixer, but clearer sound path. No free lunch.

    My hiatus has allowed me to get in touch with music listening for fun again, and to cater my gear desires to personal taste.
     
    audiokid likes this.
  19. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    +1
     
    Davedog, kmetal and audiokid like this.
  20. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Location:
    UK
    Home Page:
    Yes, the HD24 was designed around IDE (or PATA) drives. I believe the Radar system used similar drives (since it was basically a PC inside, from around the same vintage).

    These days, you can get SATA caddies for the HD24, and they work well. They can even take solid-state drives, as long as you are very careful about the model of drive you put in them.
     
    Kurt Foster likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice