Expert sugguestions on an advanced guitar recording setup

Discussion in 'Guitars' started by Jp22, Aug 3, 2005.

  1. buttachunk

    buttachunk Guest

    Michael,

    In the perfect digital situation, you are correct. In the real world analog realm... that is not the case. Please try this yourself with 2 analog eqs. The noise you are hearing is not phase shift, it is due to those frequencies being closer to the noise floor before being amplified again. From your description it seems you don't believe in noise floor.

    Look at it this way; in the analog realm, if you lower the volume of a signal below unity you are decreasing it's dynamic range; the difference from loud to relative silence has diminished.
     
  2. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2002
    Location:
    NYC New York
    Home Page:
    Again, you are hearing the noise induced by the device you are using. If you reduce a frequency, you are also reducing the noise floor of that frequency. The relationship stays the same. This is a linear process. If you take a stack of cards and raise or lower it in regards to height. the relationship of the bottom card is still the same to the top card no matter where you put it. If your EQ changes this relationship, there is something wrong with your eq or you are using it beyond the bounds of its ability or resolution. Don't mistake inability for fact.
     
  3. buttachunk

    buttachunk Guest

    That is absolutely not true in the analog realm. In analog gear, your fader or pot is (generally) connected to your source and your ground. A 'wiper' is moved back and forth from the source to the ground. The closer you get to ground, the lower the dynamic range is. When you try to boost that signal again, you are raising the noise floor.

    In an analog EQ, the noise floor does NOT go down with the frequency-- it can not go down below the ground, which is connected to the ground of all of the other gear in your studio (hopefully,, if you've connected it all properly).
     
  4. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2002
    Location:
    NYC New York
    Home Page:
    Again, you are mistaking inability as fact. The better the gear, the more ability.
     
  5. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2002
    Location:
    NYC New York
    Home Page:
    Do you regularly eq things down to ground? When was the last time you had to cut a frequecy so far that you hit the noise floor of ground?
     
  6. buttachunk

    buttachunk Guest

    Every time you subtractively EQ, you bring the signal level of the selected frequencies closer to ground.

    If you put that signal into another EQ and boost those frequencies back, you will be boosting noise because those frequencies were previously closer to ground and therefore the noisefloor.

    I can't explain this anymore-- please re-read the earlier posts or other sources about this.
     
  7. buttachunk

    buttachunk Guest

    Not exactly... Mackie's have better specs than most vintage Neves. Does that make them better ?
     
  8. buttachunk

    buttachunk Guest

    Also, I must add that some analog EQs have the pot wiper actually controlling what is called 'feedback' for an opamp or similar circuit. What that means is it sends the output back in to the input, but with inverted polarity. This variably cancels out the sound *in relation* to the ground/noise floor.
     
  9. McCheese

    McCheese Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2005
    You're contradicting yourself yet again. Go team!
     
  10. GregP

    GregP Guest

    buttachunk, I hope what you're posting is just miscommunication. You seem like a smart enough fellow that I hope you'll re-read everyone's points and your own, and see if you still feel correct.

    I've blown the mission several times with false reasoning, but whenever it's finally drilled into my head, I'll say, "CRAP! 10 pages later and you're right after all!" I'm a real @$$ sometimes when defending my incorrect point, which you have so far pretty much avoided, so kudos for that! I just hope you realize your error sooner than the 10 pages it sometimes takes me. ;)

    JP-- after reading that hilarious quote about your metel (sic) sound, I know for sure now that you're not for real. :hihi: Cheers for at least restoring my faith in humanity. For a while there I was sure that you are actually serious, and I was getting worried.

    JP defenders-- I do understand your perspective... it's always hard to see someone get mobbed, because it seems very unfair and a very unbalanced battle. However, I don't feel too much remorse because if you look at his posts, he initiated much of the abuse himself. Just because he's now been mobbed, does that excuse his attitude toward other people? So... I relate to how you feel, but come on now... he's no victim here. Besides that, he's not even for real. ;)

    Greg
     
  11. buttachunk

    buttachunk Guest

    not sure exactly what you mean by that... don't know how I can be any clearer...

    how about this;

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise_floor


    do you all understand that the noise floor of a piece of analog gear cannot be turned down below the noise of ground ?

    you cannot use an analog EQ to EQ its own noise floor down, as has been suggested...... its noise floor is the sum of the noise generated by the ground and its internal parts (power supply, transistors/opamps/tubes). Ground is the lowest point-- it is the "bottom" of your fader. It doesn't get any lower than that, with the possible exception of an unconnected lead (which is rarely used in modern gear)...
     
  12. buttachunk

    buttachunk Guest

    Jp, please don't do that
     
  13. buttachunk

    buttachunk Guest

    please edit that post to not provoke the nuking of this thread.
     
  14. Leon_Willett

    Leon_Willett Guest

    I don't want a "HA HA!" teashirt anymore. :(
     
  15. Jp22

    Jp22 Guest

    Can you say TOAST?
     
  16. buttachunk

    buttachunk Guest

    Jp,

    I understand that you are mad at these people for picking on you, but I think that opinions are starting to turn around. Now is not the time to nuke this thread.
     
  17. buttachunk

    buttachunk Guest

    Well, you started the thread, so it's your call. I hope you will let the thread continue long enough for many of these people to realize how wrong they've been.
     
  18. Jp22

    Jp22 Guest

    HAHA! Now thats a good one! You really think these people are smart enough for that? I'd say roughly 85% of them have basically proven themselves pretty much worthless. Theres nothing worse than people who have egos too large for their own good.... and all those same types in large groups are just one giant tragedy waiting to happen. Behold the stupidity for yourself, watch the destruction!
     
  19. buttachunk

    buttachunk Guest

    some are-- I saw some truthful apologies start to come out a few pages ago.

    again, it's your call.
     
  20. Jp22

    Jp22 Guest

    In all actuality this topic I created is a perfect example of how your planet is not ready for the total truth to unfold or be known yet....

    A. Man tries to get to space.

    B. Man's spaceship blows up.

    You think hes ready for Mars? Venus? Saturn?

    ahahahaha

    yeah

    Riiight

    The cause?

    The remaining tiles were pasted on the outside of the spaceship with Elmer's paper glue because they ran out of "the right stuff".

    True story.

    "There was a demon that lived in the air. They said whoever challenged him would die. Their controls would freeze up, their planes would buffet wildly, and they would disintegrate. The demon lived at Mach 1 on the meter, seven hundred and fifty miles an hour, where the air could no longer move out of the way. He lived behind a barrier through which they said no man could ever pass. They called it the sound barrier." - 4 Oscars, 4 wins & 11 nominations
     
  • AT5047

    The New AT5047 Premier Studio Microphone Purity Transformed

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice