How Joshua Recording Studios Prefers to Track Drums!

Discussion in 'Drums' started by joshuarecordingstudios, Mar 5, 2008.

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    The New AT5047 Premier Studio Microphone Purity Transformed

  1. Well , I did check out your website and it seems you mostly master classical music, which I love , but is very different from what I record. I found this on your page, Sublyme Records Mastering Suite is a custom built, underground facility located in historic Fredericksburg, Virginia specializing in high-quality mastering using only the finest outboard and COMPUTER BASED MASTERING GEAR FROM companies such as Manley Labs, Crane Song, Benchmark, Millennia Media and others.

    Computer based , me too!

    I still dont understand why you guys are so raged at my post!

    I am not a pro, I am a student, how many times do you want me to say that? I think some of my work turns out sound really great, but I am not a pro by any means. What qualify's one to call them self a pro any ways, I mean when do you start saying ok, I know everything and everyone must listen to me, thats foolish and also seems to be the way you are coming across.

    Do me a favor, get to know me before you give me a bad name! You have no clue what your talking about when you address my personality, ethics,morals, and standards.

    Number 1 first and for most, I am a devout christian, and if you know anything about the christian doctrine, you'd know that christians usually stray from being self centered. I am not saying christians are perfect, but they do have those intentions along with a lot of other really good personality trates. I am just trying to be better everyday at what I do, so I will just say this one more time.

    I never meant to upset anyone or offend anyone with my post nor did I claim to be a pro! If I am so unexperianced as you say then its very clear I am a student, right!

    Anyways, blessings and I hope we can get past this stupid thing because I am tired of defending my self on stupid assumptions.

    Contact me personally if you want to discuss this for real!

  2. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    Mar 8, 2004
    Tacoma, WA
    No...I primarily record classical music. However, I do rock, jazz, country, bluegrass and others as well. I master all types of music. The difference is, I know full well that the folks on the mastering boards here and on PSW know a lot more about it and are better equipped to do mastering than I am. In other words, I know my place.

    Uhh...check that gear list there dude. Crane Song, Manley, Millennia, Benchmark??

    Any single one of those pieces of gear costs more than your entire setup. None of them are computer based. Yes, I also use some computer-based replications of hardware - mainly those found on the UAD and TC dedicated computer cards.

    However, the room, the acoustics and the monitors are THE most important ingredient in mastering, not the gear you use. If those things aren't top notch, the only thing you can do to music is hack it up.

    We get that. In fact, we've understood that since the moment you posted. That's not the issue. It's the hubris in which you posted to begin with. Even now that the subject is changed and some of the words in your first post, it comes off as authoritative.

    The fact that you came here to "help" and you felt the self-importance enough to do so on your VERY first post is arrogant. Should we be thankful that for all of these nearly 10 years, no one on or PSW has been curteous enough to explain drum recording techniques to us?

    The point is - you're welcome to hang around here, read and post and even share ideas and "help." However, when your very first post comes off as authoritative, it's standoffish. Even if you were Steve Albini, most people would have just said "TOOL!"

    Simple - the ability and requirement to use this as the means for living. In other words - the work pays the bills. This doesn't count if you live with mom and dad. For example, my studio grossed a decent chunk of money this year. Enough that, even though I have no "day job" at the moment, I could pay a mortgage payment (of over $3000 a month) and cover health insurance for my family.

    Many people here are doing far better than I am too. Folks like Bent and Remy actually have recording as their primary and only jobs. These guys are pros.

    I don't know everything. Far from it. I don't think anyone here has represented themselves this way. I've studied physics for 12 years both at brick-and-mortar institutions and through private studies. I've studied music for 26 years again through brick-and-mortar and private studies.

    However, at no point in my career did I ever say "Ok, I know everything and everyone must listen to me..."

    In fact, one of the first things I tell my interns and part-timers is:
    "I learn something new on EVERY recording gig I do. Keep your ears and eyes open."

    Have I done this? Has anyone here done this? I think we've address the fact that you are trolling and/or spamming, and even said you have no clue what you're talking about, but has anyone called into question the nature of your character?

    See, it's this that pisses me off.

    First, I don't know where religion comes into play in this conversation. Second, why do people feel the need to hide behind Jesus Christ instead of using him as an example to live.

    When's the last time you read anything in the Bible about Jesus walking into a room full of people and immediately advising them on what to do and how to do it?

    Last time I checked, it's the meek who shall inherit the Earth, not the authoritative.

    Put another way, the best way to help is NOT addressing people whom you've never met and with whom you have no experience and ASSUMING that they need your help.

    Most often, it's best simply to listen, listen and listen. And when you're done listening, listen some more. Then, if you see a need and desire for your special brand of help, then you may help.

    I absolutely hate it when these discussions bring religion into the issue and now I'm pissed off.

    Then stop defending yourself and simply apologize and walk away. I don't mean leave the forums. I mean walk away from the topic.

    If you'd like, I can lock this topic so that you don't have to keep defending yourself. Just say the word and it will be done.

  3. MadMax

    MadMax Well-Known Member

    Mar 18, 2001
    Sunny & warm NC
    Home Page:
    Pot calling the kettle young man.... Let's address your statement that you are a student and that you are not a pro....

    I see no where in the above paragraphs your claim of being a student and not a professional. Just the opposite... and THAT is what is getting your turn in the hot seat... and the additional roasting is because you refuse to seeming acknowledge that you've stepped right in the middle of a big pile of poo... and that you are still in the pile with it all over your shoes.

    Do us ALL a favor and realize that it is your own ego which gives you a bad name.

    YOU and you alone came into this community with ego blaring loud and clear that you and your experiences gave you authority to give advice from on-high atop your mighty pinnacle of experience.

    Because of how you have conducted yourself from the outset, to this very moment, indicates to me that you are purely here for the purpose of being a Troll.

    Nothing would give me greater pleasure than for you to prove me wrong and see you become an active contributing member of this community. However, I will reserve the right to refuse to hold by breath in that anticipation.
  4. Codemonkey

    Codemonkey Well-Known Member

    Dec 11, 2007
    Scotland, UK
    "when do you start saying ok, I know everything and everyone must listen to me, thats foolish and also seems to be the way you are coming across."

    Cucco has quite evenly said he learns all the time. I've seen it happen. Look up threads on mics and you find everyone learns because every pro has a different area of expertise.

    "Computer based , me too!"

    There's a difference between say, a Pro Tools HD uber system with ADCs so good even NASA doesn't have them; and a PC connected to a Firebox or something equivalent.

    OK, so you're not a pro. Neither am I. So you're a Christian? So am I. What does it matter (until the end of the world, anyway :))?

    "get to know me before you give me a bad name!"
    I suppose we would try, if you would come on and introduce yourself and become part of the community instead of punting out some formula which most here hate (but still have to use sometimes) [NB: in general, we are attacking the method you use because producers use it to ruin music, not attacking you].

    The point here is that replacing drums with samples and MIDI files etc. happens because producers demand everything to be "perfect".
    Is perfection really drum samples that sound the same on every ****ing song released these days? Is perfection really vocals that sound exactly on pitch every note, making these folk seem perfect (for 3 fake minutes), while the rest of us struggle to hit that high G?

    Oh and as a Christian, don't you find it ever so slightly guilt inducing to be destroying someone's work because you feel they're substandard by a slight amount? Is the point to make the drummer a better drummer to make the whole band better overall or to make the song better than the band is?
    I don't do sound for a job, it's a hobby, and for me it's simple. Just record what's there. The band is the real magic.

    I could link to our church band's songs on soundclick. The vocals are (in all honesty) out of time for half the song, the drums didn't get picked up too well unfortunately, because I don't mic them live. The mistakes in the guitar tracks actually added to a song one time. Would I retrack them and fix it? Maybe for one song, because a connection came loose and the guitar track turned to static.

    One day we're going to wake up and the whole industry will just use elaborate midi players.
  5. sshack

    sshack Active Member

    Dec 25, 2007
    Atlanta, Ga
    The large majority of the time, the magic is in the tracking...not the fixing thereof. This is what I've learned/experienced in my small world.
  6. Link555

    Link555 Well-Known Member

    Mar 31, 2007
    North Vancouver
    Wow this is impressive. First let me say, this has gotten silly and become nothing more than a slam fest.

    In my opinion this all a big misunderstanding. Attitude counts for a lot on this forum.

    No one likes to be told how to do something they already know. I think that’s all that’s happening here.

    Quite a few people on the forum have loved and lived with audio for a long time. They all have there personal tricks and methods.

    It might be best to swap ideas, rather than instruct.

    Difference of opinion is normal around here. Aggressive re-education is not.

    Best of Luck!
  7. This topic has raised a few eyebrows!

    I don't recal joshua mentioning he was a student either.

    I am a student and I only posted a reply as I thought it was a bad example for anyone learning about the recording industry, such as myself.

    I think it's clear that it was the wrong way of entering a forum and time to move on.
  8. Ok this is my last reply I promise! I bet you guys are over the hill and have nothing better to do than try and flex an ego, right? I mean what other reason would you have to cause so much drama on this discussion?

    It’s like this, when someone has something to offer and they offer it, its there for you to take or leave it.

    So DO it, take it or leave it, but don’t complain about the offer.

    I was saying get to know me because you guys were taking my post out of context as to what I was really trying to say, but you already know that and apparently don’t care.

    Anyways, just get over it! I am not going to apologize for something I didn't do; I am not authoritive and never will be.

    I bring religion in to it so you can understand my morals and faith! It’s who I am and if you cared to know that at all you wouldn't mind me saying so!

    anyways, I am done with wasting my precious time arguing when I could be mixing a song or something , I don’t know , anything would be better than dealing with judgmental , ignorant , old people.

  9. bbkong

    bbkong Guest

    Is this a good place to ask Josh if he knows which plugin I can use to make my Teisco sound like a Strat?

    Preferably Clapton's.
  10. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    Oct 31, 2005
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Joshua! Step back! Why don't you just appologize for making a foolish assumption. You're calling names now? Over the hill? Chalk that up for experience as opposed to naivete.

    I know sometime people get pegged wrong. So start new, with a fresh perspective. Reread your post. You came on with attitude and ego. Maybe you're talented. Maybe you could help out some newbs. Great. There are lots of newbs here. There are also lots of real honest to goodness pros. Don't be presumptuous. "He who wishes to be first must be last".
  11. natural

    natural Active Member

    Jul 21, 2006
    This article speaks to this subject perfectly:

    This is in this months EQ mag, about Mike Portnoy (drummer for Dream Theater, Neal Morse and others) and Engineer Paul Northfiled (I think he comes under the heading of a 'Pro')

    Portnoy is one my fav drummers and his recent work with Neal Morse is now one my new benchmarks for comparing drum sounds.

    Here's a short excerpt concerning thier first CD

    EQ:Was the entire kit triggered on Images and Words?
    PORTNOY: I believe the entirety of what you hear is triggered. David Prater [producer] was a very difficult person to work with. He was the kind of producer who would lock you out of the studio during the mix, and just do whatever the hell he wanted. I made it pretty clear from the beginning that I hated those drum sounds during tracking, but he had just done a popular record with a hair metal band called Firehouse, and he thought it would be a good idea to use all those drum sounds on our album, as well. That kind of sound may work with pop metal, but it was completely out of place with an over-the-top, progressive metal band. But that was our first album for a major label, and we had no leverage.

    Ok- So 'nuff said,
    I'm guessing that we're all ready for installment 2 of 6?
  12. fourone3

    fourone3 Active Member

    Jan 17, 2007
    I have nothing to add about this that hasn't been addressed, but I have to agree with everything that's been said.

    Josh man, you've got to man up and admit that you came off as all-knowing and just start over. The first words out of my professor's mouth when I went to school were "You have to be humble in this game".

    And never bring religion in to clear anything up. I'm not a religious guy, but I'm certainly a stand up, honest, hard working dude. You don't need religion to have morals or ethics.
  13. Link555

    Link555 Well-Known Member

    Mar 31, 2007
    North Vancouver
    I am pretty easy going, and try to be as fair minded as I can. I am not one to pick fights. But I have to Second fouron3 comments on religion. It has no place in this discussion, and certainly tells me nothing positive about your character.

    Good Luck!
  14. BobRogers

    BobRogers Well-Known Member

    Apr 4, 2006
    Blacksburg, VA
    Boy! Turn off the internet for a day and try and get some work done and you really miss a lot. You guys are tougher than the Three Billy Goats Gruff. Now I'll never learn the secrets of the pros. :roll: Except that a few of them are overly familiar with the work habits of cross dressing prosties in DuPont Circle. NTTAWT
  15. Codemonkey

    Codemonkey Well-Known Member

    Dec 11, 2007
    Scotland, UK
    "Turn off the internet for a day"
  16. bent

    bent No Bad Vibes! Well-Known Member

    Oct 26, 2007
    Cocoa, FL
    Home Page:
    Answer: Turn off the internet for a day.

    Question: What does my cable company do when I'm late paying the bill?

    >Wow, how lame was that???<

  17. Thats awesome , even Mike Portnoy uses drum replacement, notice he never said he didn't like triggering, he just didn't like the samples the dude was using! Thanks Natural, you've helped me out here 10 fold. And even knowing that, I am still not saying that this is the only solution for tracking perfect drums, but if its good enough for Mike portnoy and Firehouse, its certainly good enough for most drummers! Once again , this is my opinion and I dont want anyone to get offended or anything.

    Enough Said!!!!!!!!
  18. Lets start a new topic titled, Guitar Replacement! What do you guys know about that cause this is one area I'm lost! I am open to any suggestions!

  19. Hey Natural, I would post part 2 of 6 but I dont think the others really want to hear it. If you'd like to hear it personally from me you can email me and I will send it to you and we can discuss it! Also , you guys might want to know to look for me in Recording Magazine in a few months, I just got off the phone with Mike the chief editor and we are talking about posting my article in one of the up coming editions.

    Hopefully the readers there will be a little nicer!
  20. sshack

    sshack Active Member

    Dec 25, 2007
    Atlanta, Ga
    Respectfully Josh, I think the article snippet was pretty clear that it wasn't good enough for Portnoy...he said that they had no leverage because it was their first album. To me that says if he had his drothers, he wouldn't have opted for that method.
    IMO he's certainly a solid enough drummer to not need it, but whatever. I've heard of the method being used before and have some engineering friends that use it from time to each their own.

    And there is no guitar replacement, so don't even bark up that tree.

  • AT5047

    The New AT5047 Premier Studio Microphone Purity Transformed

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