Hi-hat bleed (not samplers) is killing the drummer profession in the studio

Discussion in 'Hi-Hats' started by zblip2, Nov 11, 2012.

  1. ouzo77

    ouzo77 Active Member

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    Jan 16, 2006
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    Nuremberg, Germany
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    i'm not bitter. i just have a problem with people thinking they know everything and people who think that age means wisdom. that's all.
     
  2. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    what do you think of people who have 40 plus years in the business who have made recordings that have been released by labels like Demon , Cleopatra and JSP to name a few. someone who owns his home and is retired at 58 all from music related activities? How about someone who owned and operated a PROFESSIONAL studio for 10 years in a major market? do you think that just maybe that person might have some "wisdom creds"?

    have you ever received a check from a record company?
    now what do you say we stop dragging this thead off topic with the personal attacks... ?
     
  3. zblip2

    zblip2 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2012
    Location:
    Montreal
    I'm sorry I'll quit the thread then, guess it was a bad idea. Good luck all of you guys in you recording projects and your career. The business of recording is a cool one but it's a tough one, and I hope everybody find his place of happiness, and if not, that they will find an easy way out. My little gizmo is sort of my way out I hope it flies. I love you all for the dedication and immense work you probably put into your dream of making music and sound. Wish you all the best!
     
  4. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Well if I was you and I'm not, I'd keep pursuing this, what you're doing. I think it's quite valid.

    Doesn't matter, if I would choose not to use it myself.

    I heard this device work and it does largely do as it was designed to do. So why's everybody flaming about it? Why does anybody use those cool metal screen and pantyhose pop filters? So ya guys need to have a beer or smoke a joint or something?

    I'm well ahead of y'all. Because... IT'S SATURDAY NIGHT... LIVE! And I'm Don Pardo.
    Mx. Remy Ann David
     
  5. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    I do a good Don Pardoe impersonation.
     
  6. bishopdante

    bishopdante Guest

    It's in the post... sorry, the person who you arranged that with doesn't work here anymore, you have to ring the other accounting office... no we never recieved the invoice, can you send it again? ... we pay on 90 days... it's in the post...

    Up front and / or on delivery. With any company, big or small.

    Sure, ways to eliminate hihat bleed are a welcome addition to the arsenal. In many ways I think that an acoustic/mechanical gadget could be just as valid in a live sound application. I wouldn't recommend you sell your house/car/soul to put it into tool & die production and fill up a warehouse with 100,000 of 'em, but if you can make them in small batches, great. If you can sell the concept to a mic, or for that matter drum company who already have distributors, better still. I don't have any idea what this device is you're talking about, mind you, so it's all quite hypothetical.

    However, to make the thread non-boring and relevant, why not post some soundcloud links out in the open to the resulting effect on a snare drum mic ... extra marks for half-open hihats and a drummer belting the kit with 2B sticks and adding ghost notes.
     
  7. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Well-Known Member

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    Akron/Cleveland, OH
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    I applaud anyone who strives to make the recording process better. There was a time when engineers wore white lab coats and the management at certain studios forbade the engineers from recording past 0 db...

    Think of all the recordings to tape that hit that magic +3db sweet spot and the warmth and silk that resulted, because one guy, instead of saying "okay"...said "but what if "?...

    New ideas come up with new processes and tools....and tools are good to have if for no other reason than they provide us a choice of what to use for particular scenarios. We might not always use them, or use them at all, but they're nice to have around if you want them.

    Keep working on your idea. ;)

    IMHO, of course.
     
  8. ouzo77

    ouzo77 Active Member

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    Nuremberg, Germany
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    New tools are always welcome. Why shouldn't we accept new technologies that make life easier?
    So keep up the work. If it works as you claim it does it will find it's place in the recording industry.
    Btw, sorry for interrupting your thread zblip2.

    Just one more thing to make my point clear.

    That is good for you.
    I do respect experience and I do respect age. But age alone doesn't necessarily deserve respect. It has to be earned. And someone who is disrespectful against others won't get any from me.
    I'm sure you know what you are doing (your posted recordings sound good for the type of music and the time they were made). But age and experience don't give you the right to bash other people or their work.

    Actually I did!
    https://itunes.apple.com/gr/album/agapi-anekpliroti/id291609189
    MORAL -
    Not only did I write the complete music for this album, I've also played all the instruments (except for the lead guitars), recorded and mixed it.
    After having the songs mixed by two "experienced" engineers my mixes were used in the end. Though I could do better now...

    Anyway, I'm not an engineer and I've never claimed to be. I am just a musician who wants to record his own music. And forums like this have helped me so much in getting better at what I do.
    I don't do this for a living. I do this for fun in my spare time between my full time job as an art director, my cover band and the time I spend with my fiancée and family. Which leaves only a few hours a week for this.

    Now that is a good idea! Finally we agree. ;-)
     
  9. zblip2

    zblip2 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2012
    Location:
    Montreal
    RemyRad, you're great :)

    As for Kurt, man, I respect you a lot and I'm sure you got some good reasons to be a bit bitter about stuff. It is my opinion that we are all in the same boat, all trying to make a living in this crazy world of sound and music and production etc. I go to bed at night wondering if I'll have enough energy to attack big progects anymore, wishing I was doing an easier job, trying not to think too much about the fact that I didn't put enough money aside for my soon to be old days etc.. That's the price some pay for doing a job that's looks so fun to do. Just remember that we are in some ways brothers ans sisters. That goes also for the younger ones reading this.
    In the city where I live there was a recording studio that was competing against the one I work for. One day it closed down. Normally we should have all been happy like the studio owner was, but in reality, it was a sad moment. The reason being that the crew who worked there, though we didn't know them, probably were nice people, passionate about there jobs, probably just as competent as our team, guys that if they wern't working for the competition would have been our friends. They didn't have a job anymore.

    Society pushes us to compete against each other. We are sort of like gladiators, in every branch of work, not just sound. It may be comforting to look at others and imagine that they don't know what they are talking about, because in our childish sense of suvival we hope that they don't know what they're talking about. It makes us feel better. I see it all the time on forums like this one. It is an illusion. The fact is, a lot of people really know what they are talking about and a good part of them don't hang out in forums like this one cause they dont have the time for it.

    Let me finish with a quote I heard, I don't know if it is from Gandi or Boudah or who ever. It basically sais:

    If, when you meet someone, a part of you is wondering if this persone is superior or inferior to you, you are missing the point about life.

    Up to not so long ago, I was missing the point.
     
  10. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    zblip2

    i do not want you to stop posting on this topic. .... it would have been better if you had said up front you were attempting to publicize your new idea.

    i also do not mean to say that there will be no takers for your idea ... i'm sure you can get a lot of interest. after all there's a lot of money being made selling mo pads, reflexion screens, monster wire behringer processors etc .... there's tons of crap out there selling.


    so in short, "no?"

    Perhaps you need to deal with more reputable companies? Demon Records sent me a $20,000 cheque for the Brownie McGhee record i produced. i had been sitting on the masters for a few years re mixing and marketing them my efforts were finally rewarded. i am happy to say i paid his estate more money (over half) than Brownie ever made for any record he had done while he was alive. Another large chunk went to the band that played on the record with Brownie. all in all a very satisfying project. the cd is still available on Amazon.com

    Cleopatra Records also handed over a big check for recording Nik Turner at "The Great American Music Hall" in SF ... The CD and DVD are (Nik Turner Space Ritual) are still available on Amazon.com. that one was paid the night of the gig. btw i didn't mix that one, i only tracked it.

    everyone else;
    and i really do hate it when it gets so personal and then i am forced to chortle on about my track record ... it really is unseemly imo. so let's just get off the personal attacks (i didn't start it and i only defend myself and do not attack others). if we keep the threads on topic and we will all be a lot happier. i am entitled to my opinions and i also have the right to express my self .... isn't that what art is all about? if you don't like my opinions the is an ignore function.
     
  11. bishopdante

    bishopdante Guest

    I won't name names, but it's one of the big 4. It's a running joke in a few circles. Maybe it's just their UK operation.
     
  12. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    Mar 20, 2000
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    BC, Canada
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    A Kurt classic! :LOL:

    Here is more tags on. http://recording.org/tags/bleed/
     
  13. Brother Junk

    Brother Junk Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2016
    Location:
    Lowell Massachusetts
    This ^^ is how the only studio drummer I know does it. He even phrases it the same, that he "mixes himself." It is a little funny to watch as the kit is set up strangely. But that's how he does it, and he is bloody fast once the recording is down. He doesn't need to do a lot with the tracks after.

    About the spill, or which sounds better....I dunno. If the spill was that big a problem wouldn't studio guys be using the $10k electronic sets? It's samples, played in real time? Maybe they are, I don't know.

    I have a set of Roland TD-11's which are enough for me, as I only dabble in drums. But it's a fairly different sound than live. A real drum set, the whole kit has sort of a resonance and decay to it when someone is rocking them. Sounds are bouncing off each other left and right (pun intended). Just the "air" of live drums is different.

    From seeing someone do what KF described above, the drummer is essentially moving things around so that he gets as little bleed as possible. It looks a bit silly to play, but I don't think this guy knows how to hit out of time. So it's mostly the immediate sound that's recorded, but there is still an air to it that's just different.
    lol, ain't that the truth. Look at Animal from The Muppets. Not a well adjusted muppet...to say the least. He doesn't even have a real name! Chains himself by the neck to the kit...

    Someday I'll be as good as Animal.

    muppet_animal.jpg
     
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