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getting singer-songwriter to play in time

Discussion in 'Vocals' started by osmuir, Jan 14, 2002.

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  1. osmuir

    osmuir Active Member

    Apr 3, 2001
    so i'm working with a very talented girl who needs help in the gtr-time dept.

    what is the best way to coach someone for yr experience?

  2. Richard Kuschel

    Richard Kuschel Active Member

    Aug 15, 2001
    This is going to be a tough one. first, she must want to play in time.

    If so, a click track would work, but most beginners claim that it "ruins their feel".

    Totally false, but it takes some time to play on top of or behind the beat consistantly.

    Another musician would be a help as would having her try to overdub a track to show how important keeping a semblence of correct time is to building a song.

    Once the hurdle of determining that is cleared, then a drum machine or a percussion player to help her establish consistant rhythm patterns.
  3. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    Feb 10, 2001
    Whip & a chair?

  4. adam_w1

    adam_w1 Guest

    Try beating them (in time, of course) with a stick. Use a smaller stick for a girl, as they are more fragile. :D
  5. adam_w1

    adam_w1 Guest

    Damn you Standen, replying while I type. Great minds think alike !
  6. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    Nov 13, 2001
    Originally posted by adam_w1:
    Damn you Standen, replying while I type. Great minds think alike !

    Yep Julian does that and the new Cable modem just makes him quicker than ever.

    On day he will fall asleep ..... and then we will miss him???

  7. Irene

    Irene Guest

    Is it possible that it's nerves? I worked with a guitarist who's timing was impeccable until the dreaded 'record' button was hit and then his hands turned into pretzels. The bigger the studio the badder the timing. So maybe techniques to get her relaxed?
    Sometimes it can be a way of getting more time and attention too.
    Definitely needs to get sorted though and rigorous practice a la Standen technique are required.

  8. jriggs

    jriggs Guest

    We actually record every single artist to a click track. We use the PT internal click. If they can't get the timing right away, we burn them a copy of whatever scratch tracks we have, with the clik and let them take it home and practice. Next session is almost always right on.
  9. Masternfool

    Masternfool Active Member

    Dec 3, 2001
    Stand next to her with a pot and a wooden hammer....lol..um anyway..I second or third the click..click..click..click..have her make love to a click...now thats an idea...gotta go... :eek:
  10. waitgoiter

    waitgoiter Guest

    Now now -- all this click track stuff is a bit fascist.

    If you can just play bass or percussion along with her -- a better sense of time will probably develop. People who play by themselves all the time have a screwed up sense of timing.

    Having somebody that you like play along with you is much nicer than being sent home with a metronome and told to "eat your vegetables."

    If she can't play along with someone else in time then it's just a lost cause. :D
  11. A click track usually only works for artists who already have good time and studio experience. For
    those who need time help I make midi drum tracks
    with the right feel for what they're doing-sometimes I even program a bass track also depending on the style and needs of the track.
    It's work but it pays off tremendously in the final product.
  12. Ted Nightshade

    Ted Nightshade Active Member

    Dec 9, 2001
    Cluck Fick tracks. Or is that clack ^#$% tricks?
    I learned long ago, two people constitute a groove. Very rare for a solo artist to really groove- I think like Ravi Shankar said, music is the space between two souls.
    I guess I'm a ritardando for not tolerating click tracks- look what they did to Keith Moon! That's some weak drumming on "Baba O'Riley", especially for Keith Moon! So the guy was human!
    Jam along on a scratch track, or if it's good keep it! Is it good?
    Ted :p
  13. Todd Farone

    Todd Farone Active Member

    Jul 27, 2001
    Apparently, they aren't making elementary and middle school band teachers as violent as they used to...I had a couple good ones back in the day!
  14. Hack

    Hack Active Member

    Mar 20, 2001
    Little Rock, AR
    Teach them to tap their foot then, for beginner guitar players its good to help them find a struming pattern that sotra works with the tapping foot in 4/4. Such as:

    Down on beat 1
    Down on beat 2
    Up on the & of beat 2
    Up on the & of beat 3
    Down on beat 4
    Up on the & of beat 4

    Don't confuse them with counting yet, just help them find beat 1.
    Make them a click track where beat 1 is accented. This is a very good exercise for beginner guitar players. "Every Rose has its Thorn" by Poision is perfect to learn to play and sing with this strumming pattern. Almost every single lyrical accent falls on a strum. In fact you will be amazed at how many vocal rhythms go perfectly with this struming pattern.
  15. Ted Nightshade

    Ted Nightshade Active Member

    Dec 9, 2001
    Foot tapping! (drilled into me by high school band director)
    Would you have made John Lee Hooker and Robert Johnson play "in time"? :eek:
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