Getting more balls!!!!

Discussion in 'Microphones (live or studio)' started by Rolo06, Jan 10, 2007.

  1. Rolo06

    Rolo06 Guest

    Ok Here is the deal. the mix sounds great and its time to master the song, i use the L3 Multimaximizer for an overall mix on the song. But my problem is the volume of the song is not loud as it should be. and if i saturate it so much it ends up peaking. SUGGESTIONS ANYONE.
  2. Rolo06

    Rolo06 Guest

    suggestions anyone plz, if anyone asks i am using pro-tools LE. :?
  3. Cosme

    Cosme Guest


    This link helped me very much, it's a tutorial posted by the people that made the har-bal plugin. It works very well except for the har bal that really sucks. Use everything else and instead of the har bal use a two band equalizer, find (with a large Q factor) the frequency that most bothers your ears just when you feel that your ears are about to explode(normally around 2.5K) then attenuate it a bit, then find (with a small q factor) the frequency range that makes everything sound totally muddy (normaly around 100-200 Hz) and attenuate it a bit as well. Those parts of the frequency range are the ones that distort first in the compressing and maximizing process. The rest is shown at the link
  4. Rolo06

    Rolo06 Guest

    wow i didnt know all that can be done, it makes much sense now, but its great, hey thanks for the info.

  5. Cosme

    Cosme Guest

    Yep, your problem was the fact that you used only a limiter. The L3 multimaximizer is a multiband limiter, this is like a very radical multiband compressor, with a very high ratio , so it turns up the volume pretty much but without a correct compression process and nice cleaning with eq, it only brings the mix up to the point of distortion. You must first compress your mix, take away some dynamics so that you have a whole lot of headroom to use in limiting, don't overuse it, by the way analize your mix and see the average loudness levels, that'll tell you the threshold level in the limiting process, I recommend the ultramaximizer instead of the multimaximizer.
  6. amishsixstringer

    amishsixstringer Member

    Feb 22, 2006
    I followed that link and...YIKES! Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. Tutorials like that are the exact reason that records sound like $*^t today. Almost NEVER does it tell you to listen for distortion or anything...It just says look at your spectrum and cut the spikes out...What if the song has a really driving bass or kick drum or snare drum that makes the song what it is? Let's cut that $*^t and make everything as loud and flat as possible to get as close to white noise as we can. WHY? Then it goes on to tell you shifting phase/stereo field to make both channels have equal RMS. WHAT?! What if there's a guitar panned hard left and nothing in the right side? So, we should shift the whole song right until the RMS is equal? Now the snare drum is wayyy off center, the vocal is off center and burried in some garbage guitar. Then, you have to have -10dBRMS as your average. So, find your average and subtract 10 from it and SMASH THE ^#$% OUT OF IT with your limiter until it's that loud...? It doesn't work that way. Sometimes (usually) if a mix sounds decent and you have a touch of compression on it and just knick the top 1 or 2dB off the tops you'll end up with RMS around -10 or 11 in a really dense pop style song. But, if you're finding that you need to push your limiter to cut 7dB off the tops then you have way more ^#$%ing problems than just getting the song to be loud. Also, the multiband compressor settings they come up with is comical. "Just play with the attack until the squiggly lines are horizantal and moving in unison" or some bs like that. ^#$% listening to the song, the secret is in the squiggly lines. You could actually master a song with this method without turning your speakers on. Honestly, you'd be much better off the opposite...Master a song without looking at a single meter. You'll be a lot happier. Trust your ears. God Damn I get pissed off easily sometimes.

    Better yet...if you don't know how mastering works send it to someone who does, because the art of mastering music takes YEARS AND YEARS before getting decent. I don't even try to master my band's material, but I sure hell wouldn't just stare at a computer screen's squiggly lines if I did.

    End Rant.

  7. Cosme

    Cosme Guest

    I agree, most of the tutorial sucks because it's a tutorial from har-bal, what can I say!, but hey it's big help in understanding the compressing and limiting process, the rest is up to your ears! It's always up to your hearing in the end
  8. Rolo06

    Rolo06 Guest


    i am just asking for a suggestion, i am not asking to show me how to master a song, ive done mastering before, but i had never recorded rock. rock obvously has much more balls than mexican norteño music. YOu dont have to get all ^#$%ing pissed about it.
  9. amishsixstringer

    amishsixstringer Member

    Feb 22, 2006
    It really has less to do with your question and more to do with people who are very ignorant trying to give people information as if they have this long successful history of making/mastering records. Giving bad advice to people who really do want to learn. I don't tell people how to grow tomatos...because I don't really know that much about growing tomatos. So, why do people feel compelled to give people advice that is clearly without any substantial background and treat it as gospel? It happens a lot and it bothers me. Besides, getting pissed is good. People not being pissed off is the reason GW is still the president and the reason I'm paying 2.43 for a gallon of gasoline.

  10. Rolo06

    Rolo06 Guest

    ok about ignorant people, that does freak the ^#$% out of me too, but cosme pretty much just showed me a link which did help me open my eyes about how many things can be done, well that doesnt matter anymore.

  11. natural

    natural Active Member

    Jul 21, 2006
    Someone once said:
    'To get more balls, you need more backbone.'

    I think that works on all levels right?
  12. Cosme

    Cosme Guest

    I don't know if when you mentioned ignorant people you ment me, but hey, I'm not a mastering engineer but I had the same problem that Rolo no so long ago and some of what is in the link worked for me and now I'm getting cool results after experimenting a lot of ways of using this material, so sorry just trying to help out!
  13. natural

    natural Active Member

    Jul 21, 2006
    I pretty sure he was referring to the link.
    It's one thing to give advise, like 'try this and that, and if you're doing this, then try that, and if that doesn't work, here's plan B. That's fine.
    But when you come across people that say,' here's the settings that you should dial in to get the best result no matter what.' Well, that's just silly. While there might be some good info in that link, it should be prefaced with 'you need to know what you're doing and why you're doing it'. And even then, you might need to do several hunderd sessions before it starts to make sense and you start getting favorable, predictable results.
    It's like those songwritting books. "Write 2 verses, then a chorus, then another verse..... blah blah blah, and now you have a great work of art. It just doesn't work that way.
    Every situation is different. There are so many variables, you just can't cover all the bases in one article.
    Like all artistic decisions, what works for one doesn't work for all.
    And amishsixstringer might have just been having one of those days and was really just trying to help in his own way.
  14. amishsixstringer

    amishsixstringer Member

    Feb 22, 2006
    Natural, you pretty much nailed it. I wasn't calling anyone on here ignorant at all. More directed towards the 2 page end all mastering tutorial. I have bitter days...every day pretty much. I'm fine with it.

  15. Cosme

    Cosme Guest

    Ok sorry for the missunderstanding, actually what you say totally makes sense, It sucks that we have to live with these overcompressed, overlimited masters, we know it's not the best way to go but it's what the record labels and the general crowd mostly like. Take care!, Rolo play around with those master settings until you get the result you like it'll come around somehow
  16. alimoniack

    alimoniack Guest

    Yeah, you DO have to get pissed about it. Nice one Neil hehe!
  17. Rolo06

    Rolo06 Guest

    Hey by the way, yesterday i went to the studio and tried something different, like miking techniques and they do actually work, there is just one thing i wasnt too sure about. I dont know if you guys have heard mexican music. Its sort like country but with accordion. Well when you hear this music, your like thats easy to record and mix etc. but the deal is that this kind of music pretty much gets mixed real different from all the other types of genres. The drums dont use reverb, and well getting a dry tight and snappy thick snare sound its pretty difficult. And the bass has to be pretty loud with lots of balls. later ill show you what i am talking about. I am still working on getting a good bass sound. its thick and all the notes have to be heard clearly, any suggestions?ive done it but not been totally sure about it.

    Kruva 8)
  18. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    Dec 10, 2001
    Pacific NW
    Hey! I know about that kind of music. And yeah, the bass carries all the changes. Thats not easy to do. The very best thing to get even close is an older Fender P-bass with flatwounds A Fender Bassman or Ampeg head, with a small single speaker cabinet...perferably a 10 or a 12....A very high-end DI, and if possible a Re-Amp unit to repair it later. You're also going to need a compressor that is fast and adjustable. Fast, because unlike rock music and such, the bass in that style is MOVING and pumping the beat and the changes constantly.

    Like you said...every note has to be audible. The bass is your best bet right off. A player who frets blurring ....and the compressor.

    Run the amp at a low level....Something that doesnt distort the speaker cone. Mic it with a dynamic mic. Electrovoice RE20, ATM25, AKG D12, A condenser like a U87 Neumann with the pad on....Something with significant bass response
    that will remain tight and sensitive and not get blown out by the lowend.

    Tight is the point of this. The DI must be a good one as it needs to give a nice round and complete bass sound.

    Mix between the mic'd and the DI. Compress both. Tighten it till it hurts. Back off a half a number...fill the holes with everything else.

    Use a pick on the bass if the fingers arent working. Use a heavy pick to eliminate the click sound.Unless it helps with the rhythm.
  19. Ballz

    Ballz Guest

    I KNEW if I got rid of thos squiggly lines everything would pan out!
    Ha ha ha ha ha

    Bob Katz would roll over in his grave if he read that tutorial!!

    errrr.....Bob's not dead.....replace grave with bathtub
  20. Rolo06

    Rolo06 Guest

    hey davedog

    well thats good that you know wut i am talking about. Ive always recorded the bass through an avalon compressor then to the mixer and it did work fine but the notes were not that audible. thanks for your suggestion ill try miking the bass hopefully that will work for me. ill post a link with a specific sound im trying to go for.

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