hi-hat mic?

which out of these 2 would make a better HI-HAT mic......

MXL603s or KSM27

can a large condenser like the ksm27 be used for a hi-hat mic ? im hoping so , so that way i can use the ksm27 on the hats and just pick up another 603s to use as overheads rather than picking up another ksm27 for an overhead which is much more money, and use the 603 on the hats

 

Are you sure that you REALLY need a hi-hat mic? I use a couple of KSM27s on piano and on overheads, but have never needed a "hat mic" with 'em. Different strokes...
I don't think that either mic you listed would be a good choice for hi-hat. Theoretically, the XL being a SDC "should" be a better choice, but they aren't real smooth on metallic sources. The KSMs sound great as overheads, and personally, I like the balance that I've gotten with a pair of them in that position. Didn't need a seperate HH mic. Just a good ol' 57 on snare, a Beta52 on kick, and a pair of 27s overhead.
That having been said, I have found that the AT4041 makes a pretty good HH mic. Mucho smootho. Good on acoustic guitars, too. You might be able to find a used one somewhere like e-bay ( I did).

 

Unless you are going to mic every little thing on a drumkit in a close-mic'd fashion, the need for a hat mic is negligible. A KSM LDC is going to pick up everything in a much wider range than the SDC mics would. As I told you last week, I have not used the KSM's for overheads but if Moon says they're good then they probably are. You're best bet is the 57 on the snare, a Beta52/any other kick mic available, a pair of 603's overhead and the KSM27 as a room mic. At least this would be an answer for you in your situation.

 

The reason that I like the KSM (pronounced,"kiss-ems") as the overheads is mainly because, with a little experimental placement, they negate the need for tom mics, and their extended top end still picks the HHs up pretty smoothly. But that KSM room mic idea...I sense a Big Bonham sound is in the works. I usually do jazz gigs these days, but I will have to try that...

 

I'd suggest an SM-81 over either of those any day of the week, and it's not that much difference in price between a KSM-27 and the SM-81.

The KSM will pick up everything in the room very, very clearly. Putting on the hi-hat will just make it a room mic with very loud hats, especially you throw compression on it.

Generally, you don't need a separate hi-hat mic, unless you really want the hats loud while keeping the overheads really quiet in the mix, or you're really getting detailed in the drum mixes. And if you're getting that detailed and going that high end, you're shooting yourself in the foot by using anything less than the best mic for the job.

 

Moon...since you've got two of em, I'm sensing an X/Y pair on the room! Now thats LARGE. Something I like to do on a smaller kit, is to gobo the set up nice and tight. I'll use an SDC pair in a stereo X/Y over the top, close mic the toms(usually Audix D series),snare gets one of my Unidyne III's(aint nuttin better),Kik can be ATM25/Beta 52/Audix D4 in on the kicker,a Studio Projects B3 out in front of the kick, and then I'll space two LDC's in cardioid out in front of the kit.Just far enough for some air but close enough to be the sound of the overall kit. Sometimes I'll use em in the mix othertimes not. With a very percussive track, I might not use the overheads at all and only use the room mics and the inner kick...At least with this you can choose. If you have a great room or a nice echo-ish adjacent hallway, a good LDC to capture ambience and add yet another flavour is a great way to go.

 

thanks guys for the knowledge and input..i appreciate it

 

with the proper placement an sm57 will work. Actually many mics will work..it's how you use them that makes the difference. Use a high pass filter.

 

amen!

your overheads *should* be providing all the sparkle you need for your hats... unless you've got drummer who really wails on the cymbals and hits the hats softly (rare... and even then, compression on the overheads will even that out for you).

An SM57 or similar dynamic will give you the option to EQ-in some body & character to the hats w/o messing with your overheads sound.

 

Dave:
I like your idea for the kit. A church that I work at is re-doing the stage in the main auditorium, and I have been pushing for 'live drums' (now we have a Roland electronic kit), as have the music director and drummer. The production designer is the sticking point...Anyway, we have a nice soundstage and high ceilings.I wanna put a pair of SM81s over the drummer's set of Yamahas, and try more Audix around it. We'll see....Thanks.

 

I think a LDC with a high pass can work fine for hi-hat (even if a SD would be faster and maybe more accurate, but it all depends what you want). I did a session with a 414 hi passed at 320 (160 on mic and 320 on the mix) and it was nice...... having a hi-hat mic helps to localise it, but that said you can do without it, it just won't be as accurate in the image.
but of course the way you put your overheads change the image xy more accurate than ab at leaset more separated

 

i havent been using a hi hat mic lately..nut i do have an sm-81 for the job if necessary.

 

Heres a secret mic for hihats....dont tell ANYONE at all.....


ATM63. Go ahead, try to find one...!!!!

a pro37 works well too. Beyer 424.........


Shure PE545...........


HA!!

 

i use a 57 and only reall to get the clap sound of the hats not the hits.