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Final / Master reverb placement.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Makzimia, Dec 19, 2017.

  1. Makzimia

    Makzimia The Minstrel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 20, 2014
    Location:
    Hyde, England
    I have a permanent quandary over placement of a master level reverb. My live side wants to put it last, as after all, you don't actually control the reverb of a real environment. So, I am curious, do you all put it after a limiter/maximiser or before?.

    Cheers,

    Tony
     
  2. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    BC, Canada
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    I put it in on my master section before limiter.
     
  3. Makzimia

    Makzimia The Minstrel Well-Known Member

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    @audiokid Chris, I do too, but I keep doubting the reality of that. Seriously, we spend time these days artificially creating sound environments then we try to throttle them?. There is no limiter in a theatre, at a concert etc.. are we wrong to do that?.. just me twisting my grey matter again :).

    Of course I’m not allowing for the music then being played loud in such an environment :-/.

    Tony
     
  4. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

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    @audiokid @Makzimia
    I'd have to default to Chris's method here, Tony, as I can count on one hand the number of times I've added reverb to my master bus. It's just never really been a common part of my workflow, though plenty of guys I respect do incorporate it in their mix layouts.. then again, I'm sure I'd probably use this workflow more if I was using a Bricasti like Chris is. ;)
    Though... I would imagine that using the verb before the limiter would also mean mixing into the gain reduction, and monitoring it as you mix, because there would be the possibility that slapping a limiter on last would really bring out lower level sonics...and if you set your reverb first, getting what you feel is a good level and wet/dry ratio, that could change if you put the limiter on after the fact...because that's what gain reduction does - it limits the "loud" and brings up the "soft".
    I'm not saying to change the order of the processing...I'm suggesting that it would be better to set your reverb level and ratio while the limiter is on, too ... as opposed to adding the gain reduction last after you've gotten a mix.
    I'm not suggesting that you or Chris don't do this already, I mention this more for those who might do a future search on this topic and who maybe don't do this...I know that mixing into gain reduction is already a part of Chris's mix method, and yours, too, because I've heard you say that you do in some of your past posts. ;)

    -d.
     
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  5. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    To my ears, applying a stereo reverb on the master bus gives the most realistic and open sounding mix.
    You of course need to choose the appropriate reverb but that’s what I do 100% of the time now.
    And you of course can also use that same verb for individual tracks or bus lanes and you can also use other reverbs that compliment the mix too. But, I alway use a master verb at the end of a mix.
    How much reverb do I use? Just enough so you can’t tell I am using it ;). Once mastered it’s usually just prefect.
    I always put a (fabfilter) limiter “subtlety” at the end of a mix.

    Best thing to do is trust your ears and do what sounds right to you. I also turn lights down when I am criticle listening. I don’t trust my eyes lol.
     
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  6. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

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    I do the exact same thing. I don't even know why, I just like doing it. I also listen at several different levels, 85db, 65-70db, and also one that is VERY low volume, so soft of a level that it could be drowned out by someone whispering to me.
     
  7. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    (y)
    in mono as well!

    But, there is something to be said about the Fletcher-Munson curves. I always end up at a set db which is where I trust my work the most. How about others?
     
  8. Makzimia

    Makzimia The Minstrel Well-Known Member

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    I have a good DB meter and I go for a level in my tiny room of 70-78db at loudest. If I can have a conversation without raising my voice, and I mono too, then I can hear each bit as it should sit. Of course, as I have now proven, The Ozone 8 Tonal Control works a real treat!.
     
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  9. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

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    My "set" level is somewhere between 70-75db. I do check at higher levels 85db for the FM cu, in both stereo and mono, and at "whisper" levels, too. But I seem to land around 73db or so as the "common" working level that I trust in my space.
    But yeah, I check at various levels in both stereo and mono. :)
     
    audiokid likes this.
  10. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

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    Dec 10, 2001
    Location:
    Pacific NW
    I feel there's a sweet spot in any environment where the output isn't summing something in the room and things are clearly defined. Even though I check at a lot of different volumes, this sweet spot is the one I use for all critical balances.

    Lately I find myself adding that last bit of reverb on the masters and ALWAYS before the final limiting. I want to get that sense of space and it's never very much...It's also ALWAYS different in nature than any time based effects I may have used on individual tracks. I never use any effects across the sub-busses, only an occasional EQ and certainly a compressor/limiter ...

    To my ear, when you have the final reverb last in your chain, you're artificially driving the "space" and unless you're being very careful and particular about what frequencies your limiter might be subjecting itself to, you get an artificially colored sounding environment. Of course, this can also be what you might be going for as a producer!!
     
    JayTerrance and audiokid like this.
  11. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    Dave, you and I are hand in hand in near everything now. Cheers!
     
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