Guitar.....Technical advice needed......

Discussion in 'Guitars' started by jfavela, Nov 21, 2005.

  1. jfavela

    jfavela Guest

    I own a small home-studio. I am looking to add some guitar tools to it.
    I've been product researching and have come to some conclusions or near one's at least.
    I want to add the Boss GT-8 as my effects processing station.
    Recording primarily and some live applications.

    For recording...
    I've been told line in is fat and really good, but that running this processor into a amp/cab and micing it would give me the best results. I know there is a million ways to skin a cat.

    Issues have arisen in my research, "damn it nothing is cut and dry in the studio."
    LOL. All you Hardcore GT-8 users insist getting a flat response keyboard monitor or self-powered PA speakers to avoid, "re-amping," already modeled pres, amps, cabs, mics, etc. For some reason, I don't like this idea. I want a guitar amp that will make this pedal, "fly." I have no real technical opinion on this issue because, well, I'm no engineer. I find it really hard to believe that it is so impossible to dial this puppy in with a nice, "guitar," rig. I want to add a nice low-wattage tube combo to the studio for use with/without the GT-8. Bang for the buck in my studio. For now at least...:)

    I'm reading the GT-8 owner's manual and it has multiple choices for various types of inputs you'll be plugging into. Also, I apologize for being such a newbie, I've seen combos and amp heads with an effects send/return section. Does running the pedal into the return bypass the amps pres?

    I have a few combos in mind for this:
    Fender Hot Rod Deluxe
    Vox AC30

    The reason for these choices, is being in a home-studio I wanted a low-wattage amp. The Roland JC120 was considered, but isn't this amp really LOUD?

    So am I crazy, or has anyone in here dialed this thing in with a guitar combo? I'm talking ball crunching distortion and to die for tones...

    Any thoughts, feedback is greatly appreciated.

  2. pr0gr4m

    pr0gr4m Well-Known Member

    Feb 9, 2005
    South Florida
    Home Page:
    I'm sure that the GT-8 is similar to all the other all-in-one guitar boxes in that it simulates different guitar amps and cabinets. It's for this reason that it's designed to be played back through your standard speakers/pa/full spectrum whatever. It's already got that guitar rig sound...or so they say.

    If you run it though a guitar rig, it could be considered overkill.

    I'm not saying that you can't or shouldn't do it. Just giving you the reason why people say that a guitar rig is not necessary with those things. You are supposed to be getting all your tone from the box, not a physical speaker.
  3. rudedogg

    rudedogg Guest

    i think you underestimate how loud those two amps are. the hot rod deluxe and the ac30 are LOUD. and i do mean LOOOOUUUUUUDDDD

    fwiw: i used to run a line 6 pod xt into a hot rod deluxe. it sounded way more realistic than just the pod by itself.

  4. CombatWombat

    CombatWombat Active Member

    Dec 17, 2004
    Portland, Or
    In the next few weeks the guy at my local shop is going to let me borrow his gt-8 so I can test it out on my AC-30. I will be back to report my findings!

    And yes, the AC-30 is VERY lLOUD. Do not underestimate.
  5. Buzzgrowl

    Buzzgrowl Guest

    When going direct without an amp, after all the effects boxes or multieffects, the final box I use is a Tech21 SansAmp Bass Driver DI. It conditions the signal and gives a balanced line out that sounds more like a "real" amped and miked guitar. I do not use the guitar versions of the same/similar boxes because they tempt tinckering and re-amp more (too much) than the bass model. As this is not a cheap piece of kit (200-300$), borrow one before you buy it. Use a good power supply or very fresh bateries.
    Alternatively, for a good cheap combo, try any of the Peavey classic series. I've had luck with the Classic 20 (no longer in production), you may want to gry the 30. You may want to change the speaker to a Celestion. You will also need a mike, preferably a shure 57. Also, lift the amp at least 1 foot or 30cm from the floor and make sure it sits on something that does not itself resonate. You can use an external 4x12 cab even on such a small amp with a huge difference in sound. In principle, the smaller the amp and speaker, the more the recorded track will stand out in the mix.
    Then read this:
    Even though much of the discussion refers to heavy or distorted sounds, it also applies to clean sounds to some extent.
    Have fun - Buzzgrowl
  6. Kapt.Krunch

    Kapt.Krunch Well-Known Member

    Nov 21, 2005
    Hi folks. New here. Been lurking for awhile. Just thought I'd jump in, if that's all right?

    Somebody mentioned the old Peavey Classics. (Solid State pre, tube power amp). A friend picked up one of those pretty cheap, and we brought it here to see what kind of abuse we could inflict on it. Sounded kind of OK using the onboard pre, but a tad ratty to me.
    The thing came alive when we plugged a DG Stomp into the power amp in, so we tried a POD 2.0, and it killed on that, also. To me, it was PLENTY loud enough, but my friend is one of those guys who ain't happy until the volume is loud enough to turn your brain into sludge. “What the heck, let's see what she'll take”. First we plugged the amp output into an EVM12L cab, then we plugged the DG Stomp into a Tube MP that I had lying around, hit the +20 dB button, and started turning it up. He loved it. I had to cover my ears, then leave the room. Anyway, it took it without smoking the amp....somehow.

    I've tried running these things through the front end of many amps, and with the exception of the DG Stomp on a relatively clean setting through an old Wurlitzer keyboard amp, the preamp sections of all my amps seemed to suck tone. Just didn't seem to compliment.
    I have an old Marshall 9005 tube power amp (50/50W), and a Mesa Boogie vertical 2-12 slant cab with EVM12Ls that I have modified to run either stereo or mono. I found that it works best when using these things. The amp adds just a tad of tube roundness, and the EVM12L’s reproduce pretty much what’s coming at them since they are relatively clean. (For extra fun and hair-pulling, I tried the DG through one channel and the POD through the other, using an FCB1010 MIDI foot controller. Confusing patch setups, but sounded pretty interesting If I was actually in a working band at the moment, and needed a lot of different sounds, I might try to tweak patches for use with this. As it is, I just fool around seeing what it will, since I don’t have anything to save for any reason).

    You could run direct and/or mic. You could run direct clean, and then re-mic through and/or either.

    Anyway, some people may like these things run through the front end of an amp. I prefer not. But then...I break all the other rules, so if it sounds good to you...go for it.

    Just a thought.

    Kapt. Krunch
  7. IIRs

    IIRs Well-Known Member

    Oct 23, 2005

    Mine is all chrome though, I think it looks better..

    <edit> it uses the same EL84 power valves as Vox AC30's..

    <edit2> don't worry about it only being rated 20 watts per side: this thing is LOUD!! I've played hundreds of gigs with mine ranging from pubs with just a vocal PA to large outdoor festival stages, and I've never needed the volume controls past half-way.. it pisses all over the EL34 Marshall I used to use!
  8. GregP

    GregP Guest

    Well, I posted this in the OTHER thread with the same title, so it echoes a bit of what pr0gr4m already said, but here we go:


    The reason that flat-response speakers are recommended is because the amp models in the unit already feature EQ (and/or peak-resonance curves), amp, and speaker emulation information that can be negated or futzed by running it through a real amp.

    For example, something like the AC30 is renowned for the way it colours the sound of an electric guitar, even 'clean'. It's such a unique sound that adding a modeled Rectifier (for example) will almost likely screw with the sound.

    Now, there's something to be said for saying 'to heck with ya' to the purists. Maybe a rectifier sound running through an AC30 would sound good, even though it wasn't intended to. I dunno, I've never tried it.

    BUT, since amps like that are costly in the first place, I'd buy one just so that I could use it for its intended purpose-- as an AC30.

    An alternative that might work for you is the Atomic Reactor. Here's a link to their 'being renovated' webpage, but you can probably find info at online music vendors, too:

    Now, one of the the 'selling points' is that you can buy fancy templates that basically incorporate your FX unit (ie. PODXT, V-Amp) right into the top of the amp itself, but there's no law saying you couldn't forego the template and just run a cable into its input, keeping the GT-8 on the floor.

    If I was dead-set on a GT-8 through a 'real amp', this is certainly the option I'd go for.
  9. Pre Amp

    Pre Amp Guest

    Not to my knowledge

    If you want ball crunching distortion...I have only gotten results like that from "all tube" guitar amps.
    I too own a Line 6 pod. And it is a FAR cry from sitting in the Kings thrown that a Marshall stack or a Hughes & Kettner tube amp is. All that drive, presence, natural compression, the overtones, and of course...the ball crunchiness, is easily reproduced with an all
    "tube" preamp and all "tube" power section.
    Lots of saturation, lots of power, lots of drive.
    And if volume is a problem with a 125W or 200W power amp head. Maybe you can control your overall volume with a Marshal power brake. Or a THD hot plate.
    Good luck
    Crunch on
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