Discussion in 'Computing' started by Opus2000, Oct 3, 2002.
SOS posted about AMD's wonderful breakthrough to the 333FSB world
Actually, the point of that thread was mainly to let it be known that we can expect to see the price of the "older" AMD CPUs to drop a little.
These brags from Intel are all well and good, and numbers and predictions are fun to read, but I feel that people should take a look at real life a little more.
I was cruising the net the other night and happened accross a shootout between the P4 2.4G and the AthlonXP 2400+ on one of the popular puter geek sites (I forget which one right now, but it would be easy to find). It showed them being neck and neck, with the 2400+ having the edge in most situations. And remember ... the 2400+ is NOT 2.4G! So, with all of the impressive HYPE that Intel throws at the public, hertz for hertz they just don't perform as well in the REAL world. And as far as COST ... you really don't wanna go there.
I'm accumulating info and knowledge to build a new peecee in the near future (after the first of the year). I had a bitch of a time building an Athlon machine earlier this year, but it's been 100% stable. No problems with it whatsoever.
At this point. I'm up-in-the-air as to whether I'll go P4 or Athlon. I'd find it very difficult to change boats midstream, since the AMDs I've had experience-with have been awesome once they're up and running. I'm very interested in seeing how the new SIS 746 chipset performs. However, Opus and lots of others here on RO are very happy with their P4s, and that holds a lot of weight also.
WWOD? We all know the answer to that ... lol. But WWSD (What Will Smaugie Do)? Will he fall into another multi-month battle with stubborn circuitry? Will he heed the advice of the guru, or will he strike-off on his own armed with much gained knowledge and new ideas? Will his fanless power supply / totally fanless DAW puter ideas work as he hopes? (Oooops ... that slipped) ...
Here's the main difference here SOS...those tests are not REAL world to US...they are GUI tests only....half of those tests you see are with graphics programs which leave the CPU completely idle...seriously. This is no joke. The latest CPU magazine goes over this and it's absolutely correct.
GUI programs leave the CPU idel and don't truly use it to it's full potential...this is a software issue and not a CPU issue....yes the "numbers" aren't what Intel say they are. AMD is pumping theirs up but I can gaurantee you that AMD will be saying bye bye with a lovely chapter 11 by Q1 or Q2 of 2003. This has nothing to do with the battle between them or Intel(even with the new Intel stuff coming out) but more to do with their lack of sales. Plain and simple.
Sometimes you miss some important aspects of computers and the applications in which are being used. GUI programs react a hell of a lot different than DSP/Native based applications.....
I understand what you're saying about some testing methods, as I read a LOT of reviews, shootouts, roundups, et cetera. Sometimes they purposely test stuff in certain ways to get the desired outcome. Tomorrow, I'll find it and post the link, and you can tell me if the testing methods seem kosher to you.
Even if you put the two side by side, and by chance you DO get better performance out of a P4 than an Athlon of equal hertz rating (Which I honestly doubt), is it worth paying a little more for the P4 CPU & mobo? On Mwave, an XP2000 (1.67G) is $113.40, a P4 1.5G is $112.36, and a P4 1.6G is $121.90. Can you honestly tell me that either of those P4s will keep up with the XP? A P4 2G is $169.57. And then you add the mobo ... P4B533E $149.10. The highest priced single processor ASUS mobos for the XP are under $130. It's probably safe to assume that the new SIS746 and nForce2 boards that will be out soon will be around the same price or lower. So, for a 2G CPU and a motherboard, the difference is a little over $70. Is the P4 worth that difference?
Don't misunderstand me ... I'm not being argumentative about it. I'm only trying to point out the cost difference and see if you honestly feel that the P4 is worth the much-higher price.
Cost difference shouldn't be your deciding factor to a high performance oriented machine. Plain and simple.
Sis and NVidia are going to be gaming machines...not audio systems. Those chipsets still have a ways to go to make it into the DAW world...Intel and AMD based chipsets are the two main ones that you should stick with.
I understand where you are coming from SOS but remember that you are going the SoundScape route which has no bearing on the machine since it's not native based.
So at that point cost is somewhat of an issue as the main recorder you are getting is close to $10,000 itself!
P4's according to CPU magazine are indeed the top performers. I reccomend you go out and get the last two issues of those magazines and do some reading. Some serious light will be shed on this subject to you at that point!
My next DAW is now up in the air. Getting 32 tracks from Soundscape will cost a fortune. With the way puter technology is going, I'm now giving serious thought to Nuendo. If I was sure about Soundscape, I'd just build me a gaming puter ... hehehehehehehe.
Since you said that AMD chipsets are the safe bet for Athlons, and the single processor AMD-based boards are dinosaurs, I assume the only way to go is a MP mobo. How does PRS like his? No probs? I could easily be encouraged to go that route rather than go Intel.
The iWill/AliMagik Athlon is doing fine. It's been a real surprise to me. With all of the compatibility and assembly probs, I figured it would continue to be a fistfull of problems. It runs for about 12 hours every day and just keeps on going, and going, and going ... lol.
Another Athlon question ... for non-DAW machines, what do you think of the VIA-based mobos? I've built 2 in the last couple of months and they went as smooth as silk. They've done great for general internet use and gaming. Do you recommend that I keep using them for puters that I build for "plain folk"? Nothing fancy, no overclocking, just decent, reliable, basic machines at a very reasonable cost.
I just did a little Athlon MP mobo homework. There's only a handful of them, and the ASUS board is definately the board of choice (IMO). The A7M266-D/L (with-LAN version) is $211 at Googlegear ... a reputable retailer.
So please explain to me how the dual processor system will benefit me. Is it a better choice for Nuendo? Will it work with Soundscape? Will it fetch my coffee and wipe my ... oh nevermind.
Hehehe ... check this out ... people are sueing Intel for making claims that their processors are so big and bad!
Gary, I SERIOUSLY think you should reconsider this whole P4 thing. Do some tests of your own if you don't believe the test results that are ALL OVER the internet PROVING that P4s suck compared to Athlons.
They say that "numbers don't lie" ... lol ... unless they come from Intel!
SOS..are you having fun talking to yourself here?! lol
I've been in AES hell myself...what have I learned from the show?! NOTHING! lol I was stuck at the Apogee booth the whole time on Saturday and Sunday...Monday I'm at work of course as well as Tuesday!
Anyhue, back to the subject at hand...
Via is fine for NON DAW stuff...plain and simple..
If you want absolute compatability with all hardware, stick with Intel...that's what my true argument is all about in the long run.
Sure, if you want to do the Dual AMD route go with the Asus board...since that has both the north and south bridge of AMD...any other single Athlon board has a via south bridge!!! Ewwwwww!!!
You understand where I am coming from now?
Your arguments are great and all but useless at this point as you see you are the only one fighting for AMD!!!!! No one else is. So I ask you this as a favor. Give it up! SERIOUSLY! I know you want to express your opinions and all but they are getting to the point where you are starting to scare me dude!
Relax on the AMD battle. It's going no where. Everyone is dead happy about their P4 systems...
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