Good article in latest Recording Magazine - rec'ng drums

Discussion in 'Drums' started by poprocks, Jun 30, 2005.

  • AT5047

    The New AT5047 Premier Studio Microphone Purity Transformed

  1. jamiey

    jamiey Guest

    pop, I just don't get it, this doesn't seem like a new technique at all. people have ALWAYS used delay to fatten or tighten up sounds, haven't they? Just now they do it visually, as if that actually helps. Sometimes having the different drum tracks more seperate from each other makes the final sound more 'tight' and 'in-phase'.
     
  2. TheArchitect

    TheArchitect Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2005
    Location:
    Ohio
    You don't need reverb or delay on a killer vocalist but we use it don't we? If we need eq and reverb on the kit we didn't exactly nail the engineering of the track so we use these tools to fix those issues. This is no different in my view. Could a perfect performance with perfect engineering benefit from it? Does the technique add something to a mix? No one is denying that a great performance properly recorded can sound great as is. Thats not the point. Can this technique take that to an even higher level? I haven't tried it yet so I don't know but to dismiss it outright seems contradictory to why I at least got into audio recording.
     
  3. frob

    frob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2004
    some times the best thing you can do is turn off your screen.
     
  4. RecorderMan

    RecorderMan Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2001
    Cool, I'll try and make it.

    "My" band (I'm the P&E) is playing @ The Gig Hollywood. 7302 Melrose Ave. Hollywood, CA. 90010... (323) 936-4440

    For Len Fagan's & Music Connection's Series.

    UNsure of which slot yet..let's trade attendance!!

    Peace.
     
  5. Antho

    Antho Guest

    Can Someone please explain exactly how this technique is used: step by step would be great.

    Does it use standard lic placement? How many mics usually involved with this technique? Which ones out of phase exactly? Can they be put out of phase after recording? etc.

    Many thanks.
     
  6. Antho

    Antho Guest

    Can Someone please explain exactly how this technique is used: step by step would be great.

    Does it use standard lic placement? How many mics usually involved with this technique? Which ones out of phase exactly? Can they be put out of phase after recording? etc.

    Many thanks.

    i like others agree we can use whatever the heck we can get our hands on to improve an already good sound!

    To say otherwise is like saying the recordists of the days of yore should not have used panning! It's ridiculous.
     
  7. frob

    frob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2004
    are you talking about the recorderman method?
     
  8. jobu2u

    jobu2u Guest

    yes recorderman, PLEASE

    I hate to trouble you but could you possibly reiterate your drum mic'ing method? I did see your original post/explanation, and I actually have tried it a few times. I think I'm still slightly unclear as to the exact placements. Perhaps you have a picture or diagram somewhere?

    Thanks so much! :cool:
     
  9. Chance

    Chance Guest

    with regards to the in-phase out of phase thing. In my personal experiences, when a source is heard by 2 mics that are recorded, there will be conflict. An example of this is overhead mics, or top & bottom mics on a snare I've posted this somewhere here before. Your local TV news actually use this conflict to their advantage. In a news helicoptor, there are 2 mics. One for the newscaster, and one for the ambient sound within the helicoptor. The 2 mics are IN PHASE and the newscaster's vox mic cancells out the noise (ambient mic) inside the helicoptor,
     
  10. RecorderMan

    RecorderMan Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2001
    hmmm..chance..they would flip one so that they are out-of-phase..to cancell what is common in both mics. In this case that would be the ambient noise. Since the announcer is only in one mic..his/her voice is not cancelled.
     
  11. Chance

    Chance Guest

    I stand corrected (old-timers desease) now days they are also using compression too where the newscaster's vox brings the ambient noise down much in the way announcers cut in and talk over music
     
  12. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    I remember reading years ago how "The Band" did the same thing with Levon helms vocals ... He would sing at the same time they recorded drums and rhythm tracks, so the would put a mic out of phase with the vocal mic to cancel out the drum kit from the vocal track.

    "Cowboy" Jack Clement also used the same phenomenon when tracking vocals sans headphones ... Mono cue mix, 2 Auratones out of phase with each other and the mic and speakers set in an equilateral triangle. The out of phase sound from the speakers reach the mic at the same time and cancel each other out. Fun with phase anomalies!

    I agree with Chance for the most part. More than one mic on a source is asking for trouble. But I have been known to double mic kicks and snares as well as overheads. You just need to be aware of the problems that may arise from phase issues and deal with them at the time of set up. You don't want to be f#$@ing around with that stuff at mix.

    As far as tweaking and editing ... I do it .... I hate it. I think it sucks and again, I do it all the time.

    I would much rather have a great performance that doesn't need to be edited. Recording has become all about the producers instead of the players. The best records were made in an age when no one knew who the producer or the engineer was on a record for the most part. Now days it's almost like having a really well known producer and engineer is more important than who is actually singing and or playing. I think this is much of what's wrong with the recording industry these days.

    A lot of producers / engineers are on a power trip with all the technology. Editing, pitch and time correction, cut and paste, it's like that kid on MAD TV, (Stuart) in his underwear and socks jumping up and down like a spaz and saying "Look what I can do!" I hate it but I'm guilty of doing it myself. It's hard to not do it when everone else does as well. You gotta go with the flow.
     
  13. frob

    frob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2004
    you watch mad TV?

    i compleatly agree with you about the whole producer/engineer comment.


    this has nothing to do with phase but in WW2 the tank comanders would wair a special mic around there neck to cut out the noise, it would be pressed right up to there neck. almost compleatly isolated from the clang of the tank.


    i still cant believe you watch MAD TV.
     
  14. jamiey

    jamiey Guest

    Kurt, you probably hate editing so much because you are using Cubase 5.0! :)

    Man, I just LOVE editing, but I can only use Vegas for it, because every other program I feel just as you described. It's a great feeling when nothing at all needs to be done as well, no doubt about that, but even the greatest musicians might miss a note here and there.

    Oh, and I think Bono from U2 does his vocals like that, on a couch, with a sm58, drunk as hell... that's what I read anyways. Ya just gotta get in that comfort zone, right? Same goes for engineers. If you aren't comfortable editing and tweaking then it's best to just not do it, cause it's not worth your frustration. Just tell the band to play better :)
     
  15. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    Why is that? Some of that stuff cracks me up. I love The Dailey Show, (Lewis Black is a fave) Chris Rock, Dave Chappelle, some of SNLs stuff as well. Comedy is a big hit in the "Foster home".

    It's the overall concept, not the task I hate. Actually, I find editing in Cubase a breeze and very simple. Just like editing in Word. All the concepts are the same as most other Widows software. It has been a great program to poke and hope around in to fugure it out. Very user friendly, if you already have a grounding in audio. BTW, I'm using VST 5.1!
    :D


    I can believe that ... it's what he sounds like on the CDs ... in fact, I can picture it in my mind ... him sitting on a couch, sloppy drunk and drooling on himself, hollering "MOMMMMIEEEEEEEE .... OHHHHHHHH WAHHHHHHHH !" hee hee. :D
     
  16. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2001
    Mad TV is funny as Hell
    I can't believe the crap on the local networks that people watch.
    And the ONLY news program I watch is the Daily show.
    Lewis Black makes me laugh too hard.

    Hehe :lol:
    Hello, hello
    Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah, yeah

    shut the ^#$% up Bozo, I mean Bono
     
  17. frob

    frob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2004
    for the record im a huge comedy guy, but for just one more record 90% of mad TV is just painfull. :)

    also completly even more off topic; has any one noticed how mutch bono looks like casie jones from the old teenage meutant ninja turtles?
     
  18. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    There's some of MAD TV that is tooo stupid, I agree. But the Stuart sketches are pricless.
     
  19. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2001
    Hey wait a minute. :evil:

    :lol:
     
  20. frob

    frob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2004
    i dunno sketch comedy has gone down hill sense phill hartman died.

    *moment of silence*
     

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