Izotope Ozone, Waves Abbey Road ADT

Discussion in 'Mixing & Song Critique' started by DonnyThompson, Apr 1, 2014.

  • AT5047

    The New AT5047 Premier Studio Microphone Purity Transformed

  1. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2012
    Location:
    Akron/Cleveland, OH
    Home Page:
    Thanks for the links, Chris (Perra).

    It's that kind of response that keeps the debate intelligent and productive. I applaud you for that.

    That being said...

    Obviously, you and I differ in what each of us expects when we think of a Neve 1073.*

    I have to say - in my opinion only, of course - that this plug really doesn't resemble the sound of a Neve 1073 to me at all.

    Having used the real thing over the years via 500 Series Lunch Boxes and racked modules, there is a "certain" thumbprint to a 73. Smooth - but at the same time with a slightly edgy resonance, and a characteristic lower mid "body" to them without the mud ... a certain "silky" sound, with a smooth mid-range...yet, with a slight but pleasing harmonic edgy at the same time... if you've never heard or worked with a real 1073, it's really tough to describe it in words... other than that it's a wonderful sound... (assuming you are using an appropriate mic) and I'm just not hearing "that" character on these samples.

    (*although as a side note, I will admit that the Vintech X73i sounds amazingly close to a Neve 1073... but, that's comparing one real pre with another real pre, and is probably better left for another discussion.)

    Speaking ONLY for myself, if I had purchased a UAD 1073 plug with expectations of it sounding like a real 1073, I would have been greatly disappointed in the results, based on the audio samples that you gave.

    I'm NOT saying that those recordings sounded bad... not at all. They were clean, clear, and with the exception of a gigantic POP on "Pittsburgh" LOL (and perhaps a slightly thick character in the lows-low mids), it was a nice recording, certainly useable for any mix... and, she has a very nice voice, too - with a bit of rasp that I love hearing in female singers that have that character... Bonnie Raitt, Sheryl Crowe, etc., ... But...

    It doesn't sound like a real 1073 mic pre to me, (or a Vintech either, for that matter).

    It sounds like... hmmm...well... pretty "average" sounding to me, and certainly not having the punchy bit silky characteristics/coloration that 1073's are so famously known for. It's kinda funny really, if you go back in time...when Rupert first started designing his pre's, his intent was for more transparency and less coloration, as most of the other go-to preamps/consoles at that time added heavy coloration to the signal. I wonder if he ever considered that his design would one day become known as "sound" in and of itself? LOL

    (even one 1073 to another might sound different, but... they always sound great - or at least I've never worked with or heard one that didn't. ) ;)

    Hey, Chris... if this works for you? Then that's what counts. That's all that counts. You should absolutely use what you like to use, and for your own criteria and reasons. Far be it for me to tell you what you should be using. We all have our own individual preferences. ;)

    IMHO, of course.

    d/
     
  2. Makzimia

    Makzimia The Minstrel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2014
    Location:
    Keighley, England
    Home Page:
    Here's a subject dear and near to my heart, been singing, good I am told, for 44 + years. I know how my voice sounds, pretty well, on recordings. I know what I sang, I still play live gigs. Anyway, I know I joked about the whole using Mic properly and the pop filter. Seriously though, we've had the discussions about GIGO. This is a wonderful example of why we want someone good to record in the first place.

    Now, that being said, IF we have to deal with it after, there are ( I disagree to a certain extent here Chris (audiokid) tools that can do a MUCH better job now, than in the past, of intelligently preempting an issue on set parameters. If you know what it should sound like. Again, that being said, like all tools, it is only as good as the person using it. Also as Donny (the choir master :D ) will say, it's about listening environment too. I am more than willing to concede I have nothing done to date, due to lack of enough work and environment that I can say, I HAVE done it properly if I needed to use the tools.

    Izotope who are definitely at the top of their field in plugins made some significant new tools in Nectar 2 for example. Just throwing it out there as another example of new is not always inferior? :). I have used Nectar 2 a few times, done A/B comparisons as I tool around, and it does a bloody good job.

    Cheers,

    My .02 of what I feel?.

    Tony
     
  3. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2000
    Location:
    BC, Canada
    Home Page:
    NOTE: there are two Chris' here (Perra).(audiokid) ;)

    Everyone has ss to deal with. Lower end ADDA, mic, mic pre's and the performance all have an area (somewhere) that can be addressed from some sort of ss, or edgy metallic bit. . Manually de-essing is choice for the best vocal tracks. Automation is for the lower end gear and performances on a budget, or for those who know no better.
    I use them, but only as a scratch or where i don't really care to take the time to do it better.
     
  4. Makzimia

    Makzimia The Minstrel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2014
    Location:
    Keighley, England
    Home Page:
    And this is why I said to a certain extent. I simply don't have all the gear, or the environment to really say. I just know what I have heard... :(. So far.
     
  5. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2000
    Location:
    BC, Canada
    Home Page:
    This is why I'm sharing all this with us. I've spend easy, half million on gear and the business over the life, Sequoia / Samplitude is the bomb. It way cheaper than what most are spending to even play. A few grand, you are pretty set. If only I had known before. I'd have a bigger boat, thats for sure.
     
  6. Makzimia

    Makzimia The Minstrel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2014
    Location:
    Keighley, England
    Home Page:
    Appreciate that Chris (audiokid) :). Sorry other Chris. Just putting out the fact newer stuff may surprise you. Have you even tried Nectar 2 for example. I use Ozone Advanced, and I know what that does sound wise (even with my less than stellar setup), so with that as a reference of MY level of quality, Nectar 2 stacks very well, in MY environment at least...

    Again really do appreciate your insight, love a good discussion, and I will definitely cede to your superior experience, and others here too :).
     
  7. Chris Perra

    Chris Perra Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Location:
    Toronto
    Home Page:
    That plug in was uads 1073 eq..
     
  8. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2000
    Location:
    BC, Canada
    Home Page:
    Big hug back.
    I'll look at it, thanks.

    I choose to not need extra plugs (the basics) most likely because I have a DAW now that doesn't need all the fuss.. Third party EQ, Comps, de-essers don't get in my machine that I don't need. Specialty code, thats a different story for me, but, I would tend to use it as a separate process outside my DAW and import the finished over running more accumulative crud i don't trust in a machine that is finely tuned.

    I get really excited over big suite's that are HD mastering and beyond. But for basic recording and mixing, simple and less of everything is my idea of better. Reaper, that is killer for what it is but, you need the Walmart plug-in chain added to it which then becomes a problem again. Fabfilter and Reaper, together, thats the bomb for budget goodness! And i love the FabFilter Pro L. Its my go to for mastering.
    But, I put all my money into the front end and very little in the DAW for basic plug-ins. Object Based Editing is all about dealing with the suspect. So, if your music is tracked well, you need less and less running in the background. The more crud in, needs more fixing which mass tend to reach for automated processing.

    Object Based Editing is the bomb. Everyone should try it for a month.
     
  9. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Home Page:
    I agree with audiokid(Chris), if you know how to work basic tools, there's no reason to get a suite like Izotope Nectar.

    Nectar is a good shortcut product that sound ok but it offers nothing we can't do with other tools/automation/editing. ( Plate Reverb, FX, Pitch, Delay, De-Esser, Saturation, Compressors, Gate, EQ, and Limiter)
    it is convenient to have all that at once but for someone who knows how, it becomes limiting. I had the first version until I realised that it didn't sound that good. I tried the version 2 but didn't buy it. At first the harmonisation looked promessing but it sounded far from melodyne which is included in Sonar.

    In the end, what mathers is to make it sound good for you. Using an easy tool the right way is far better than using an advance tool/technic and fail at it.
    I've been putting my money on preamps and mics for the past 2 years, because I learned that getting the source right is better then trying to fix it with any tool (OTB or ITB). Fixing it in the mix doesn't exist, it's more like hidding it if you ask me ;)
     
  10. Makzimia

    Makzimia The Minstrel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2014
    Location:
    Keighley, England
    Home Page:
    Hi Marco,

    I definitely do not consider Chris (audiokid) to be wrong, and nor I right. I just pointed out that there is tech coming up, that in the right hands, can do a great job. There is a VERY strong case for Object based editing obviously, as since the time Samplitude was covered as having, as far back I quickly found, as 2010 (probably longer, only did a quick look), is now in a lot of the bigger DAWs. Including Logic Pro X, which as Donny said to me, does in fact look a lot similar to Samplitude.

    Now Harmony, I have tried that, Nectar 2 does OK, but it's not the greatest. I own an older TC Helicon Vocalist with the voice craft card, a Voice Live 2 and a Voice live touch. Each of those does a better job of harmony, particularly the Voice live 2. Finally I believe I did say earlier, my use of some of these plugins has been scaled back a lot over time. Much more selective. And with my new SSL X-Patch making it's way here, I am going to try to use my outboard gear a lot more efficiently than I have been able to and almost eliminate my need to use plugins of certain sorts.

    Having said that, I too am still a fan of UAD, and no I don't have any actual comparisons either, against the real hardware version. However a: I like that they save on CPU power, and b: they sound a lot better than some of the bog standard stuff floating about. Again my personal opinion of what I have listened to. I look forward to actually trying as audiokid said and doing Object editing. Sadly, I had no sooner gotten some work done on learning Logic Pro X than I had to pack to move, and haven't got anywhere to work at the moment.

    Cheers,

    Tony
     
  11. Chris Perra

    Chris Perra Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Location:
    Toronto
    Home Page:




    I'll try some stuff with the 1073 preamp thing they have and something that has more silk in the performance.. That singer is great,.. nice character and tone but not alot of air going on that characterizes hearing silk. That eq was pretty bumped up to go with the aggressiveness of the song.. Not really in the context of hearing it solo.. I had the 200 hz cranked. so that accounts for the low mid action. On that track I actually used the harrison eq for the real mix and just used the 1073 as a quick demo so you could hear..

    This 1073 plug ins high shelf is pretty aggressive and gritty... I wonder if the actual preamp by itself can use some grit and aggression to get it to stick out in an aggressive mix.. That by itself it would be smooth in the highs and mids and can use more aggressive eq to get it to stick in a mix. I find the 1073 eq plug in to be pretty aggressive.

    If you want I can do a few eq treatments with other ones to show the character of a few.. The Harrison, 88rs, SSl, Helios, Trident, 1081,
    The other thing is I usually will be using some kind of compressor before the eq.. and some kind of reverb. That track is just dry so it doesn't reflect the typical sound I'd be going for.. There's extra things going on from the other plug ins that would give the vocal more character than just eq for me...
     
  12. Chris Perra

    Chris Perra Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Location:
    Toronto
    Home Page:
    Ok I made some more files.. I tried the 1073 preamp thing. and also went through the stages of adding an La2a silver comp and effects that I used on the track. I also added examples of different UAd Eq's.. Using the same Comp and effects each time. only changing the eqs.

    They aren't level matched and the exact eq setting didn't happen for each as some don't have the same eq options frequency wise as others..

    There's a couple weird things, the 1073 preamp I level adjusted so the 10db I added I took back as there's a fader after the eq. So It seems quieter than the rest sort of and the Trident, I don't know what I did,.. I must have juiced the output.

    In general I did a high pass around 50 hz.. a low bump around 100 hz a bump around 4 k or just under and a high shelf around 10 k. To where I though it sounded ok.. They all sound different to me.... some more than others...



    http://www.mediafire.com/?n6vkblzk89ycd
     
  • AT5047

    The New AT5047 Premier Studio Microphone Purity Transformed

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice