Hi-hat bleed (not samplers) is killing the drummer profession in the studio

Discussion in 'Hi-Hats' started by zblip2, Nov 11, 2012.

  1. zblip2

    zblip2 Active Member

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    Montreal
    Well, have fun doing the moon walk :), I can't tell you the name yet, and as a matter of fact, I'm having second thoughts about the name but that's another issue.
    I'm crossing my fingers I'll be able to do some testing at the studio this week-end. My aim is to create two mp3 multi-track kits that will be composed of Snare top, Snare bottom, Snare shell, mono Over Head, mono Room Mic, Bass Drum mic, Hi-hat mic. I'll have the drummer (me) play the same drum beats "with and without" the gizmo. I'll put the multi-track kits online and ask anybody interested (I'd be happy if you did me the honor RemyRad) to try mixing these and get back to me with comments. Don't go crazy, just play around a couple of minute with them, and try to achieve a good drum sound. Would any of you be interested? I'd really appreciate your feedback, you are much more experienced than me at mixing drums. If you find that there is a problem with the sound, I'd like to know before putting my hard earned economies (dont have any, I'll be borrowing from the mafia) on the line...

    Thanks All!
     
  2. DrGonz

    DrGonz Active Member

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    I remember in the movie Pump Up the Volume the high school (Hubert Humphrey High) had the acronym HHH. So, did Christian Slater (the Pirate Radio host) and his alter-ego pirate radio name was Happy Harry Hard-on!!
     
  3. zblip2

    zblip2 Active Member

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  4. DrGonz

    DrGonz Active Member

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    diddlydoo:wink: Too funny LOL!!!:wink:diddlydoo
     
  5. Kapt.Krunch

    Kapt.Krunch Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    That's odd. I don't work in a professional recording studio. I work at home, and live sound stuff. When creating backing tracks for myself, I find myself spending more brain energy figuring out how to make sterile sampled drums sound real...hmmm.

    It's truly odd. Apparently, there were no good drum mixes before samples. I WONDERED why all those Beatles, Stones, Zeppelin, Who, Floyd, etc. songs sounded like crap!

    It's those bloody-bleeding hi-hats!duh

    Kapt.Krunch
     
  6. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

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    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    one mic

    actually there's a Neumann a couple feet in front of the kick. ringo.jpg


    the whole sample sound thing began back when Roger Nichols developed the Wendel computer to replace kick and snares on Steely Dans "Hey Nineteen".
     
  7. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Yeah, ya can't make good drum recordings with microphones all over the place LOL.

    Actually I heard his new device. It's interesting. It's intriguing. I think it will probably appeal to a lot of folks? While I can appreciate his efforts in creating this helpful drum recording tool, I have been accomplishing the same thing myself since the 1970s utilizing downward expansion and gates that also offer a sidechain input. So what it does is really not new. It may be a new way of accomplishing the same thing either electronically or acoustically? And it might be simpler for a lot of folks? Anything that adds convenience is always good. Especially when it accomplishes a desired function. Time is money after all. And anything that saves you time, your clients will appreciate especially if you're charging them by the hour LOL. Of course that convenience will cost you going in and coming out. So why make anything more convenient for an audio engineer if you're charging by the hour? I want your product to make me less money? And there's the rub. Now if your client asks for that device? That's a whole different ballgame. I can't tell you how many times people have asked me if I had ProTools. And now maybe I'll start getting phone calls asking me if I have Hi-Hat-Haters? Oh no... not again? Something else I'll have to buy now...?

    Couldn't I just hate the cowbell instead?
    Mx. Remy Ann David
     
  8. zblip2

    zblip2 Active Member

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    Montreal
    Thanks Remyrad for your valuable time and comments.

    I'll be doing another test next w-e. Will send you another file, it should sound better. It's a trial and error process.. Thanks again :)
     
  9. zblip2

    zblip2 Active Member

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    Tell your client you had to work hard to clean up the hi-hat (but you watched Braking Bad)
     
  10. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Member

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    Sep 26, 2005
    Yeah... that trial and error stuff... That's the art behind the science. And what makes this business so cool and... artistic. I mean if everything were perfect, where would the challenge be? Where would the art be if it took no effort?

    So looking forward to hearing more examples of your new gizmo.
    Mx. Remy Ann David
     
  11. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Well-Known Member

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    Flame suit on and engaged as the newbie of the forum gives his opinion... ;)

    I think that maybe the issue is that more people are trying to get live drums to sound as isolated as possible, with each drum as discreet as possible. It may be that it's the result of so many samples and drum libraries available, that the idea of the full, live kit has gotten lost, to some degree.

    As a studio drummer - and an engineer - I've tried to get the best drum sound I can over the years, and what I've found is that if you have a well tuned kit, with good cymbals, a decent room, good mics and a good drummer, it's not as hard as some make it to be.

    The one thing I don't do is to direct mic the hi hat - instead, I use a coincidental stereo array for overheads, and I let them pick up the hat in the mix. The result is very silky, not at all harsh, with enough presence to drive the mix.

    The other thing I don't do is gate the hell out of each and every drum. A drum kit has a particular sound as a whole - the way the snare may rattle a bit when the kick is hit, or the pleasant overtones that a well tuned kit can have, and I think many of these things are being pulled out of the mix - or at least some guys are trying to pull these things out of the mix in the quest for an isolated "sampled" sound.

    Live drums should be live. Let them breathe, use a little gain reduction to tame your transients, but not overly so, avoid huge and wide panning schemes, rely more on your overheads, and get the sound of the kit as you would hear the sound of the whole kit, if you were listening to them live.

    In my humble opinion of course...
     
  12. zblip2

    zblip2 Active Member

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    Thanks for sharing you views. You are probably doing the right thing, you probably get great results in studio, I won"t argur with you. But, take 30 secs and type "hi-hat bleed" in google. You will see about a gazillion threads and articles about hi-hat bleed problems. Why do you think this is the case?
     
  13. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

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    Location:
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    i think it's because there's a lot of people recording (a gazillion perhaps?) who don't know what they are doing. you'll probably sell a sh*t load of the HHH's. tha doesn't mean it's something that is really needed. there's a lot of stuff being marketed that's not necessary.
     
  14. zblip2

    zblip2 Active Member

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    I understand, I stand with the ones that write in these forums. This thing started out as a means to help me.. If I can enough to make a second income out of it, I'll be happy :)
     
  15. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

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    77 Sunset Lane.
    so why did you start this thread? was it to ask a question about how to deal with hat spill or was the intent to promote your invention? genuine question or SPAM?

    smells like SPAM to me and "I don't like SPAM!"
     
  16. ouzo77

    ouzo77 Active Member

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    you are a bitter old man.
     
  17. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

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    you are correct. it will happen to you too (getting old).
     
  18. ouzo77

    ouzo77 Active Member

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    getting old for sure. but getting bitter, I hope not
     
  19. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

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    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    too late dude. it seems like you are bitter about something ..... lol.

    first you call me "arrogant", then you call me "big headed", all unprovoked. it seems you enjoy calling people names and pointing fingers. reminds me of someone i have heard of .....

    if you don't like my opinions you don't have to read my posts. there's an ignore function you know.


    the op should have posted this in the New Products section in the first place or at the least, posted the intention of his posts at the top of the thread. that way some of us could have saved our efforts. i know i wouldn't have bothered.

    i don't care for someone leading me down the garden path only to learn later they are trying to sell me something.
     
  20. zblip2

    zblip2 Active Member

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    Nov 11, 2012
    Location:
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    Kurt, My initial goal was not to make publicity, for God's sake, I don't even have a product to market yet. I'm not eve sure if this project will even develope into something real. I'm just sizing up what the demand is. Please be a little indulgent with me. I'm there with my little thread trying to convince myself to go ahead with my project through the opinions of folks who might use it (or not). That's all man. I mean, even if you might not need the thing, aren't you not the least bit interested by the subject? Maybe I'm just naive in thinking that this isn'r totally a waist of time to everybody.
     
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